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What you're telling me is that music is about to stop and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous extra ever assembled in the history of darkness. 1974198792972000 and whatever we want to call this, it's all just the same thing over and over. We can't help ourselves. I say when we sell. Hey, OK. I say when we sell. Everyone, thanks for tuning in to a special episode of The Last Trade. We have a very big announcement today. We're launching Honor and Bitcoin Dynasty Trust services. We think this is a very large and significant milestone in the industry. For anybody that's been falling on along to the space or is a Bitcoin investor, there's generally been 2 main problems for large holders of Bitcoin or anybody that has material allocations to the investment. It's either generally a very opaque industry to figure out how do they legacy plan and get the appropriate trust for their family and long term generational wealth planning. Or there's very large holders that have been holding hundreds if not thousands of Bitcoin for many years and the products and services haven't mapped to what they need. And the reason why is because ultimately to get the best financial services around legacy planning really requires trusting a single custodian. Anybody that is sophisticated in this space, there's very, you know, well regarded firms that work with significant, you know, clients, very large balances in the hundreds of millions of dollars. They generally will require their clients to park it with a single entity from a compliant and regulated perspective. That ends up. Providing a huge gap in the market because generally clients or investors that have held Bitcoin for a long enough time horizon know that you can't trust a single custodian. So it's ultimately left them with a very big gap. Not being able to get access to the best in class financial services and wealth planning that generally wealthy people are familiar with and have exposure to. So what does it really mean and what is honored Bitcoin dynasty trust services? Well, the first part is we use South Dakota trust charter partner which is first covenant trust and advisors or multi billion dollar firm. That. Focuses on traditional assets that we've partnered with. But taking it a step further, South Dakota has some of the best creditor and generational planning laws in the country, if not the best. And so whether it's some of the key aspects that large holders care about, which is privacy on perpetuity. So making sure that these engagements and contractual walls last for hundreds of years and then really asset protection. So being as you gain significant wealth, protecting against creditors, lawsuits, and things that might occur as that wealth grows, individuals for better or worse, end up as targets. And then really one. Of the biggest ones is tax avoidance and wealth preservation. As you look through, we'll link to a report. On our main website, there is some significant savings that come into play when it comes to using some of the gift tax exemptions and death tax exemptions as it relates to parking assets in a trust. But the beauty. Of this and what historically had been in place and what keeps a lot of Bitcoin holders away from these products and services ultimately ends up as centralized custody, which traditionally had been the only model to get access to these kind of services. And then the other side. Is really directing control of those assets. As individuals that have held and adopted Bitcoin, we understand the notion of sovereignty and the flex, the ability that comes with the asset and its purchasing power. Well, now with this kind of product offering, having the ability to direct the trust and still manage those assets is available to our clients in the market in general. And so it really ends up as a no brainer for anybody with significant wealth or planning to manage this asset for generations. We're going to talk a lot about this in the podcast. We'll have a lot more material coming, but would encourage anybody to reach out, book a consultation, shoot us an e-mail. This is a really exciting product and something that I plan our clients plan to use. We already have people on a waiting list and this is will be live as this podcast comes out. Now on to the show and I hope you enjoy it. All right, we're live. Good morning. We have a special episode this week because On Ramp is launching Dynasty Trust Services in partnership with First Covenant Trust and Advisor. And we have Paul Hoylman joining us who is a partner and strategic advisor to 1st Covenant. And I'm also joined this morning by Brian Cabelis and Michael Tanguma of On Ramp. Gentlemen, good to see you excited about the launch of this partnership. And Paul, thank you for joining us. How are you doing, Paul? Yeah, doing good. Thanks for having me today guys. Morning, super excited for this conversation. I know it's a early Monday morning off the weekend. This will be released Thursday morning with the launch of the product. But I think the entire team personally is super excited for this conversation and for this to be out. Been working in this industry for about 5 plus years and there's been no shortage of gaps. And they're slowly every, you know, year and every month being developed. But one that has is still retained as a very large gap has to do with the state planning, trust planning. And how do we preserve this wealth that we've been securing for, you know, years, if not decades into the future. So super excited for Paul to share his story on what we're working on the first covenant. Likewise, and Paula, I'll let you know before we get into this conversation that we have a lot of conversations with clients and prospective clients and these topics come up very frequently. So it's a much needed product in the Bitcoin industry and just the wealth management, you know, estate planning industry in general. So thank you for the work that you and the team are doing and excited for this conversation. Yeah, absolutely exciting. So the best place to start is, Paul, why don't you give us a better sense of who you are, your background professionally And then if you could kind of merge that with your interest in Bitcoin, that would be great place just to level set and give the audience a better understanding of who we're speaking with today. Yeah, sure. So, you know, early career days, I started out in traditional finance, you know, pretty basic insurance, wealth management stuff. Got my Series 7 and 66 registrations, went on to join an RIA firm and then got my CFP certified financial planner designation. So I spent a fair amount of time in, you know, traditional wealth management and things of that nature. And early on had a chance to join a South Dakota charter Trust Company and, you know, was, was interested by that didn't know a ton at the time about South Dakota trust structures, estate planning, ultra high net worth stuff. And, you know, the, the more basic wealth management stuff. You know, I think a lot of people know and it's a little more broadly understood. And I was really curious, you know, what do you, what do you do at the ultra high net worth levels? You know, what do you do at the end? What, what's that stuff? It just was an interesting niche that I quite frankly didn't know a ton about at the time. So, so join first government trust got a chance early. It was one of the early employees built out a lot of the operational and trust administrative systems and processes, became a partner there early on and you know, continue to be a partner and strategic advisor to the company today. But you know, in my time there worked with a lot of ultra high net worth families and day-to-day administration, you know, where we had funded South Dakota Dynasty trust and we were, you know, doing things on a regular basis. Got to work on the, the strategy and the planning side, putting these structures into place. So just got to, got to be involved in a lot of different areas and it was, it was really interesting and, and really good learning experience, you know, and on the Bitcoin side, I, I would say, you know, for me, it started in those early financial planning days and studying the markets, you know, started to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole looking at quantitative easing and how, you know, there was a, a pretty strong positive correlation between some of the quantitative easing periods that followed the great financial crisis and S&P 500. And, you know, some of those returns were, you know, somewhat A