Transcript+
What you're telling me is that music is about to stop and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of darkness. 1974198792972000 and whatever we want to call this, it's all just the same thing over and over. We can't help ourselves. I say when we. Sell. Hey, OK, I say when we sell. We got a great one for you this week. We sat down with Zubi. If you're not familiar, you will be by the end of the show. We discussed his background first and foremost and ultimately him growing up in the UK, the Middle East, family ties to Nigeria, how that's shaped his thinking around money, his values, his perspectives on entrepreneurship. We talked about inflation and experience in first hand with his family in Nigeria, the hyperinflation, destruction of currency and why Bitcoin is not just an investment, why it's not like the rest of crypto and really why it is a mechanism for survival and protection. We also talked about breaking away from the status quo. This is really going to be ever more important in the world that we're headed to with AI technology. The sheer amount of layoffs that we've seen just this week alone and really not going to be able to get ahead by being in the status quo anymore. So we talked about needing to build agency control of 1's life, One situation and the asymmetric opportunity of Bitcoin. We ended the show talking about why it will be much easier to go from 100,000 to 1,000,000 than it was from zero to 100 K and why for millennials and Gen. Z in particular, Bitcoin represents a once in a generation opportunity. So hope you enjoyed this episode with Zubi as much as I did. All right, we're back. It's the last trade special guest this week, Zubi and joined by my Co host Michael Tanguma. Zubi, thanks for joining the last trade. Been following your work for a while now and it's, you know, quite a treat. It's kind of surreal to have you on the show. So thanks for joining us today. Happy to be here man, I'm glad you guys are like like my work. So thank you for inviting me. Yeah, for sure. And thanks again. So this is a Bitcoin podcast, as you may or may not know, we tend to be more topical as we were before we hit record here. We'd like to get into the weeds on what's currently happening. I think we're going to get into that a little bit in the back half of the show. But Zubi would love to better understand because you're a, you know, a strong advocate for for Bitcoin, for liberty, economic freedom. And I would love to just understand your perspectives, really how you know. I'm sure it was a long journey to get to where you are today and would love to understand just the high level in terms of your background. How did you start to understand what was actually going on in the financial system? How'd you come to Bitcoin? I think that's just a great place for us to start. Yeah, sure thing. So for I'm going to assume listeners are not familiar with any of my stories, so I'll give a I'll give the quick version of it. So my name is Zubi. By profession I'm an independent rapper, author, host of a podcast called Real Talk with Zubi and I also do public speaking and coaching. I was born in the UKI grew up in the Middle East in Saudi Arabia. My family background is originally from Nigeria. I'm a computer science graduate from Oxford University. I graduated from there in 2007 and by that time I had already started my music career, so for a couple of years I was juggling 2 careers on the side. I worked in management consulting for a while in London and I was also a rapper and in 2011 I took the plunge to go pursue my music full time. So I've been self-employed since October 2011, so about 14 years at this point. I've been employed, you know, it all just started out with the music. From 2011 to 2019, anyone who knew me would have just known me for my music. And then I started to diversify more. I started my podcast in 2019, wrote my first fitness book, and just started to talk more, share more of my views and perspectives about various things going on in the world. And that's when my audience really, really started to grow and millions of people started to discover me. I ended up doing my first time on the Joe Rogan Experience back in 2019, as well as a lot of other major podcast, sort of major podcast, particularly in the US but also in the UK. And over the past six years, you know, the audience has just grown and grown. A lot of people know me for different things. And now when it comes to Bitcoin, I already mentioned that I studied computer science. So I'm someone who's always been interested in technology and the future computers and that whole field. I want to say at first probably heard the word Bitcoin maybe back in like 2012 or 2013 or something like that. But I didn't look into it. I didn't investigate, I didn't pay much attention. I thought it was just like, I don't know some type of payment system like a PayPal or I don't know some in game currency or something. I didn't do any research at that time. Now Fast forward to 2017. I had one friend in particular who I know in the real life, but I was also friends with on Facebook and he was like constantly posting about Bitcoin and he kept like just posting and posting about it. And after being exposed to seeing it a few times, I, I remember I just had one day, this is November 2017. So this is almost exactly, almost exactly 8 years ago. And I, I was like, you know what, let me, I'm going to, I'm going to block out an hour today and I'm going to look into this Bitcoin thing. And I did it. And within about 20 minutes I was like, Oh my gosh, I wish I looked into this earlier. And so I first bought Bitcoin in November 2017. That was the first time I remember it would think it was about $6000 at the time, if I remember correctly. And this was just before the run up into December where it ran from like 6000 to 20,000 in like four or five weeks or something like that. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm a genius, right? Like I've unlocked it. Infinite money glitch. Like look at this. You know, so at the time I, I actually specifically remember I was running one of my pop up shops promoting and selling my, my music and my merchandise. So I was in like a shopping mall in the run up to Christmas 2017 and I was just there like literally selling stuff all day long, selling my CDs, selling my T-shirts, hats, hoodies and so on, and then taking that money and like dumping it into big. And I was just doing that like every single day. And so come December 2017, obviously there was that market top at that time, right? It reached 20,000. Like there was all this euphoria. It was going like just a few weeks after I discovered it was when it kind of hit the peak market euphoria. You see what I mean? So there was this really, it was a bit of a strange time and I wasn't earning a lot of money at the time, right? I'm just like an independent musician in the UK. And then the market started like bleeding out and dumping. Oh, actually I'm, I'm, I'm forgetting an important part here. I want to be transparent. So obviously this is like, you know, this at at this time, it's not just Bitcoin that's going crazy, right? Like the, the whole, the whole market is going crazy, right? Like you. This is when anything that's in the top 100, anything that's in the top like 500, you could kind of just have thrown money into anything and your dollar value is going to increase, at least for this few months. And so there were all these like Icos, you guys remember that, you know, the the initial coin offering hype and all that was going on. And at this time, I'm not like, you know, sophisticated enough to know that, OK, long term, you know, Bitcoin is the winner and things are going to lose against Bitcoin in Bitcoin terms. I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I'm just going to like anything I hear about, I'm just going to like throw a, you know, put, put, put a couple £100 here, a couple £100 there, whatever. Just like buy up the whole top 50, everything that's in the top 50 and anything that sounds interesting, I'm going to throw a little into. And then of course, 2018 comes and there's like the quick alt season and then the market just starts like bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, bleeding. Fortunately, by this time I actually had a lot of conviction in Bitcoin. So even though the dollar price was dropping, I kept accumulating because I started reading books. I remember I read a book called Crypto. First book I read I think was called Crypto Assets. Then I read the Antonio Antonopoulos books. What's it called? What, what's, what's, what's the name? No, I think it's an earlier one. I'm, I cannot remember