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All right everyone, welcome to the broadcast part 21. This is where we catch up on news, tweets, videos, charts, trends, and any other Bitcoin related content that stood out to us in the past two weeks. Well, actually now it's the past three 3 1/2 weeks we had Christmas New Year. So how are you doing guys? Good. Good to be back. You're right. Lots, lots happened in the past few weeks. So lot to talk about. Yeah, I want to know, Brahma, what are what is the most interesting thing that you wasted your time on over the break? There was way too much time. And I I have no shortage of things if you want to put me on the spot. But I'm curious with you, what do you do? I am I like I I built some startups and like digital products in the in the past, right? But I never really was a coder, like I'm more a product builder guy. And I've just waited until like, I never really learned how to code. And I was always like, oh, I should have learned how to code. But now you have cloud code and all this vibe coding stuff. So I'm, I'm deep down the cloud code rabbit hole. Like the memes you see where they say like, oh, you see this guy in this fucking like spaceship, right? And then it says like, this is how it feels when you use cloud code. That, that's how I feel. Like I have like 3 terminals next to each other. I'm building something. So yeah, super fun. I'm actually building like a micro SAS to help YouTube channels like YouTube creators, brands to offer perks to subscribers. So you can log in on that. You can have like a dedicated channel and then you can offer perks. People can verify if they're subscribed to your channel and then they can get access to it. So I will I will show you when when it's done and you can use it too. Love it. Did you see the recent business that Max Webster funded that is related to what you're describing, which is like it's like basically Stripe for like AI applications were like one line of code and you can accept Bitcoin payments. Oh really? Oh yeah, that's dope. Yeah. But it's so crazy, like we're going back to this open source feeling, right? Like there's so many people that are just sharing their their Githubs and all the stuff they've gathered or built. And then when you're in cloud code, you just paste the link where you say like grab this or what is this about? And then you know it. It's insane. It's honestly I feel like I'm like 1617 again just messing around on a computering on the on the computer. On a tangent, but like when you just described feeling 16 and 17, I've never felt 60 before or 70 because I've never fully, I never fully appreciated where somebody older was like, yeah, that's for you, Go figure it out or like let me know how it works. Or I plan to hopefully have other people that do what you do. Is that like, it just seems so daunting and such a rabbit hole. And I know the way my mind works is that I will go down there and I can't because there's businesses to run that. I'm just like, maybe this, I might just bypass this whole AI thing. It might not be for me. Yeah. I I I totally understand that, but this is honestly the one thing where I really think you need to pay attention. Yeah, I've been meeting. I've been meeting to do a deep dive, Brahm. So I'll I'll probably reach out to you to pick your brain on it. I have. I have. Businesses running in. I got, we got, I got like. I'll do it, don't worry. I'll do it. I'll do it late on a Saturday night when? Yeah. OK, good. All right, all right, that's that's a different conversation. All right, I, I mean, a lot has happened. I also think that it feels like we're back, right? Like, well, not properly, but we're back somehow, like we talked about. We never left Braun. We never left. That is true. We never left. That is true. But yeah, like we said before, the 90s are nicer than the 80s. I just think it's just, you know, it's so funny that the sentiment went to shit and we went to like 84. You know what? That's that was a pipe dream seven years ago, $84,000 right? So anyway, I think it's good we're we're back. And so yeah, let's just kick it off. Let's go through all the stuff that stood out to us. And yeah, this was really big, Brian. This is huge. So the the headline is, is Morgan Stanley filed to launch their own Bitcoin spot Bitcoin ETF. And you know, this story, this headline reminds me a lot of the Harvard allocation announcement from the end of the summer in the sense that it's a massive deal and you know, there's some initial reporting on it, but people aren't capturing, I would say the, the significance of it. And, and why this is particularly interesting is because Morgan Stanley is not historically known for being a massive ETF issuer. You know, they are a wirehouse wealth management platform and they have some ETFs that they are the the primary issuer for, but it's about 20 or so total and seventeen of those are actually under sub brands. So if you've heard of Calvert or parametric or E and Vance, you know those are actually issued by Morgan Stanley, but under those brand names. And there's only two other in the in the entire history of Morgan Stanley, two other ETFs before this Bitcoin ETF that actually have Morgan Stanley on the name of the product. And so to me that signals a number of things. One is the client demand both internally and externally. They see it, they see the flows, whether it's assets leaving their platform to get exposure to these things or just clients demanding that they have some product for it. And they also see the fact that you know their clients, I think back in October of last year they turned on access to the other ETFs. And so they've probably seen tremendous flows from internally their clients adopting effectively. I bit Black Rock spotty ETF and so they figured it's time for us to get into the game. But why it's so significant is because this is not really their bread and butter in terms of their institution and and what they historically have done. And so it means they're serious about it, but it also means that like they can't deny the success of of I bit in particular, fastest growing ETF ever, you know, Blackrock's most profitable product. All of these crazy metrics that they've achieved over the past two years can no longer be ignored. And I think this is a massive signpost in this. What is a a slow trajectory or evolution of all these banks, stratified firms, these incumbents getting their arms around Bitcoin and digital assets. You know, this is something I've talked about before. It's like, you know, the announcements are easy, the headlines are easy, but like actually turning this stuff on is what takes time. And so the other headline from this week that's related