debasement story. And so, you know, I wish back then I would have found Bitcoin, but I didn't. So, you know, I found gold and you know, started to go down that gold rabbit hole and thinking about debasement and and what's happening and so. You know, and if you go down that gold rabbit hole. You you, you run into a lot of hurdles with with custody. You know, how do you want to own gold if you're going to own gold? And so you know, I think you know, a true gold bug would not have any interest in the GLDETF effectively a paper claim on gold. You know, do you have transparency there? If if we have a systemic crisis, do you actually own gold? And so, you know, how do you own gold? Do you take physical custody of it? I mean, you can't keep it at your house. So do you outsource it? What do you do with it? And so that was sort of my, my early, you know, I guess struggle with what to do. And so then, you know, transition that to Bitcoin and, you know, Bitcoin is effectively digital gold on steroids. And you can do a lot more with with Bitcoin than you can with gold. But I think thinking about Bitcoin custody from that gold lens is, is a little bit helpful because you've got to think about what do you really want to own? Like do you want to own I bet do you want to own the ETF? You know, and I think for some people maybe that's OK, but. I think if you really want Bitcoin exposure, the best thing to do is just own Bitcoin. And so then you, you go down that rabbit hall of OK, well, if you're going to own it, how do you own it? How do you custody it and things like that. And so, you know, that's what led me to find you guys at On Ramp and yeah, excited for, excited for. The dynasty trust side of things. Yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense, Paul and I certainly I've experienced that Michael Bryan, the team and hence why we built the firm, right. And so naturally as we look to evolve things, launch new partnerships here at On Ramp, one of the gaps we've continued to identify not only with our client segment, but just the industry as a whole is well, as people start to become more sophisticated and they, you know, first have to get their custody up to snuff. And then depending on their allocation size, they may need to think more immediately about the next steps as it relates to securing that wealth, protecting it against for different threat vectors. And maybe it's not an immediate need, but it's something that they may need to think about for five or ten years down the road. And you know, like any good plan and you kind of want to get ahead of that rather than being reactive. So certainly appreciate that. And that's why on our side, Michael, if you have any thoughts just about the partnership before we get into more of the details, I just want to be able to paint a picture for the audience here as to why this made sense on both sides. Yeah, definitely. Thanks, Jackson and Paul. I think coming from the gold side, it predisposed you to understanding counterparty risk and thinking about things from first principles. I think ultimately we have a lot of the legacy world kind of being mirrored over into the digital asset world. So net new incomers to Bitcoin exposure are fine with the ETF's. But as you said, there's no shortage of reasons why you would want to own the underline and then secure it in best in class ways. And then I think that ties into legacy planning because as you plan the air manage and hand that asset over to your your family or loved ones, you're going to want the most optionality when it comes to being able to deliver, lend against. Or if we plan to use Bitcoin in other ways, having any ETF doesn't allow for that. So that makes complete sense. I think maybe before going into some of the partnership, it'd be helpful just to share a little bit about what makes South Dakota so special with trust and dynasty planning. And also ultimately how this isn't actually anything in my world. And I think a lot of listeners world like the trust and dynasty planning, irrevocable trust, it all sounds very opaque and ephemeral, sounds like something you may never need or maybe when you get old enough or you're have 10 to $100 million in capital you want to protect. But as we built our relationship, started to learn how dynasty trust specifically for Bitcoin or it's not, it's an absolute no brainer. Like at a certain level, if your thesis is Bitcoin is going to reach 1,000,000 to $10 million, you want to be able to preserve and take care of that to offset as much of the external gains you'd have to give to Uncle Sam or any other third party. So we'd love to just hear a little bit more about what makes South Dakota special versus like Wyoming in particular, because I think a lot of listeners will probably know of Wyoming for the digital assets expertise, but it's fundamentally different than preservation of generational capital. Yeah, sure. You know, I think South Dakota is widely respected and known as, you know, the. Best scientists for dynasty trusts? And ultimately with with Bitcoin, you know, at a certain level, if you have a lot of Bitcoin and expect that appreciation you're talking about, you know, if you have a lot today, you're going to have a whole lot in the future. And so at some point, your trust effectively becomes a dynasty trust. At some point you die and, and it's your wife, it's your kids, it's your grandkids. And so South Dakota has a lot of advantages over our other jurisdictions with respect to trust law. And I think, you know, that's why we're so excited is because we can effectively marry best in class trust law and estate planning with best in class Bitcoin custody. And so to me, it was just a no brainer. Like we need both at the same table. And so you know, South Dakota has no rule against perpetuities, meaning trust in South Dakota can last forever, whereas you know most. Other states they have. You know, some period of time where the trust has to dissolve no matter what. And some of those are long, you know, maybe 300 years. But South Dakota trust can last forever. And that's important because when the trust dissolves in those states where it has to. You're effectively liquidating the assets of the trust onto the beneficiaries, which is going to expose the giant estate tax bill in the future. It's going to expose them to, you know, lawsuits and creditor claims and things like that, that while the bitcoins owned by the trust just aren't there. And so to me, I just don't know. I mean 300 years, a long time. But I just don't know why you would choose anything but forever when you when that's a choice. So, you know, so that's one thing, you know, another thing is South Dakota has really good directed trust statutes and that's probably a new concept for a lot of people that aren't in the trust world. But with directed trust, you can effectively. When you create your trust, you can effectively appoint. Different people or firms or or what have you as the investment advisor of the trust or the distribution advisor of the trust instead of the trustee. So you know, in the traditional trust sense, like when you create a trust and you appoint A trustee, you're basically giving that trustee all the power of the assets in the trust that how to invest them, how to distribute them, what to do with them. But with South Dakota and directed trust, you could actually, as an example, you could keep the authority of how you invest the trust assets. And I think that's particularly important for people with a lot of Bitcoin. Because you know your your. Generic Trustee has a duty to diversify it. So if you give them the authority over the trust assets, just from a risk mitigation standpoint, they're probably not comfortable with 100% allocation of Bitcoin. But with the South Dakota trust, you just name yourself as the investment advisor and you say, hey, this trust was created for the sole purpose to hold Bitcoin. 