the name right now, but like I read, I read two of his books. I remember I bought them and I read them and I understood, OK, this is something that has a lot of long term potential. And I remember in 2018 and 2019, early 2019, the thing that was bothering me was like I didn't have enough capital to put into Bitcoin as I wanted to. So I kept stacking. I didn't, I didn't sell anything, right. So what I bought, you know, even if I bought it 17K or 18K6K10K, whatever I just kept, I just kept, you know, accumulating what I could on a, on a regular basis, kind of a dollar cost average strategy. And as time has gone on, my conviction in Bitcoin has just grown more and more. We're talking eight years ago now. It doesn't, doesn't feel like 8 years ago when I, when I kind of first got into this world. But as time has gone on and I've now experienced a couple cycles and the, the highs and the lows of them, my conviction has just grown more and more and just narrowed very specifically into Bitcoin, right. So starting more with the whole like, oh, Bitcoin is cool, but then there's this whole cryptocurrency market and there's like all these other ones and blockchain and so on. And now at this point, I, you know, I don't typically use the term Bitcoin maximalist, but I guess, you know, someone could say that I'm a I'm a Bitcoin maximalist at this point where it's just like, look, out of all of these, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of cryptos are now in this market, but measure it against Bitcoin, everything loses. Yeah, we. So there you go. We like to call them rationalist on this podcast because they create all these pejoratives around understanding sound money and we just we like to refer to them as rationalist. I appreciate you running through that journey because hey, I think it helps indicate some of your kind of like lens of the world that I would like to go a little deeper on before going more on the Bitcoin side. But funny enough, I came in exactly at this time like to the days that you did in November. I remember sitting, I live, I'm from Texas, but was living in New York City. I was working with Adam Newman. Funny enough, I was sitting in orientation for Wework to start and I was just market buying Ethereum. That was the first thing I bought in November ran up and then similar to you, I'd like looked at this within 4 weeks and I was like, this can't all be worth something. And I was able to get all all out of all of it but the funny and into Bitcoin. But the funny part of that story is like right at those tops are really the best time for somebody to get in and gain conviction. It doesn't feel like it at the time, but right at the top you're like, well, what did I do? I got to like almost you get confirmation bias of like, I need to confirm that this wasn't stupid. And as the price is running down, you're getting more convicted, you're increasing your exposure, and then you're solid. The rest of the time. It's the people that are get caught on the way up that end up as exit liquidity because they sell too early to get into the other stuff. They think they're a genius. They never come back. So it's a, it's a funny example, but one thing I wanted to bring up is I'm curious like how back in like call it 17/18/19, your content in your lens of the world, if any has changed and what you're doing today, being a prolific, you know, individual online. And why I asked that is because it's fascinating. It's the closest I've heard in a while of like something like a polymath where it sounds like you're management consulting, wrapping engineering. And the only thing I can come up with so far, because I've been, you know, obviously chatted with you and look deep, is that you have multiple multinational exposure right from Nigeria to the UK. And that generally helps make a well-rounded individual to see and be interested in different things. And I think something there, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, helps. And also see Bitcoin because of Bitcoin being this like quote UN quote platypus that it just pulls so many different things together from how it works all the way to the way it impacts if it does work. Just curious like where that lens of being interested in a lot of things professionally stem from? Yeah, that's a really good question. I think I'd have to go way back. I mean, I've always been a creative person, so when I was a kid, far before I was making any type of music, I actually wanted to be a cartoonist. So if you met me, I don't know if you met 5 year old Doobie, probably between the ages of like 5 and 13 or maybe 14. If anyone asked me, you know, what I wanted to be when I grew up or when I was older, I would have said 100%, I want to be a cartoonist. Want to be a cartoonist for a living. Anyone who knew me as a kid would have known me for always dry, constantly drying, making my cartoons, creating little like comic strips, making my own characters, all of that. So the creative seeds, I think, have always been there. I did play instruments as well. I used to play piano and, you know, even performing recitals. I stopped playing when I was about 13 because I was in boarding school and I just got interested in other stuff and wasn't putting in the putting in the time to practice and keep improving. I played trombone for a while, and so I think the creative seeds have always been there. I've always just enjoyed taking something, just being able to conjure up something in my brain and then make it something real. I think that that's so cool. So whether it's a book, a song, a music album, a merchandise product, like whatever it is, I just love creating things and putting them out there. You know, on a micro level, it can even be a tweet, right? Tweeting is like rapping, except it's way, way, way easier. It's very short. It doesn't even have to rhyme. So when I get people who are like, man, how are you so consistent with like putting out interesting tweets? It's like, I'm a rapper, man. Like this is easy. So I just like doing that. And I love words. I love the English, I love the English language. I love other languages as well. But I just think it's cool to be able to, whether in the written form or in the spoken form, just to be able to communicate a message, like make noises with my mouth that go out there and reach people and it means something to them and it can inspire or motivate them in some type of positive direction. So I, I, I think that's what it is. And like I said, I, I was a full time musician for, for several years, part time for many years before that. And then even after several years of doing that, after eight years of being a full time rapper, I realized I was still leaving a lot on the table because while I love making music and I know how to make music and I know how to perform, I'm actually interested in more than just music. So actually like just being a rapper, I was leaving a lot on the table. So I was like, well, I'm also, I can also write, write like, why don't I make books? I'm interested in fitness. Why don't I make a book to help people with their health and fitness? So that's how I ended up writing my first book. Strong advice which went out there and these, you know, helped a lot of people around the world. And I was listening to quite a lot of podcasts in, you know, 2016, 20/17/2018 and I was like, why don't I, why don't I start my own podcast? I like talking to people. I like talking to people about a range of different subjects and learning and expanding my ideas and bouncing ideas around with people. So I started my podcast Real Talk with Zubi in January 2019 and I've been running that, you know, releasing episodes every week since then. So that I guess that's where it comes from. I think some of it is just innate. It's just my natural personality wiring. But then I'm, I'm very, I'm very people oriented, I guess. So I'm always thinking about like, what I can do that will reach or help or inspire or motivate people in some way in some direction. Help people understand the world a little bit better, help people get in better physical shape, help people have better and stronger and more conducive mindsets and whatever it is that they're doing, or even just help people be able to see things from a little bit of a different perspective. That's one of my favorite things about traveling and meeting and talking to so many people because it just opens your eyes. Like before we started recording, I was talking to Jackson and, you know, he was telling me about his, you know, coming to Dubai a couple of times. And I would imagine that when you visited Dubai, it expands, it expanded your world view, right? You would have had certain