100% allocation is OK and that's what we want to do and so. You know you can. Name the investment advisor, the distribution advisor. There's just lots of controls you can. Retain or or give to trusted family members or advisors that you can't necessarily do in other jurisdictions. So I think that's important. South Dakota has some of the best decanting provisions, which effectively allows you to modify. An irrevocable trust over time and, and again when we're thinking about generational legacy here, you know, I think that's important because, you know, tax laws could change, lots of things could change over, you know, future generations. And with good decanting provisions, you could effectively pour the assets from one irrevocable trust into another to benefit. From new tax law or or otherwise, without opening yourself up to lawsuits, credit or claims, estate taxes, you know, keeping all the benefits that you got. From the trust in the first place. So just lots of different way that also one of the best states for domestic asset protection trust. So maybe you just have a lot of stuff and and you want asset protection, you want to protect it from creditors, lawsuits, divorce, what have you an asset protection trust. South Dakota is one of the best there. So just across the board. You know, in the United. States it's hard to do better than South Dakota. Yeah. Thanks for running through that. And I think maybe just to contextualize, I think to Jackson's question why this matters and why individuals should should be interested. Ultimately, think about what Paul shared when you mentioned perpetuity, being able to still control and then protection around like legal ramifications, whether it's being sued creditors. This asset for individuals may be 5 percent, 10% and maybe 50 to 100% of somebody's wealth. Everyone has different exposure, but at a certain point as it grows, you want to protect it. And historically in Bitcoin, the all of these, it's been understood by wealthy individuals that you want to put them in these irrevocable trust. You want to get them out of your state for all of these reasons. But it's been very opaque for most Bitcoin holders because it's either been insanely expensive because we've been so early. So the folks that we've had on the spot or world class, but they can only work with individuals that have call it over $100 million. And then also the biggest one has been the control and the underlying custody of the asset because historically, the only way to be able to manage a trust like this, which was with a single custodian. So just think about what that means is OK, so you can get the assets out of your direct wallet and you know, a Trust Company and a advisor will take care and manage what Paul's referencing and we'll talk about on this podcast. But ultimately you have to give it up to a third party custodian. And it's this weird paradox because the reason why the person held 10 holds 10,000 Bitcoin today or more is because they never trusted a single custodian. But now you're telling them to protect your assets, protect your state and give as much of this Bitcoin that you saw early and invested in. You have to give up and hope to God that I'm going to protect it or the third party sub custodian. And so that's personally I think why on the on ramp side is super excited about it is when you approach this with this idea and your background and then understanding being a client, it was like, this is what we've been looking for and we've been thinking about. And so hopefully that helps contextualize for the audience, like everyone most likely listening as a Bitcoin holder. And if your position isn't big enough yet, as Paul goes through the mechanics of savings over a long enough time horizon, it absolutely becomes a no brainer to to look into something like this. Yeah. And if I could jump in there as well, maybe before getting into more of the nuance there. So Paul, the way I understood it was three main things and two things in layman's terms. Two of the things you mentioned seemed to be protection and then one of them was more about control. So you had the decanting provisions and then the longevity. It's probably the wrong word, but of the trust, right? The fact that it could be structured forever and then the ability to be able to pour over, as you mentioned, assets from one trust structure into another to shield yourself from potential risk. And then the, the middle thing you spoke to with the directed trust statutes is the ability to just have more control by appointing the right people that you want to be involved in protecting these assets. So I think it's worth just to summarize that given these are more nuanced, complex topics that we're not as sophisticated as you are, you know, not in the weeds on these topics. So if we could go to the first one, I think that would be helpful just to level set a little bit more about what are people typically looking to protect themselves against. If you could name like the top three to five things, because again, this could seem obvious to you, but maybe there's one thing that people have in mind, but they haven't thought about the three or five other things that they should be thinking about. So what are the main things with the dynasty trust that investors or families are looking to protect themselves against? Yeah. You know, I think when you think about different ways that you can do this and Michael's right that, you know, there just hasn't been a great way to do it where you don't have significant counterparty risk. And and so that's why it's not really been done yet. But if you just zoom out and think from first principles, you know, Saylor mentions, you know, buying, you know, prime the old state in Manhattan 102 hundred years ago, you know, I don't know anybody that owns prime real estate in Manhattan that owns it personally, that owns it in their name, right. And so if Bitcoin is this prime real estate, if it if it is, you know, this, this one of one asset class, why would that be any different? Why, why would you want to own a significant amount of wealth in Bitcoin in your name personally? And you know, again, just using the Manhattan real estate example, if if. Some great real estate mogul owned a ton of Manhattan real estate in their name personally. You know, one thing that would happen is they'd be subject. To a ton of lawsuits and creditor claims right I mean they would just be targeted and so when you own it in your name personally, you just have to fight those lawsuits off and hope for the best but but why do. That so I think. One of the big ones is just just. You know, creditors, lawsuits, just just general asset protection stuff. That's why people put their valuable assets in certain LLCS or certain trust structures. They, they want protection from that. That's why they don't own it outright. So I think that's a. Big one. And then the other big one is just estate taxes. I mean, you know, with the recent Big Beautiful bill, the estate tax exemption is going to 15,000,000 per person in 2026. It's index for inflation from there. So you know that that covers a lot of people. A lot of people aren't worth more than 15,000,000. That's. That's OK, but if you've got a lot of Bitcoin, you are. Or if if you're even close to that, you will be in the future as Bitcoin continues to appreciate. And so you know, why pay 40% estate taxes when you die? Why have your kids pay that and and those estate taxes are due nine months from the day to death. So, you know, why have that in your name personally, again, the Manhattan real estate, you know, you don't. And so I think it just, you know, that's a really simple way of looking at it to me, but it's like, how do you how how do people own their most valuable assets? Like forget Bitcoin for a minute, just generally, how do you own your most valuable assets? And and there's lots of different structures and whether. To do that but. You know, Bitcoin needs those things too, like at the end of the day, it is an asset and and so I think it's best to to protect it with those structures. Can we double click there? Because I think honestly that is the biggest one and where most people are going, like my friends that would never use multi institution custody are going to reach out where I'm going to reach out to them and their portion of their stacks going to come into something like this. Because if you think about it, what you just said, somebody having so there's death. What's the exact term for before you park the in here? The gift tax exemption. Yeah, there's there's gift tax exemption, there's a lifetime gift tax exemption, and there's the estate tax exemption. Yep. So you have either between 7:00 to $15 million depend on status that you can park assets in there. And ultimately to your point Paul, maybe somebody has, there's a lot of listeners have two to $5,000,000 in Bitcoin and they may not be thinking about $15 million, but they know it will be there. That's only, let's say you have 5 million, it's only a 3X from here. And as it grows, parking those assets into decentralized custody, so multi institution custody, you still retain direction. So you can still lend, you can do, we'll talk about all these different features you can manage. But then God forbid something happens to your state, it's also protected. So if you're sued, it's sitting away from you, but God forbid something happened to you personally and the asset runs to 20,000,025 million. That's only four or 5X from here, right? Well, you're not paying the taxes in that 40% bracket that you would have been exposed to if you're sitting in $20 million in gains when you pass outside of it being shielded. I think like that in itself is something that nobody's really had exposure had explained. There's a lot more benefits. I don't want to like shy away from them, but that is the key thing that like just drives it and makes it a no brainer my eyes because it's a hyper growth asset that's. Right. I mean, in, in, you know, going back, you know, decades before Bitcoin, you know, just, you know, common practice is you want to get your fastest appreciating assets out of your taxable estate. Like that's the game. So, you know, everybody's got, you know, their portfolio, they've got real estate, they've got business interests, they've got Bitcoin now they've got gold, they've got stocks, bonds, you name it. When you're doing trust planning and we're trying to solve for, you know, minimizing or even avoiding completely estate taxes at you know when you. Pass. What we want to look at is which of your assets is going to grow the fastest. Those are the ones we want to put into that South Dakota trust because we want to shield the growth from estate tax, right? So whether you're worth 5 million a day or 50 million a day, I, I don't think anybody thinks that 10X in Bitcoin is that far away. So if you're worth 5 today, you're going to be worth 50. If you're, you know, worth 50 today, you're going to be worth 500. Do you want that growth subject to the 40% estate? I mean, it's crazy. It's just a crazy number. And so, and, and don't don't forget about that too. Your kids are going to be faced with the same issue. They die, another 40%'s gone and then another. So like somebody in the family at some point is going to see it and say, I'm going to fix this for everybody one time, right? And so that's why I'm excited about it because it just takes that that that light to go off. It just takes that realization for somebody to say, wait a minute. So if I do this now, then nobody in the history of, you know, my family for generations generate will ever do that will ever pay this estate tax. That's powerful. And so I just think it's kind of AI don't know if early adopters right word, because it's, you know, maybe it's a new thought for for people in Bitcoin, but it's just at at some point, if you have a lot of Bitcoin, at some point, some of your family's going to figure it out, right? So it's like it might as well be now, especially when there's so much appreciation left on the board. You know, I mean, that's, that's really if Bitcoin was growing at 2% a year, it's not a slam dunk asset, asset to put to to solve for here, like put your real estate in and put something else. But but that's not what Bitcoin is. So it is really the asset to put into one of these truck structures, trust structures because of the future appreciation that that's expected. Yeah. And Paul, maybe I think you'd probably be helpful for the listeners to share a little bit of first covenant trust because it's a world class team managing, you know, several billions of dollars in AUM. They focus solely on traditional assets. And I think that's an important function of all of this because this isn't digital asset experts managing digital assets because generally want experts that exist in the traditional world to help manage your assets because you can port, it's a lot easier to port Bitcoin into that world than to try to take all this frameworks imported into digital asset world. So if you can share a little bit about that team and then the overarching product when you think about Dynasty trust and how it doesn't have to necessarily just be dedicated to Bitcoin. So if clients or respective clients have other assets and then maybe you can dive into why the whole picture of the on ramp partnership and how the trust product works. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. So First Covenant South Dakota Chartered Trust Company, it's been around now for maybe 15-16 years, but yeah, exclusively in traditional assets, business interest, portfolio assets, real estate and you know, with a, with a niche in South Dakota and serving ultra high net worth and, and administering and operating directed trusts and things like that. And so, you know, coming from that world where I was, you know, in the middle of. You know, day-to-day operations with directed trust, with ultra high net worth, with trust administration in South Dakota, meeting with South Dakota Division of Banking regulators and going through all that. And you know, getting to know on ramp and, and the the product you guys offer that that's kind of the where the bell went off for me is like, you know, the the right thing for consumers is to take a proficient. Experienced X with expertise in South Dakota trust administration to take that Trust Company and marry it to best in class Bitcoin custody. You know, I, I don't, you know. Maybe somebody will will do, will prove me wrong, but I just don't think that. There's a ton of people in Bitcoin in the Bitcoin space that also know trust South Dakota trust administration, and if you don't administer these trust right, you can, you can break all the benefits. I mean, if you, you could lose your estate tax savings, you could lose your asset protection. So it's very important on both sides. And so, you know, I think with on ramp, you know, there's a lot of things that that I like about on ramp, but you know, one with on chain transparency, I mean that that's a huge deal. Segregated accounts like you own Bitcoin and and so just think it's a a good a good combination there. But when we do this planning, you know, a lot of these people, Bitcoin is not the only thing they own. I mean, some people maybe it's 90%, but but other people it may be 25% still millions, but they're worth, you know, 50 million. They've got privately held business interests, they've got real estate. You know, all of that stuff can be put into the same South Korea trust. Like you don't have to do a new one, trust for Bitcoin, another trust for your business interests or your portfolio assets. You could, you could reap all these benefits with one trust structure or two trust structures. It's really it's really person to person and it's got to be customized. And so there's definitely some some fact finding and some discussion and just trying to understand what what any given family is trying to accomplish. But I think Bitcoin is a pristine asset for these trust structures. And so, yeah, so just excited to, to, to unlock that and, and be able to provide that to the market because I think it's, it's been needed for a long time. And, and having fault tolerance and having different layers and different institutions, it just, you know, I would be comfortable with it. Like it's, it's just the right answer. I, I, I wouldn't be comfortable to your point with one custodian, 1 trustee, one Trust Company, you know, a South Dakota Trust Company that, you know, manages the private keys to my Bitcoin. I, I just don't, that's not, I don't think that's good enough. So, so yeah, I don't know if that fully answered it, Michael, but you know, those are some thoughts on it. It really does. I think this is a topic for another conversation, but it's worth calling out because we were pinging about it is this notion of trust companies and qualified custodians in the legal sense aren't necessarily always the best in or they're sometimes tongue in cheek unqualified custodians in the Bitcoin sense. And you can get in a lot of trouble if there's a loss of assets, specifically digital assets and they're titled at the Trust Company. And we saw this with Prime Trust and Fortress and others, because now you have offsetting liabilities. And then if you go into receivership and others are exposed, there's a lot around there. And so that's really where the underlying custody is important, where you don't want to have a single custodian be able to get knocked out of the game and put a hole in that balance sheet. So it's very wise or smart that you keyed in on that. One thing that came to mind was around the difference between the asset protection and dynasty trusts, because I think that's may be important if you want to break down kind of the, the, the two products and the mechanics. Because I think very often including like, you know, us on the call