preconceptions and ideas perhaps about the city or the country or the entire Middle East as a whole. And then you go there and you spend time and you're like, oh, OK, I need to like, reconfigure a little bit in my brain. And every time you talk to someone, every time you have an experience, every time you go somewhere and you it just increases the resolution of your worldview. So if you kind of just stick in one little corner of the globe and you isolate yourself and you don't talk to many people who are not exactly like you, then you're bound to have what I call like a low resolution worldview, which is like, it's just, it's just very blurry. You might have an idea that other places exist, but your understanding and perception of them is, is not accurate. It's just very blurry. There's going to be a lot of biases. It's all based on hearsay or random things that you've read in the media or someone has told you. But that if you actually go there or you interact with people, then over the course of time, you can you can sharpen up that image a little bit. And I think that's true of everything, right? Like there was a time when none of us had heard about Bitcoin, of course, right? And the first time you hear it, you know you've got a very fuzzy picture, Very, very fuzzy picture. Maybe you've just heard a couple little tidbits, seen some headlines from people. You don't really know what it is. And then the more you learn, the more you study, the more you just spend time in this world, you get a sharper and a sharper and a sharper picture of what it is and why it's important to the point that when you then talk to someone who has that very blurry worldview, even on this particular topic, you're, you're like, what do you even they'll, they'll say things and you're like, what, what, what are you even talking about? And I'm sure you guys deal with this all day long, right? And he's like, you mentioned Bitcoin on a public forum or, you know, to someone who just has not done any, any research on it at all. You could, Oh, it's a Ponzi scheme. Oh, it's exactly the same as a Tulip bubble. Oh, it's, you know, it has no value. Like, like kind of the very typical talking points. It's only used by criminals. And you kind of have to, you know, be patient and try to deal with it. But yeah, that's that's that's a bit of a long answer, but I think all these things are connected. No, well, they're very much are because what I hear in is a lot of internal like looking for the truth, like truth seeking and curiosity, right? That's how you get to like a well-rounded version or understanding the world Bitcoin. But it's funny you bring up Dubai because describing the view of Dubai, you could be talking about Bitcoin in the sense of the same kind of like, not heuristics, but like mental models. A lot of people will patter or have heard, they'll say without ever knowing or ever touching it, right? Without ever buying or ever looking into Bitcoin, saying without ever visiting or doing any research. And I think when you really came on the scene for, for me at least on the radar was a lot of your Dubai tweets about 12 to 18 months ago because we had spent a lot of time out there and you're constantly combating. Well, everyone's saying, oh, it's this, this and that. And then you're there and you're like, this place is, you know, it's not perfect, just like Bitcoin's not perfect, but it's not what everyone's nothing is but what everyone's making it seem. And you see these parallels in Bitcoin because when you start to understand like there's a certain status quo that the market has in keeping things the way they are, whether it's the West, I don't know, vilifying or demonizing in the Middle East is an is a great example, but it's directionally right in the same way. It's like trad 5 villainizing, demonizing Bitcoin and what it is and what it can do. There's reasons for it. And it takes independent thinkers, rational thought to go out and try to express that. And then, you know, we were very short independent thinkers in 2025. And I think that's probably the summary of like how I really respect the stuff you've been putting out. Is because it takes sticking your neck out there for the right people to see it. And I don't think unfortunately, everyone's going to see all this stuff. I, I just think like we're in a renaissance of rational thought and Bitcoins going to help usher that in. But there's so much inertia in the status quo that it's TBD if everyone will kind of move over into understanding the the world and the way it works versus the way it's been kind of like taught to us is working. Yeah, 100%. And you know, I, I believe it's, that's always been true. You know, I just think that's always been the case. This is just one iteration of it, something that came to my mind as you were, as you were were talking there, Michael, what is there? There's something that's kind of funny about it because like a lot of people would know and would consider me to be a conservative thinker, right? Especially in the West. You know, I've spoken at conservative conferences and you know, a lot, a lot of conservative podcasts and so on. And something I've said on a few different podcasts, which which is related, and what you were just saying is that most people are conservative. And when I say that, I don't mean it in a strict political or even a social sense. What I mean is most people are averse to change. Most people seek the status quo and anything that is actually different and kind of like out there, like people are extremely resistant to change. I mean, most people don't even want to move house. Like even if you are like most people don't move house, Most people don't want to move city. Most people don't want to leave the country that they happen to be born in, anything like that. Most people are actually very conservative in their behavior. If you want to see what they're going to, you know, we're all creatures of habit. If you want to predict what someone's going to do tomorrow and what they're going to think tomorrow, you can just look at what they thought yesterday. And that's typically the case. So I think that's why part of why Bitcoin is just so radical and why it's so hard, why it can be so difficult to like orange peel people to use that term, right for to just get people to understand even someone who really, really like needs Bitcoin, right, like someone who it would really, really benefit. It's extraordinarily difficult to get them to not, not even to like buy in, but just to like do the do the research, do the learning. Just, you know what, just suspend what you think you believe and what you think you understand and just humble yourself and just open your mind, open your eyes and just just listen. Maybe like you'll you'll hear all of this and you'll still decide that it's not for you. To be honest, if someone reaches that conclusion, in most cases, I'd say they probably haven't quite understood it if they think like it's totally not for them. But yeah, that's the case. I think it's just that it's that inertia, it's just, you know, people are stuck with the status quo, even if the status quo is not working for them. And they are constantly complaining about it. And there's this sort of escape hatch. Most people still won't take it. And that that can definitely be frustrating. But maybe on a long enough time scale where we'll, we'll reach a phase where far more people will understand it, but even those who don't or who have been opposed to it, we'll kind of be forced to. I could see that happening in the future where, you know, there's not real kind of like there's, I don't know if you're, if at this stage you're still totally resistant to the Internet itself. Sure, you can live and you, you could function right. But like you're, you're kind of forced at this point. You're almost like forced to use the Internet. And I could see that happening with Bitcoin at some point in the future. So yesterday we hosted a client briefing for the month of October. If you haven't participated in one of these events in the past, certainly recommend you to do so. Get in touch with us at onrampbitcoin.com. You can book a consultation with us, but that's not the point of this conversation here. So what I want to call out is inheritance. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because we surveyed the attendees of our briefing and 42% of those who attended said that inheritance planning was their biggest concern or the biggest pain point. It ultimately the thing that they needed to solve is related to their Bitcoin ownership. So with Onramp, we solve for that very cleanly, simply, quickly. You can name beneficiaries directly on your multi institution vault. This ensures that your family has easy access. It's not a question of handing off a seed phrase or a device or multiple seed phrases. And it's also not a question of them getting access to an exchange account that is not legally titled to them. So as you know or may not know, you have a segregated multi institution vault with on ramp titled in your name or could be in your trust name and you're able to designate beneficiaries directly on the account. And this ensures the seamless transition of assets and the legal title to your family. You don't need to do any comprehensive estate planning to do this. This can be done in minutes. So if you're concerned about inheritance, feel free to reach out on rampbitcoin.com and book a consultation. Yeah, there's a lot of great points there. And I was curious to tie in a few things because Zubi, you said at the start of the show that you graduated as a computer science major from Oxford in 2007. And then you also made a point just now that people are typically resistant to change and to tie a few themes together. I'm curious if graduated in 2007 at really the start of the great financial crisis, I'm not sure if that impacted you at all or if that impacted any of your peers or family or friends. And then also to tie that into just the idea that like pain sometimes could be one of the best teachers, right? And so Bitcoin, in many cases, it isn't about whether people want to embrace it. It may be more about the need of having to embrace it. And information and circumstances are changing over time in the sense that the economy, the economic outlook of the United States and many of the Western nations is continuing to get worse. Inflation remains elevated. And purchasing power, which is ultimately the most important thing, can people actually preserve their wealth? Many people are struggling to do so and their wealth is being eroded over time. And so I'm curious if like at any part in your journey, whether it was back in 2007 or if it was in 2020, how did pain, whether you experience it directly or you saw it first hand with family and friends specifically in like the financial sense or the economical sense, maybe shape your worldview and influence your thinking on Bitcoin? Yeah, that that's a really good question, Jackson. OK, let me let me let me answer it this way because I think maybe my background and my global perspective plays a role here. So as I mentioned before, even though I haven't lived there myself and I didn't grow up there, my family is originally from Nigeria. OK. So as I understand it, my parents have told me this history because they've been alive for much longer than I have. But when Nigeria gained its independence from the UK, I believe that the Nigerian naira was equivalent in value to the British pound, right? It was 1 to 1. Today, I don't even know. Can someone Google what the exchange rate is between the the British pound and the Nigerian naira? Let's see what it is today. It's about 2000 to 1, so 1002 thousand naira. OK. And we know that the pound itself has lost more than 50% of its value within that same time frame. So whilst I have not experienced hyperinflation myself, I have seen in my own lifetime, I remember when I was a kid and the naira was something like I think it was like 50. I remember being like 50 naira to 1 LB and then 100 naira to 1 LB and then 500 and then 1000 and now it's like 2000 and something. And I have lots of family back home in Nigeria and Nigeria is not even like the worst country economically in Africa let let alone in the world. I remember actually funnily enough when I was in my mid teens, I had a couple of friends in my school who were from Zimbabwe and I'm sure you guys know about the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe. I remember my friends coming into school with 100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar notes and I was like, dude, like you've got $100 trillion note. Like, what can you buy with that? And he's like, dude, nothing. Like you can't buy anything with this. Like I think their inflation hit. What was, I think their inflation hit like a quadrillion percent or something like some unfathomable number. To this day, they still don't have a proper currency, right? Like, and this is decades ago. So I have seen inflation and the damage and pain it's caused, not just in the West where we have quote UN quote, stable and strong currencies like the US dollar and the British pound, which have also been merked. But when you see people dealing with the the Nigerian naira, the Zimbabwean dollar, the Turkish lira in recent years and you just see the pain that it causes, it makes something like Bitcoin more obvious. There's a reason why Nigeria is one of the top countries consistently for Bitcoin usage and interest. I think Turkey is also up there as well. So in many ways, it's actually easier to explain Bitcoin and its value to someone in Africa or certain parts of Asia than it is, or maybe South America than it is to a typical Brit or Australian or Canadian or American. Because in the West we have this weird, I think it's called a region beta paradox, where there is pain and people are feeling the pain, but the pain is not significant and immediate enough for them to make a change. So everyone complaints about the results of inflation, right? Everyone doesn't matter where they are in the political spectrum, doesn't matter how wealthy they are. Everyone is like, man, like just compare the prices now to what things used to cost like 10 years ago and it's crazy. Even five years ago, everyone can see, you know, people using terms like cost of living crisis. There are people, you know, trying to blame it on corporations or this or that. But really what it is, is just infinite money printing, right? We know how this works. Pounds, dollars, EUR, yen, it doesn't matter what it is. They just keep printing and printing and printing. So every month, every year, the value of those currencies is going down. So the reason I was so quickly sold on Bitcoin, once I actually looked into it and understood it, is I already had a decent awareness of the problems of the central banking money systems and the ravages and damage that inflation can cause. So when I'm reading and I'm hearing that there is a currency that is limited in number, that is decentralized, that is not owned or controlled by any government or central bank, which you can use, you can, you can send, you can buy, sell peer-to-peer without a middleman all across the world 24 hours a day. Where do I sign up? Like for me, for me, it was like a very easy sell because I already had like the, I was already kind of geared to accept Bitcoin, right? Because I wasn't coming from the perspective of, oh, like the current financial system is perfectly fine. So what took me a little while to get my head around was the idea of something digital being limited because that's different. We're used to everything that's digital being, you know, you can copy and paste to Infinity. So the idea of something being digital but limited, I was like, oh, that's, that's new, that's different. But apart from that, it made, and it continues to make Bitcoin like a very obvious play to me. Yeah, I mean, that makes a ton of sense and thank you for sharing that. And you know, while we haven't in the US lived through anything like that in terms of hyperinflation just yet, the, the pain that we're experiencing in the US, you know, in the UK even, you know, in other, in other countries. I don't know if how the UA ES inflation's been over the past couple of years, but I imagine it's not immune to it just like any economy isn't because. The the Durham is it's tied to the it's, it's tied to the dollar, it's back to the dollar. So then it is, yeah, it's being devalued as well. And so, yeah, I mean, it ultimately does become just, I think a a matter of economic financial survival and Bitcoin really insulates people from the pain that they're otherwise going to experience. I mean, just first hand looking at insurance premiums on, you know, homes, on health insurance, on vehicles, cost of living as it relates to rent, to buy, to purchase groceries. I mean night and day, what that looks like even just five years ago. And so for me personally, this was part of the reason why I was curious to hear your perspectives on that was because I didn't fully understand, I didn't fully understand this until like 2020 or 2021. And maybe I still don't fully understand it either, but I understand it a whole lot better than I did before. I experienced 40% of the dollars being created in about an 18 month span, right? So this is the unfortunate