that are, you know, somewhat younger. The guys are definitely younger than than both me and Paul. Like you just kind of like maybe aren't ready for dynasty trust. Maybe the assets aren't necessarily ready and the exposure, but the asset protection is still super important and can naturally be converted over time. Maybe help walk us through how this would work and who who it works for and how somebody should think about it in different like age demographics. Sure, yeah, I mean there's there's lots of different kinds of trusts and and we could certainly support all kinds of trusts, Charitable Trusts, you name it. But I think, you know, two of the the big ones that come to mind to me for Bitcoin holders are just self settled asset protection trusts on one hand and dynasty trusts on the other. And so you know somebody that that would benefit from a self settled, self settled asset protection trust and and would. Be interested in setting that up. It's just somebody that has a significant amount of Bitcoin that wants asset protection and asset protection meaning, you know, from lawsuits, creditors, divorce, you name it, that real estate mogul that just wants their assets protected. And so to me, it just comes down to a question of size. I mean, you know, if you, you know, if you, if you don't own a lot of Bitcoin, it's probably not worth setting up that asset protection trust. But if you own a lot just like you own that, that prime Manhattan real estate, you probably shouldn't own it in your name. So it's just a question of size for me. But but the asset protection trust, you're creating a South Dakota trust that you are the beneficiary of. So that, that's kind of a key difference when I think about the dynasty trust in the, in the asset protection trust, who's the beneficiary on the asset protection side? You, it could be your Bitcoin, you could create that trust and you could also be the primary beneficiary of that trust. And then when you die, that trust effectively becomes a dynasty trust for your for the next generation. And so I think there's definitely a, a group of people that that makes sense for right now that don't know about it or, or that haven't quite found the right solution for it. On the other hand, dynasty trust, you've got somebody that's maybe they're, you know, married, have kids, grandkids, etcetera. But but they want to solve the estate tax side of the equation and want to go ahead and park some Bitcoin into a new structure that they're not the beneficiary of. And that doesn't mean that they can't still benefit from it to a degree. There's there's ways we could structure that to where you still park ways with it, but that you still benefit from it. But ultimately, if, if you're setting up a dynasty trust today, I think your motivations are your family and estate taxes, right? And, and, and they're not mutually exclusive. I mean, somebody could do both. I mean, if you've got hundreds of Bitcoin, you know, you could put 100 Bitcoin in a self settled asset protection trust that you are the primary beneficiary of. And then you could put the other hundred or two or three, whatever, into a dynasty trust that's for your wife, kids, grandkids, you name it. Where we we? Effectively, we go ahead and use your estate tax exemption to put it into that trust. And then all of the growth happens inside the trust outside of your taxable estate. So that you know again, if you're worth 10 million today and Bitcoin 10X's and now you're worth 100 million, that growth from 10 to 100 million happened inside the dynasty trust where it it's not subject to your your estate tax when you die. And so really I think that's, you know, I think there's a lot of people that would benefit from both of those structures. Like you mentioned, it's not necessarily the same. I think if you're, you know, super young, maybe the asset protection trust, it feels more right right now. But again, it comes down to size too. And so even if you know, you're a young guy, but you've got hundreds or thousands of Bitcoin, you may still want to get in front of this estate tax picture. You may still want to park some into the dynasty trust even at 30 years old. So it's not necessarily an age thing, but it's just a they just solve different. They just solve different problems ultimately. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, Paul, in terms of just, I appreciate you walking us through the different types of profiles you might see and how to think about the self said cell asset protection trust versus the dynasty trust. I think one thing that could be really helpful if you're ready to go there is you could actually pull up the numbers. I have them on my side and walk through just the sample case study of what the dynasty trust planning would actually look like from protecting assets on the taxable side. Does that sound like a good place to go for you? Sure. OK. I think this will help because, you know, a lot of the concepts make sense, but then once you actually see those numbers in practice and how how much it actually can be to your benefit, your family's benefit, it I think puts a little bit more gravity behind the situation here. Yeah. Well, Paul's looking at this, if you're listening, there'll be a dedicated web page with these reports, calculators and be able to book time with us as well. So all of this content will be available on the website at the launch. All right. Yeah. So, yeah. And just to level set here as well. So what we're looking at, I guess, Paul, you can describe it, but I want to call out as well that the assumptions, I'm not sure if you were going to, but I think the assumptions are incredibly conservative, right? So you have, you have in here that 20 years until death and the price of death, the Bitcoin price of death is $1,000,000. So just for people who don't have this in front of them, these are the assumptions we're working with here. So go ahead, Paul. Yeah, it's a good call out and and intentionally so, because even with those hyper conservative assumptions, you still see the the power of this thing. So this first scenario is somebody that has 100 Bitcoin and and this is oversimplified, you know, just to just to be able to get the the point across. But let's just say someone with 100,000 or sorry, excuse me, 100 Bitcoin today worth 11 and a half million roughly. And let's just assume that that's their only. Assets, again, conservatively they they need to live on $100,000 a year. They've got 20 years until they die. And at the time of death, bitcoins going to be worth a million per coin. So on the without planning side, you know in round numbers. Their their their portfolio should be worth around 93,000,000 at the date of death. The estate tax exemption, which is set to go to 15,000,000 next year, should be close to 22 million. And that's again, index for inflation. It's based on the CCPIU, which is typically lower than CPIU. So figure 2 to 3% for that. And you can, you know, do your own estimations there, but we should have a $22 million exemption when this person dies without planning. And what that means is they can leave 22 million to their kids without any estate taxes, but after 22 million, they're going to pay a 40% tax rate based on current tax law that results in a 28 and a half million dollar tax liability. Meaning of their 93,000,000, they're only passing on 64 and a half million. And you know, that's not a small number. It's nothing to sneeze. At But it's a huge tax. Number in my opinion, you know, almost $29 million of taxes due nine months the day to death. So, so put yourself in that without planning shoes. 