reality that we live in, but you also, we all are living in the same circumstances and we all have the access to the same amount of information and the ability and the tools and technology that exists online. And so I'm curious, one of the pieces that you had published recently, Zubi was just specifically for Gen. Z men and your life advice to them. And one of the things was learn about Bitcoin. And I'm curious, just like how do you think about the younger generations and the the importance of embracing Bitcoin relative to, you know, my perspective is equities, real estate, all the other asset classes are at all time highs, as is Bitcoin, right? Everything's at all time highs. But the difference is that Bitcoin is still a $2 trillion asset. It provides a lot of properties that are inherently unique to it as a form of money that cannot be debased, it can't be seized and confiscated. Whereas the other asset classes sit at the 10s of trillions, hundreds, hundreds of trillions of dollars. Far harder to actually preserve and grow wealth there then it may be for Bitcoin. That's still new and has, you know, very limited amount of adoption globally so far. Yeah, sure. Well, look, I think in every generation there is a significant and unique investment opportunity. Obviously for boomers all across the West, it was it was real estate, right? Like people who were able to buy houses decades ago, almost like no matter where you bought it or what you bought, like there was a time where it was like you, you almost just you could, you couldn't really go wrong. For my generation, millennials, and I'd say the generations above and immediately below it, the opportunity, you know, for Gen. X for sure, there was a big opportunity with like the whole, the whole Internet boom, all of the, the tech stocks and all of that. Like a lot of people in that generation were able to ride that wave. And I think for millennials and Gen. Z, Bitcoin is really that play. It doesn't mean that it's only accessible to them, But we're more millennials aren't just aren't digital natives per SE, because we're kind of like we're the last generation that was kind of experienced life half before the Internet and half after it becoming ubiquitous. Same with smartphones, whereas with Gen. Gen. Z and younger, like they're truly digital natives. So the idea that someone in Gen. Z, like a lot of people are gold bugs, for example. And I think gold is the second best form of money that's ever existed. But the idea that like Gen. Z or Gen. alpha are going to be like super invested in gold. Like to me, it's just it's just obvious that Bitcoin is like going to be for them. Like for those who choose to do a little bit of research and understand it. And also if you want to talk about accessibility, this is again something that a lot of people don't understand. Oh, it's too late to buy Bitcoin. I don't have a hundred 1000 plus dollars. It's like we're still so early that people don't realize that Satoshi's exist and that you can invest $1.00, five dollars, $10, however much you want to invest or buy, you can. And so there's never been something that's like more democratic than that when it comes to investment opportunities. You don't need to be an accredited, accredited investor with a high net worth. You don't need to be in a certain part of the world. You don't even need to have like a bank account. You don't even need to have a bank account to buy Bitcoin. You could literally be in like a village in Nigeria with your like mobile phone and you, you can, you can buy and you can hold Bitcoin. You could be in Vietnam, you could be, you could be anywhere and there's nothing else that's like that. Even normal stocks you need to buy, you need a brokerage account. You probably need an address, an e-mail address. You probably need a bank account so that you can transfer money in and out. You need like there's a lot of barriers to entry. Whereas with Bitcoin it's literally for everybody. You could be a 7 year old and you know, you, you could buy and you could hold, you could, you know, cool, I'm going to put my 5 bucks into Bitcoin and I'm going to hold that. So that's why I think the, the term that comes to my mind when I think of this for everybody, but especially for younger generations, is just the concept of a of an asymmetric bet. OK. So even if someone doesn't have 100% conviction, and I think it's probably hard to get 100% conviction until you're already, until you already own some Bitcoin and you have for a while, like the the potential upside of having some versus the almost inevitable downside of not having any. Again, it just strikes me as like something that is that, that that's quite obvious, right? It's just like, why, Why wouldn't you like it fast? Let's Fast forward 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, someone who's 15 years old right now, 10 years time, they're going to be 2520 years time, they're going to be, they're going to be 35. They have the power to put themselves in an significantly better position via Bitcoin, which which didn't exist before, you know, this opportunity wasn't there before. Bitcoin is still going to be there in 20 years. And so not just for them, but for all of the generations after for their future children. This is why I'm just so bullish, right? This is why This is why I'm I'm an advocate for Bitcoin because it's not just about like money. It's not just about having numbers. It's not just about number go up, right? That might be the thing that attracts people in, but it's like, why do we even need money to begin with? We need money because we need to survive. We need shelter, we need to buy food. If you want to have a family and raise children, it costs money. If you want to be able to pay for healthcare or emergencies or you want to be able to travel to to do anything, whether or not someone likes it, you know you, you need to have money. So if you're going to have money in the world, which we have done for millennia, thousands and thousands and thousands of years, we've had money in different forms. Why would you not choose one that works in your favor rather than against you? Why? Why base everything on something that some random person, not even an elected person, right? Like a small group of individuals somewhere can quite literally just hit a button and they can hit a button that just drops the value of all of your savings and earnings by 10 percent, 20%, Fifty percent, 90%. Like, hello. Yeah. So that's that's the way I view it, man. Yeah, there. There's two things to call out or pull on there. One of them is, I love the notion of asymmetric, but I've used that a lot and I've started to think about it. It's in a different form because I think the way you're referencing it and the way I historically had was it's asymmetric into the upside and then obviously the downside risk. So the upside is in your purchasing power increases to the point you made 10 percent, 20% loss in purchasing power to the downside. But I think what's even more pronounced is the fact that you don't even know if your counterparties in this new world are solvent because the amount of debt that exists in the system, no matter what country you're in, what investment you are. So you don't even know if it's 10% or if it's zero. Because where we're going, there's going to be a lot more goose eggs in people's allocations, whether it's the bank doing a bail and shutting down. I don't think fully people appreciate that. The other thing you referenced, and so the notion of financial literacy and unit bias, I think they are huge problems for Bitcoin in the sense of we run a Bitcoin. We're I think the only one still today Bitcoin denominated venture firm. And one of the things that I've wanted to invest and I've called out and I'm going to call it out here again is I want to like SAT's denominated global exchange. It can be a regional exchange, but there needs to be something where somebody can buy $5 or $500 and see a certain number of Satoshi's. Like they see an altcoin go in their wallet and see that price appreciation all the way down to individuals in their Piggy Bank being able. Their parents can set them up and then click a button. They can see their sats and instead of going by the cookie or whatever it is, they see that value appreciation and they can learn to save. Because I think that is like the true lacking thing from there's been that there was a line of demarcation between like millennial and Gen. Z around savings when you remember you can get some nominal form of capital in a savings account where today that doesn't exist. And so people conflate investing with effectively gambling. And that's the big problem with like most people look at Bitcoin as crypto and a trade. And these are just fundamental like aspects of Society of like, if you don't know and you can't say even have optional and in the future, you're kind of just rugged. You rub yourself because you can't build, you can't plan, you can't go and think about getting married, having children, anything, building a business. So yeah, they're important aspects that I think are still so foundationally, like broken, and they're the other side of Bitcoin. It's hard to see Bitcoin if you don't understand that. Like they're different things than investing and then just storing wealth. Yeah, absolutely. Very good point. On Ramp has launched a new flat pricing structure as you can see here. This is from our client briefing that we held yesterday. The gist of this new pricing structure that you'll want to be aware of is that we're moving from percentage based fees that grow with your Bitcoin price to flat page pricing based on your Bitcoin balance. So why is this benefit to you? Well, you have predictable monthly or annual costs, you have protection against the Bitcoin price rising, and you have an IRA included in your account as well. So really the goal here at Onramp is to continue to pack in more value at a lower cost for you. And so we're excited to announce the flat base pricing that is Bitcoin denominated, not dollar denominated, so giving you far more certainty into the future about what your costs will be and no longer having to worry about percentage based fees. So if this is of interest to you, reach out on rampbitcoin.com, book a consultation or shoot me a note Jackson at on rampbitcoin.com. You know, one thing that caught our attention this week was just the search of layoffs that is happening at the largest employers here in the US and, and multinational corporations, you know, employing people all over the world. And yeah, there's a couple ways to to slice this. The first is that there are a lot of people who are now fearful that they're next on the chopping block and for good reason, right? I mean, this is when you look at this numbers, you have UPS, Amazon, Intel, Nestle and Accenture in the top five and probably accounted for in these 15 companies, 100,000 layoffs that just happened recently. And so naturally, a lot of people are in a position of fear and they don't want to be next and for good reason, right? Because this is ultimately how they're getting their livelihood, feeding their family, you know, being able to do whatever they like to do. The flip side of it is there's actually a really encouraging aspect of this as well, as funny as it may sound, because, well, this is ultimately signalling to me is the fact that for people who are more entrepreneurial minded, there is going to be more and more asymmetric opportunities to start a business or to join a business that is taking full advantage of all the technology in the rapid rate of, you know, artificial intelligence, to name one. In terms of how much you can do as a business that used to require 10 people, that may only require one or two. And so I don't know if you guys agree with me necessarily. Like, I don't know how this is going to shake out in the next 5 to 10 years because there's going to be a lot of people who lose their jobs. But there's also going to be a ton of opportunity for those who can think adversarially, think proactively, and can embrace technology and really have an opportunity to bring their ideas into the real world and to start a business. Like I just think of myself in middle school or high school, just having have different ideas for like an app, an, an app or a website or, or things like that. And some things I pursued, others I didn't, or most of them I would hit a roadblock in the sense that I didn't really have a technical background and the ability to really act on any of these ideas. And so now I think of firms like Replit or Lovable, or you can code up a landing page or you can code up an app in one day if you want to do so. And so I'm curious like what you guys think of it. Zubi, I really love, you know, you're just mindset in general. You're such a positive person. And I think we need to have more people like you who are able to like take a look at something like this, but really think about more critically how this could end up being a good thing for people. So I'm curious what your thoughts are there. Yeah. Do you, do you want, do you want to know what worries me? Yeah, I'm naturally a very optimistic and positive person. And what you've just shown me is actually one of the things that does genuinely concern me a lot. So I have a kind of a double concern because when I get concerned as an optimist, it makes me think, oh gosh, like this could be really bad. Like if I think this is not good, this could be really bad. What what worries me with this, let let's say the trend towards automation or AI replacing people's jobs and so on. What what doesn't concern me is like the Super long term perspective. What worries me is the short to midterm transition period. So as you mentioned, there are people who are very entrepreneurial and they have that type of mindset and they're self starting and they're go getters and they're proactive and they're creative. I'm not worried about them. I also know human beings enough to know that that is not the majority of the population. So I do have a concern if these types of layoffs are happening or this is to accelerate, I do have a big concern for just kind of like the typical person or the typical family of what they're going to do. I don't know, I don't know, like, I hope, I hope that, I hope this is 1 area where I really want to be wrong. Like I want to be wrong. And I, I hope that it's like, I hope that it's rosy. I, I just think that I'm, I'm worried about the speed and the acceleration that this could happen and people not having the time to adjust. As we've said, you know, people are, people are slow to change and I don't think that there are enough. I don't know what exactly needs to be in place, but I, I don't think there's enough in place and I don't think enough sort of thinking has necessarily been done as to, OK, if as many people are predicting, you know, even someone like an Elon Musk, who's very good at seeing the future, if he is predicting that, you know, millions of people's jobs could be replaced by AI and so on. Let's say that prediction is accurate and that is to happen. I'm not, I'm not convinced that we have like a good solution and plan for that. I think people are kind of kind of saying like, oh, this will happen and it'll be OK for some people because, you know, they'll take advantage of all this stuff. But it reminds me a little bit of the kind of learn to code thing where it's like assumed that everyone is going to kind of very quickly be able to adapt and just kind of reconfigure around this new world. And I'm just not so sure about that. So I want to be wrong. I'd love to be like overtly optimistic on this one, but of all the sort of potential threats that are coming down the pipeline, this is one that genuinely I'm not worried for everybody, but I'm worried for a lot of people. Yeah, I echo that sentiment. I'm pretty even killed positive and and negative, optimistic, pessimistic when I think it makes sense. And this is one that's really, it's accelerating fast. Like yesterday, seeing it today, it just came out that Google is giving like a voluntary kind of leave if you want to take off and whatever severance. The reality is when it when I was looking into this last night that nobody can actually put their finger on why Amazon's laying people off. Like a lot of people are saying it's for AI compute and to basically take those dollars they're spending on a per hour basis for employees and move them to data centers. Other people are saying XYZ, it's already a automation. I'm fairly confident it literally has to do with they understand inflation. They understand inflation's persisting and their unit economics are broken and they have to figure something out. Like it's just as simple as that. It's only going to accelerate. And then to Zooby's point, people are not equipped with the agency like Jackson was. Very, I think you're probably positively being optimistic and, and maybe slightly wishful thinking, but the reality is people just don't have the agency that you described. This is what Zerp has provided Zerp coupled with management consulting, coupled with technology companies, you kind of got almost paid to not work. They call it the golden handcuffs for a reason. In Silicon Valley, they have the, the part where they you put, they put you on the roof. There's a whole shortage