100 Bitcoin worth 11,000,000 today. If Bitcoin's only worth a million in 20 years, you know, your kids are effectively selling 29,000,000 worth of Bitcoin, you know, within nine months of your death and paying that tax bill. And you know, I just think you know, why do that if you don't have to? I mean, it's really that simple. And so on the other hand, if we plan and we get that that Bitcoin out of the taxable estate now, we still live on the 100,000 a year, it's still worth 1,000,020 years from now. All the same same assumptions apples for apples, your trust is now worth 93,000,000 at your date of death. And so because it all all that growth happened outside of the taxable estate, there's no tax liability at your date of death. So all 93,000,000 passes on to the next generation. You know, they're roughly 29 million ahead and importantly, a lot of Bitcoin ahead because remember, that's not a, that's not the final picture, right? I mean, the, the game is accumulating and saving Bitcoin and you're, you're effectively by not planning, you're forcing them not to, you're forcing them to, to liquidate and get rid of Bitcoin just to pay taxes. And so I think it's a, it's big in terms of dollars, but it's also big in terms of how much Bitcoin you're forcing them to forgo. Yeah, I mean, Paul, can you just, can you just highlight? I mean, I think like there's a big juxtaposition the past 15 years when you think about a Bitcoin holder and the archetype and they've held to self custody. They had to protect their assets, afraid and worried about hacks, the state, everything under the sun. And now you have a you have this problem because as it becomes more and more financialized and mainstream, you're like, well, what do I do? Because I want access to, you know, financial products like loans against Bitcoin. Maybe I want to recognize it as collateral for a home, but I can't self custody, right? Self custody just keeps it out of the system no matter how you slice it, right? It's the same thing with gold, the same reason why you can't participate in these financial products because if you have the underline, well, you can always do a bunch of things with it and you can. And then now somebody else is on the hook for those liabilities. And so why I'm walking through this is because ultimately I think, and I know a lot of these individuals have planned for, I'm gonna hold my back going till the end of the state, the end to taxes. And I'm going to pass them through. And there's a whole slew of Bitcoiners, and I know them again, that have like these, like they're not triggers, but they're places. If they die, they're going to give it to their kid and then they're going to go off and have it. But the problem where it hits is imagine Bitcoin at 250,000 or $1,000,000. You cannot give somebody $100 million in it, not if he exposed or understood or you can, but they'll never be able to do anything with it because it's just going to sit there. You think about all the amount of chain analysis and, and technology that'll exist in five years to be able to track and get every, you know, UTXO and who it's owned by. And so I just think that it's important to walk through like how it's not, it doesn't have to be either or. You don't have to go all into something like this. You don't have to go all into self custody, but there's like tools becoming available because the last thing that I would ever want to do, I love the United States, but we all know the, it's just, it's, it's, it's almost feels like a moral imperative because it's pretty disgusting with the amount of like waste that comes from taxes. Imagine doing everything right for 15 years or however long, getting it all right, the custody, dodging every bullet under the sun. And then Uncle Sam takes 40% of that like $30 million. Like it's just an insane proposition. And that's why we're excited to have this conversation because we're going to, we're one of the fastest growing businesses in this space and we're going to tell everybody about this. And overtime they're just going to recognize it and then more people will do it. But it's just the right thing to do because you shouldn't be stuck with this hyper growth asset when it gets to 500K or $1,000,000. And God forbid you get hit by a bus, the government gets to take 40% of that and you have no, you know, choice in the matter. Absolutely. Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, I will say for me, Paul, at least when we were first having these discussions and and you start to show us some of the numbers, that's when it really started to click for me in terms of just the the magnitude of of savings at stake here. And I think part of to, you know, what Michaels alluded to is like, you know, this asset hasn't been around for that long is the reality. And so most people who have been in early have accumulated, you know, large allocations of Bitcoin haven't necessarily thought about their death, thought about what happens after their lives. And so this is, has been, you know, largely a blind spot for a lot of folks in the space for a long time. And part of the reason has been that there has been a, a gap on the custody side because, you know, if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who's been saving a Bitcoin for 10 years, you know, you've done things, done things the right way in order to to hold the asset for 10 years. And so you haven't probably trusted a single counterparty. And so there's going to be a natural aversion to doing that when thinking about these trust structures. And so to me, that's the really exciting part about all of this is like it is a real unlock in terms of of filling that gap in the market where someone can have fault tolerant, robust custody and still benefit from these strategies in a way that is, you know, philosophically aligned with how they think about the asset in terms of its distributed nature, decentralization, eliminating single points of failure. So there's just incredible alignment here in terms of just thinking about the duration of the asset, how you want to plan for the future. And then also just thinking from first principles about custody, how you're going to store it, how you're going to get to that future 510-5300 years from now. You're going to have to do it in a way that's that's fault tolerant and trust minimize. And so super excited about the all this. But yeah, I just wanted to mention like when I saw those numbers it, it, it really started to click for me that this is a a complete no brainer for someone who has a material allocation to the asset. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's well said, Brian. Hi everyone, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I hope this episode was very informative and enlightening. It's a very exciting time. As the asset class matures, the products and services have to as well. One of the key highlights that really make this product. Not only no brainer in my eyes, but also really. Have it pay for itself. When you think about using on ramp multi institution custody, access to best in class financial services is just the savings that occur by taking advantage of some of these strategies when it comes to gift tax exemptions and then ultimately bypassing a lot of the estate taxes that would naturally occur upon someone's death and the passing of assets to their family. It's something we touched about on the podcast, but it's just this notion. To hold an asset. For, you know, years, if not decades and then to give it to a loved 1 and ultimately have to, you know, pay 40% of those taxes and give them up to the to the tax man and so. This is really a transformative. Product, it's something that again really aligns not only with the sovereignty ethos, but really the underlying Bitcoin strategy to be able to preserve that wealth, preserve the purchasing power still. Manage it and. Direct it to other investments if needed. Went away from your taxable estate, away from creditors, and especially from a privacy perspective. So we hope you enjoyed. This we'd love for you to take a look, book a consultation, and then again on our website, wellhavethisreportamongothers@honorbitcoin.com. We hope to hear from you soon. On to the rest of the show. Well, I think we got through a lot of it. Paul. Is there anything maybe fundamental you think we might have glanced over or passed by that we didn't do justice? I think we did get through the bulk of it. And then, Michael, I'd open it up to you as well if you think there's anything else we didn't cover in terms of like fundamentals or on the partnership or just the product itself? Yeah, I'll kick it to Paul. I mean, I think I think it'd be good just to share, Paul, to the extent you feel comfortable who this, you know, product and this partnership is, is for to me a little bit about the high level process. But I think one of the key things we didn't necessarily touch on exactly is the ability to lend against these assets. I think there's two parts that you referenced earlier in the podcast was the direction of control, because I think that's fundamentally also another big reason why Bitcoin holders have kept themselves away from participating because it's just it's a hard thing to do where you're like been holding this asset, you've had the sovereignty to be able to move it around and then to just give it up to a third party independent of any tax benefits. So I think the notion of being able to still direct control within that construct of lending against it or purchasing other things and still having to protect it is a big thing because I think a lot of Bitcoin holders plan to do things with this asset and they don't and they plan to leave it for their family and for generations. And so they can still be managed there. So maybe walking through a little bit of that in tying into that is some of the ability to live on those that Bitcoin because that's something that we talked a little bit with our partnership on the lending side, I think is fundamental to being able to manage to put larger amounts of BTC in these tax advantage constructs while also still being able to access liquidity from it. Yeah, let's see. So I think, I think it's, it's not an all or nothing thing like you said. And, and I definitely, you know, we've talked about, you know, self custody and counterparty risk and, and, you know, transferring ownership and things like that. And, and really what we're what we're doing here is, is one of the reasons I'm so excited there is, is that, you know, we're not saying let's, let's, let's, let's hand over the private key to an institution. Let's hand over the. The private key to a trustee, you know, even though there may be some benefits, you know, we're, we're we're basically putting a a corporate trustee at the helm where we know we have continuity. We have, we have an owner that can last as long as the trust can perpetually. And then underneath that we have, you know, multi institution custody with on ramp with, with on chain transparency and segregated accounts and really a nice, you know, dashboard and platform on the technology side that that our, our grant for our trustmaker is going to have access to. And so, but, but it's not an all or nothing thing. I mean, you know, Bitcoin can do a lot of things and, you know, I think there's, there's always going to be a place for self custody, but I think it, it, it just comes down to, you know, your most valuable assets and how much we're talking about that some of these trust structures start to make sense for at least some of it. And no matter what we do, whether it's asset protection, trust or dynasty trust, you know, there's mechanisms that we can get liquidity back to the grantor whose Bitcoin it was in the beginning and still give those asset protection benefits and those estate tax savings and, and things like that. You know, you mentioned the lending side. And you know, a trust. Basically do everything a person could do. I mean, the trust can collateralize Bitcoin. It can, it can borrow against it. And let's just say that you have really low basis in your Bitcoin, right? You may not want to sell, you know that 100,000 or 200,000 or whatever that annual living expense is. You may not want to sell that much Bitcoin because of the the capital gains tax that would be triggered there. And South Dakota has no state income taxes, but you still have Federal Capital gains taxes. And you know, again, it it comes down to how we structure the trust. Charitable trust could get away from that, but your dynasty trust and your your asset protection trust are typically going to be grant for trust. So income taxes are going to flow back to the grantor, but the trust can borrow against Bitcoin and in, you know, reasonable amounts. As you know, if you create one of those South Dakota trust and you name yourself as the investment advisor of the trust, that's basically your decision. And so if there's a need for liquidity, you know, you're deciding not the trustee. And that's what's so beautiful here. Not you're not, you're not asking first covenant, Hey, will you get, will you generate this liquidity for me? You're saying it makes sense to me to sell here or it makes sense to me to borrow against here. You're retaining that control. That's your decision. And so if you borrow, you know, if you've got, you know, $10 million in Bitcoin in this trust and you want to borrow against $100,000 to fund this year's living expenses or whatever it may be, that's your decision to make. And all of that happens within the trust where you still retain asset protection and, and the estate tax benefits. You know, one thing I, I failed to mention on South Dakota is privacy. I mean, South Dakota is the most private place to, to have a trust. You know, there's no public disclosure of those trusts. If, if, if somehow the trust does get into a litigation, court documents are automatically sealed. And so I think that's a huge deal. And again, synergy with Bitcoin here of, of privacy and anonymity. You know, I mean, you, you might not want to name your trust the Tanguma family trust because you kind of are blowing the cover on the, the privacy there. But you know, name it, name it something else, you know, your favorite sports team or whatever you want to name it. Nobody knows whose trust that is. You've got the asset protection, you've got privacy, you've got the estate tax benefits. The trust can borrow against the Bitcoin to generate liquidity for distributions to beneficiaries or to yourself. So just lots of different things we can do there to unlock liquidity and still benefit from the Bitcoin. I think at the end of the day, if you have a lot of Bitcoin and you don't plan to spend it all during your lifetime, then you've got to think about, OK, well, the Bitcoin I don't spend, how does my wife get it? How do my kids get it? You know, and that's, that's one of the reasons I came to on ramp was, you know, I'm married, 4 kids and you know, just thinking about, you know, when you, when you look at self custody, I was never super happy or comfortable with the Coinbase account. So you go into self custody and then you start going down that, that train of how am I going to get my wife to know what to do here and how much confidence do I have that she'll do it? And then how much less confidence do I have that she'll teach the kids how to do it? And so it just is like this. I don't know how you get super excited about that with, with a lot of Bitcoin. I don't have a lot, but you know, you get the point, like there's got to be a a mechanism there. And so I think with on ramp, you get the on train transparency, you get fault tolerance with the multi institution custody vaults. You have the transfer on death designation for for somebody that maybe you know, doesn't have millions of Bitcoin and it's not ready for a South Dakota trust. And so you just do a transfer on death designation or you you have a revocable trust that that has the owner ramp account and then that becomes your trust when you die. But as your stack gets bigger and as Bitcoin appreciates, and we're talking about millions, not thousands or hundreds of thousands, I think you have to start looking at these other structures to how to safeguard and how to how to own it. It's just materially a better way to own it. Yeah, it's really well said. I think we had AI had a great call. Paul, you'll appreciate this on Friday with a with a gentleman from one of the largest financial institutions in the world and they're involved in this space, listens to the pod regularly and said he's been listening for a while. I think everyone is on a different curve on the relationship with kind of what we do because it either feels like it's for their friends, friends or family, but not for themselves or they're, you know, waiting to see how many products, services, realize the vision, all these things. But it was really refreshing because he was explaining how he just hasn't, to your point, found the right solution. He was he's moved, migrated around collaborative custody to 3rd party custody and ultimately he feels a lot of anxiety these he sees where the world's going as most people listening, but there's no products that have been developed or to provide solutions for the long term Bitcoin holder. And that's personally why I'm really excited about this relationship and where it's going to go, because you reference these are all core tenants. See anybody with a long term low time preference, right? Privacy, as you mentioned, as you have larger amounts, it didn't like dawn on me that most wealthy people probably get sued a bunch because they just thought of her having capital. So if you don't want anybody to know that you have this capital and you can be private with it, but then you can also shield it as well. So God forbid something does happen, it's protected. The thing that we talked behind the scenes that you touched on a little bit here was around the family protection. Because it starts to go through the, the example you reference of, you know, you put it in these trusts and, you know, God forbid something happens to you and then you pass it to your son or what, or a daughter and then they're