or whole slew of people that have worked at these large companies that actually do not know how to do anything outside of their exact sliver. And this reckoning is coming and it's going to be very dark, very weird. The, the, the best mental model I've had is we end up with like this stablecoin Ubi stuff that's going to get started porting out to people. And people are going to have to like, get some money from the government in that way globally, but they're also going to be basically exposed to any whims or requirements that you need to access whatever. And this kind of ties in AI and AI being naturally inflationary with the amount of energy. And I kind of see AI end up being like a public utility type of good. But then you need these like, tokens to use it, which are these stable coins. But to Zubi's point, like this is happening too fast. People are not prepared for it. And I think these layoffs are effectively the largest, most sophisticated institutions understanding that not only is inflation persistent, margins are compressing and they have to get ahead of this or their businesses. They're going to rug their whole business because what existed or worked before paying somebody's 80,180 thousand is not going to work in a highly leveraged economy very high in debt. We have to print more to keep it going. They they're not dumb. They know inflation is continuing to run. It's only increasing from here. Just given the way the structural setup has happened post 2020. So it's not, it's actually not positive. The best things, I think from a from a perspective is you want to hold a hold a higher. It's a harder form of money in a deflationary world, especially around technology, because that currency is going to allow you to buy more and more services. It's also going to allow your savings to go further, because if you're sweeping more of your nest egg, your retirement or your just personal account into that, that's going to insulate you in some respect. The other side is to become, you know, a joke like ungovernable become, you know, get some agency, like figure out you, you tools, figure out how to build things. Look at, you know, what Zubi, the portfolios put together like anybody can do this, but it truly requires independent, rational thought. And again, we talked about it early. It's just most people are lacking it because we've kind of been bred in this society to not do any of that. And it's going to be time. It's it's, I liken it to gravity or going to a different planet, basically like if you go into a sound money planet where you have to build businesses, it goes back to accountability and meritocracy. And that's not what we've been in the past 30 to 50 years. And it's just going to be very disruptive for a lot of people. And then a lot of people are going to be able to thrive because they have that agency. But it's going to be very, it's going to be a bumpy, volatile ride. Yeah, it will be very destructive. The outcomes are going to look different depending on who you are as a person, where you live and your generation as well. I think it ties back into Zubi some of the points you made for Gen. ZI mean sounds pretty bleak in terms of both of your perspectives. And maybe I'm giving a little bit too much credit to high agency people. And and the reality is that to you guys point, a lot of people aren't like that. A lot of people are just, you know, career man, career woman, want to work the 9:00 to 5:00, be able to spend time with their family. And not everyone wants to start a business. Not everyone wants to take risk. And, and I can appreciate that. I can also appreciate the fact that those layoffs are going to be incredibly disruptive and very challenging to people that are more established. So if you have a family and you're, you know, in your 40s, fifties, 60s, and you have a lot of financial responsibilities and that's going to be a lot more stressful and there's going to be a lot more worry about a potential impact to your life than if you're, you know, 15182225, right? And you have less responsibility. You're likely not married, you don't have children, and maybe you don't have that much debt, I mean, depending on what your circumstances are. So that will ultimately allow you to be in a really good position. And so, you know, I don't know how to fully parse that out, but it's almost like, yeah, I think the millennials, Zubi, you and Marty talked about on your podcast, some millennials have had a tough go at it in terms of just things that have happened over the course of their lives. But every generation has challenges that they have to face. And Gen. Z have been, you know, growing up in a world where there's just a lot of political tension. There is just instability in markets that previously were fairly stable. And the economy outlook is maybe more uncertain than it ever has been, at least in in quite a long time. But the, you know, where I'm trying to stay optimistic is at least for the people that felt like the odds were always against them. And they're growing up in a world where it's like, how am I ever going to be able to own a house, get married, have children, do the things that I want to do, travel the world, whatever it may be. Well, you know, if you have Michael, to your point agency, if you can think creatively, if you can surround yourself with the right people that also can think like this as well, then there may be really a big opportunity here ahead for for those that can do that. Yeah, I, I think increasingly you can't just kind of accept the default you you can't just kind of do what do what the majority do. You know, I, I think we've lived in this for most of my life, right? If you just eat how the typical American eats, like you're going to get fat. If you just treat money the same way you spend it, go into debt, use credit cards the same way, kind of just like most people do, or just kind of just do the default thing like you're, you're going to get in trouble. I think maybe, you know, I didn't exist in this time, but you know, maybe if you could go back to like the 1950s or the, you know, certain times like you, you could kind of just do what most people were doing and you it would be OK. Like it would be all right. Like you'd be healthy, you'd get married, you'd have kids, you'd be able to buy a home, whatever. Like you could, you didn't need to think outside the box too much. I think increasingly, and this is something, you know, I particularly would want to stress to to younger people, like you mentioned, Jackson is like, I just think increasingly you're going to have to think outside of the box and do things a little bit differently and atypically in order to not just survive, but in order in order to thrive. Like if you really want to be successful, however you measure that, if you want to be successful, if you want to be healthy, you're going to have to do things a little bit differently. You know, if you're on social media like most adults are in the world, if you want to have a healthy social media experience and you don't want the smartphones and the algorithms to fry your brain, you have to be quite intentional. You can't just be like mindlessly doom scrolling and falling into every otherwise like it, it, it's going to affect you and you see it affecting people. You see it hurting people's attention spans, right? They're just getting that TikTok brain and they can't concentrate and they're constantly feeling anxious or angry or upset because they're kind of just being pushed around by the algorithm and pushed about by the device as a wider perspective. And this comes on to the AI and automation thing as well as I, I'm generally A believer. Like I'm not in control of the world. Of course not. And I wouldn't want to be. But I'm generally A believer that, you know, technology should serve humanity rather than the other way around. And I do have some concerns that we're kind of moving to a point where a lot of people who are making decisions and who are in positions of power are kind of losing sight of that. And they're not thinking of like, OK, how can this technology like really, really make life better for tons of people? And we're moving into the stage of people are just kind of like doing things because it can be done. And it's just like, let's just chase that and go down that. And to go down that without just pausing and, and thinking of like, OK, why are we doing this? What guardrails do we need to put in place? How are we going to handle the transition? And I, I say this all as someone who's like generally very like pro technology for the most part, but if a technology is going to just be harmful to people, let's say like, if it's, if