in a divorce. Well, it can just easily go to their spouse, 50% of that, which is just like a nightmare in its own self, right? It goes up there with the, the, the state. But then the last part I wanted to reference was just, this is kind of like the natural maturation of the asset class. Like as the price grows, all of these things start to like naturally be needed and almost become table stakes. I was thinking about lending as an example, right? We saw in 22 just a blow up with centralized custody, specifically Iras and trust structures. It's kind of like insane when you really think about it. No custodian has existed over 10 years. I don't know, I think coin, but maybe it's Coinbase in 2013. That's like the that's the one anomaly, but it's a one out of whatever number. And so for legacy planning, how can you plan on one entity to manage those assets forever? And then specifically or for your IRA's and tax advantage accounts, if you don't plan to, you know, retire for 30 to 40 years, like how can you plan? So these products just become very straightforward, But the reality is most people don't have very large amounts of exposure in a Bitcoin or the price hasn't moved and there's probably they're going to converge together. And so this is the, this is kind of like the robustness of multi institution custody. And while we're excited across the market to be bringing this to board with this product, but then also others that we have in the pipeline. Yeah. And I would just, I know we're going to wrap up here in a second. I would just reiterate the fact as well that to Michael's point, it is a maturation. And Paul, this ties into what you said as well, where, you know, we have a lot of clients that have been in Bitcoin for five years, 10 years, and they have a material allocation. And for a long time, the only path forward they could see as related to their Bitcoin was not your keys, not your coins, right? This is what ultimately kept them safe from all sorts of institutional collapses and outright malfeasance at a lot of firms. So that's kept them safe for a decade. But then, over that past decade, many of them got married. Many of them have several children now. And so there's a recognition that, well, maybe I and to be fair, a lot of people are not comfortable or very technically savvy as it relates to managing their own keys. But even for the people who are like fairly competent and technical and they do key checks and they distribute keys, they do all the things that are correct with how you should manage it. A lot of times where it does fall short is with the family, right. And so I think where a lot of people come to terms with reality is that, well, as much as I would love to be the self sovereign individual where I just rely on myself, it's not about me anymore. It's about the children that I have, it's about my spouse, etc. And so that's where we ended up filling the gap for our clients was being able to have a transfer on death designation. Cuz you mentioned how every client has their own account entitled in their name, segregated on chain only their Bitcoin, etcetera. So we, we solve that next gap of ownership for people where they're able to designate beneficiaries. And then this partnership with Covenant really extends that even further where it's like when you're ready for that next step, when your assets are already at a point of considerable amount or they're going to be there in 5 or 10 years and you need to think about protecting yourself from potential creditors and all these other, you know, threat factors are out there. This is, in my opinion, like the next cycle of maturity or the next step of maturity as it relates to responsible ownership of this asset. So I'm excited about the partnership as well. Even just over the past hours speaking and speaking to it in more detail, you know, it continues to excite me and I know we're going to be able to help out a lot of people. So I'm excited for that. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, again, it does sound opaque and and a lot of people aren't as familiar with some of these trust terms and structures, but it's really not that hard, I think with this partnership with Covenant. And on ramp, you know, setting up a South Dakota trust and and getting these asset protection or estate tax or privacy. Benefits is is not much harder than setting up a wallet. I mean, there's a little more legal work involved, but the team at covenant is super proficient, a lot of good tax planning and trust planning that we help with. And so it's really just understand what somebody wants and we can get those done, you know, relatively quick, get those accounts opened and then, you know, as far as, you know, putting Bitcoin in a dynasty trust, it's just as simple as. Having that trust open that MIC vault address with on ramp and then you transfer as much Bitcoin as you want into it. And then you you, you reap those benefits. And so, you know, Michael, you mentioned like the the high net worth and the lawsuits and things like that. Well, you can be high net worth and be known if it's in the South going to trust. But if if it's not, then you know, yeah, you've got all these lawsuits and creditors to concern yourself with because you own that real estate or that Bitcoin or that whatever personally. So any of those lawsuits or situations you get into? You've got a lot to worry about and if we if we've got it behind that South Dakota trust wall. It's just a legal layer on top of the MIC vault. It's it's just a legal protection around it that even if you are, you know, famous, well known, what have you, nobody can get to it. And so you. Can just have a lot of Peace of Mind there and and know that when you die right because we don't nobody knows when that's going to happen for you know for anybody and no matter how old you are. But when you die, you don't have to worry about unlike a transfer on both like. Yeah, my kids going through a divorce right now. He inherits 100 Bitcoin. His ex-wife gets gets half of it. I mean, what a nightmare and and you're not even alive to to see it happen. But but he is so, you know, just there's all there's a lot of. Shortfalls that can happen there with, with, you know, without the trust structure and with the trust structure you just, you just have a ton of Peace of Mind and you've got an institutional legal framework to to protect you know what you've what you've been able to accumulate. Yeah, it's very, it's very well said. I think for any listeners that want to learn more, you can actually go to the website or you can book a consultation. The process as Paul said is think at its essence, there's a demystifying what has been rather opaque. So you'll be able to book time with us, will, you know, be able to ultimately qualify, make sure that it's the right product. You can imagine, as Paul and Jackson said, sometimes the termination on death certificate might be the perfect setup because of your age, total amount of Bitcoin, where you're at in life. But then post that, being able to engage with Paul, get the legal framework in South Dakota stood up, get the right trust documents in place. All of that historically hasn't necessarily been rocket science. It's just how do you put it all together and vertically integrate it is is what is nearly been impossible in this industry for folks that may only quote UN quote have two to $5,000,000 plus. So that's how you can find us that so you can schedule time. I don't know, Paul, if you want to share any more on just how to reach out, but incredibly excited to, you know, get this in front of more and more clients. Goes without saying, like we had honored build these products for ourselves, frankly because they haven't been built. So we eat our own dog food. I personally will be speaking with First Covenant and there's some members on our team on setting these up. And then it goes with the, you know, whether it's custody lending, like these products were effectively built for us because we had to go through this market and see everything and still hold on our Bitcoin and realize that if we had to go through that, then others will be in those same positions. Well, thanks, Paul. Yeah, I'm excited to kick off this partnership and we'll be doing a lot of calls together, I'm sure, with clients. So thanks for the time today and yeah, excited to help some people out here. Awesome. Thanks guys. Paul, thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that Onramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private client advisors.
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