it that, then I, that's why I'm, I'm just like, well, why are we doing it? Or when there's a lot of debate to be had about the upside versus the downside. I just think that's where we are. And like, I think so much of it is happening so quickly. I mean, even if I just go back, like let's just go back to like 2018-2019, you know, pre pre pandemic, this wasn't on, this wasn't on many people's radars. Like these conversations were not happening a lot even 7-8 years ago, right? You hear the way people like are now talking about AI and this and that. Like you know, if you said ChatGPT to someone in 2019, like what the heck is that? You know what I mean? So the speed of it is, is, is pretty crazy. Just like how quickly things are changing. We've seen a lot of technological changes in our lifetime. But yeah, I don't know. I don't, I don't know what the answer is. I think we're going to have to kind of watch it play out. Like I'm not, I'm not in control of this. So I don't know how it plays out. But I would certainly recommend to people to like, stay nimble, be good at learning, and be willing to think outside of the box and perhaps take some unorthodox paths which might be quite different from the path your parents, great grandparents, and great grandparents took. Yeah, reminds me of a favorite coil. It what's obvious is obviously wrong. I think using that as a heuristic is generally pretty good. It's the randomly Bezos had this quote, they'd ask him how he came up with his insights and he said that every time he read the board meetings or whatever shareholder, like any meeting he went into, he would read the memo as every line, line by line, it was wrong until he could prove it was right. And that's how he'd come up with interesting ways. So it's just like looking at like inverting basically everything. I think the one thing that is actually incredibly positive is that if we take the directional heuristic that on. Long enough time frames power and technology effectively decentralizes like the fractal, like people get more empowered. Whether you think well, like gunpowder, printing press, Bitcoin, anybody can open up a bank account similar with like AI models and technology and the Internet and your voice being able with a smartphone. Obviously, it works two sides, 2 two ways. But if you take that notion, I think a lot of the things we're talking about are from a Western bias, right? Where we grew up, where we understand it's going to be very disruptive to the status quo of somebody that was a management consultant making $120,000 a year. Now it's automated, and does he know how to do anything else? But the flip side of that is there's billions of people that don't live in that world and they're going to get exposed to a lot of asymmetric tools when it comes to the Internet, AI in Bitcoin that are going to be able to live in americratic world where they're going to be able to live by the the things they produce and create value, protect it. And that is, to Zubie's point earlier on a long enough time horizon, this ends up as the like the panacea, the, the, the medicine we had to take to get back to just more congruent world or way of the universe is supposed to be without centralized control of, you know, capital effectively. And that's a form of, you know, you could say kind of slavery when you think about it, because if you can create the money and create how people need to work to get the money, you ultimately control them. That's the thing nobody talks about. And so I do think that there's a positive aspect to this, but for certain individuals, it's just not going to be positive. And you got to know that and be preparing for it. Yeah. All right, so if you're enjoying the episode, please leave a like a comment, subscribe or rate 5 stars if you haven't done so already. As you know, because I say it every week, there's a lot of time that goes into booking guests, preparing for the episode, recording, editing, distributing the podcast. And so if you're able to leave a like, able to leave a comment, this will actually get our video, our podcast out to more people. It'll help more people discover on ramp. And so if you're thinking we're doing a good job and you want more people to hear about us and tune into the show, just leave us a like and a comment. That's all you got to do subscribe. That all really helps. I'm very appreciative of it. I really like to read the comments every week and respond to as many as I can. So thank you all for being here and hope you enjoy the rest of the show. Zubi, I know you have to run. We're coming up on the hour here. If you have just like two or three more minutes, I would love to hear before we let you off the hook. You mentioned in a tweet recently that going from 100K to a million is much easier than going from zero to 100 K. And I, I inferred maybe there's a couple of different ways you could infer what that means. I inferred it was related to the Bitcoin price. And so I'm curious just if that was the case and why you were motivated to say that? It's true financially, it's true of followers on social media or anything like that, and I think it's true of the Bitcoin price as well. I think it's really the power of compounding and the power of knowledge and just the path that things tend to take. Like many things in the world are not linear the right like even when it comes to technology, there's that S curve, right? So it's not it's not like a linear growth. Things go through this S curve. So it can take, you know, let OK, well, I mean, we, we can talk in real terms, OK, let's say we are talking about Bitcoin. It took 16 years to go from zero to 100,000. I don't think I could be wrong. I don't think it's going to take another 16 years for it to, to, to do it, to do a 10X from this point when it comes to, you know, my own experience on social media, it took me, it took me, I joined Twitter in 2009 and I hit 20,000 followers. I remember specifically February, February 28, 2019, it took me, it took me 10 years to get to 20,000 followers. And then two years later I hit a million. And I'm not like the only one who does this trajectory. A lot of people who have become millionaires will say, yeah, it took, it was harder to go from zero to 100 K because you like, you don't, you're not working with, you're not working with anything, right? It's just a grind. Everything's against you. There's a sort of escape velocity where once you have like if you, if someone has 100,000 to invest in anything, let's say, then it's not that hard to turn that 100,000 into A110120150. But if you're just starting out and you're like, you have 100 bucks to your name or you're even in debt, you're in the negative. It's just a lot, lot harder to grind up to that point where you can start to make the capital work for you, right? If you want to take an extreme end, I mean, you see, you know, look at where some of these like billionaires already. I mean, if you already are, if you're already worth like hundreds of millions or billions, then what's making another $1,000,000? Like you can, you can literally do it in a day just by like having, having, having like just earning interest on your, on your account or whatever it is. So, so anyway, the, the, the, the tweet was intentionally vague. I did want people to apply their own bias to it because I knew, all right, some people are going to think this is about followers. Some people are going to think this is about Bitcoin. Some people are going to think this is just about money, whatever it is. So it's intentionally vague, but I think that there's truth to it applied to a lot of different scenarios. So that's why I put it out there. I just thought it was interesting. We've got my attention. Well, Zubi, I know it's late for you over in Dubai. Thanks for joining us today. Glad to have finally met you been following the work for a while. So thanks for all that you do. And for anyone who you know isn't accounted for in that million followers on Twitter. Or do you want people to reach out to you or follow along? Yeah, sure. You can find me on all social media at Zuby Music. That is ZUBY Music. I'm on X Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, all of them at Zuby Music and if you like what I do then you can check out all of my work on. I mean both my music and podcasts are all over YouTube, all over Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you choose to listen. If in doubt, just search my name Zubi ZUBY and you will find me. Thanks Zubi, it was a pleasure. Love it. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that Onramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private client advisors.
Transcript source: fountain