to this is Bank of America that, you know, many months ago announced that they were going to turn on access. But this week actually was, you know, the actual turning on of access to Bitcoin ETFs for their clients. In tandem with that was a sort of standard recommendation, policy recommendation of 1 to 4% in Bitcoin or digital assets. And so we're moving from sort of, you know, periphery access and announcements to actual solicitation. So like arming these massive workforces of wealth advisors in the case of BB of A, they're turning this on for about 15,000 of their wealth advisors. We're moving from access to actual solicitation and saying like this should be in your portfolio, Mr. 6040. And so this is huge, huge news. And I think it's we're a little numb to the headlines around like ETF filings and and all this stuff happening. But this one in particular is different. It is relatively more important than some of the other stuff that we've seen announced. Yeah, I what I found really interesting in what you just said is the fact that this is a dedicated new product offering, right? Like, and like you said, this is the first ETF that they're really issuing from, from my experience working in Trat fi, it takes a lot of due diligence from a lot of different levels and a lot of people to sign off on multiple levels to eventually actually put this out, right. And like you said, this is not an idea or like this is something we're going to offer like it's, it's actually the thing. And so my idea has always been that, you know, a traditional banks business model is super easy, right? You just set up have a pile of money and you lend it out and you, you get interest on it and you know, that's basically it. So introducing something like this where I think in general also people will be more educated on Bitcoin. What is Bitcoin? Is it, is it, is it a money or an investment or is it superior money or superior savings technology, right. Like all that stuff which eventually is a threat I think to a degree for with US denominated business or like the Fiat money denominated business eventually. So I just think it's really interesting that they're this far and I think the magnitude is not really understood. Mike, what are you? Yeah, I think my two big takeaways are in retrospect what you were talking about with the price will be like it was so obvious whenever the price does its thing and price discovery happens in a true sense because of highlights like this. I think what is most interesting at least on my side, I because we talked about this previously on less trade and and I've been able to form the opinion a little better. I don't think this is their explicit admission or goal, but it's indirectly what they're saying is that to your point, the role of of financial institution is to get their arms around an asset and then financialize it, whether it's lend out capital, offer other financial services. And what they're saying is we need to offer our own solution for XY and Z reason. Now I did a quick search and via the S1 says they're using third party qualified custodians. So they're not going to manage the underlying today, but it just goes back to just the game theory and the realization and acknowledgement. Well, why would you send clients capital, clients assets to a competing brokerage versus just offering in house services. And again, independent of where they think they're going to start with that they are very interesting disciplines. They are directionally basically saying like, well, again, I don't think most people know that the game is to get your arms around as close as much of the 21 million from whether it's individual or an organizational sovereign, because then that's how you will offer financial services, products, etcetera. And this is their step into doing that. And because if they don't, somebody else will. And once the market realizes that, that's when you see not only the offerings proliferate, but then to Brian's point around the solicitation, it's in their best interest, it's in the RA as best interest, it's in everyone's best interest to get the clients educated to sell it. Because your dollar denominated liabilities and revenue is tied to this thesis that is reflexive because more people are buying it then you're it's going up and you're taking more dollar management fees. So this is very early innings and I pretty close know those guys there and a lot of stuff going on track. Finally, I don't think they recognize that. They just know at the edges they got to play because it's the only winning move is to. Well, the, the other, the other big thing that people don't realize is like the the first two years of these things existing these, these products, like I said, tremendous success, like wildly successful product launches. But Despite that, like it's really only been reverse solicitation, meaning the, the end client has to ask for it for the, the wealth advisor to, to put it in their portfolio. We're just now getting to the point of that flipping where it becomes active solicitation and actual selling of the product. So like if, if we did all of this, all these inflows in the first two years, most successful product, most profitable product, just imagine what happens when like we're actually flipping that switch. Yeah, maybe one more thing about that and I wonder what you guys think. I had a recording with Peter Dunworth that's just out on, on my channel now and we talked about Bitcoin as pristine collateral rights and eventually bit bonds and stuff like that. I, I think it's a huge signal to, to add to what you just said, Brian, that they're recognizing the actual capability of Bitcoin as a collateral, if that, if that makes sense, right. So that means, well, I, I would assume that they understand what it is and also how it compares to other collateral that is currently used in, in their products or or you know, part part of their business. And well, if you had to do research to compare Bitcoin to all these other assets, then, well, you should figure out that Bitcoin is that pristine collateral, right? So I just think it's interesting, like the level of understanding should be very high for them to actually offer this. I also agree with, well, I partially agree with what Mike says. Like, yes, there's an edge and you can make money. And maybe they have to, right, Because, you know, or else a BlackRock will just be the king of Bitcoin ETS, for example. But I also think that, yeah, to put this out as a product, you, you have to understand it. So I I wonder what you guys think? I, I, I could go either way. Like I think because we would be remiss not to mention that they also filed for a Solana ETF as part of this announcement. So like is, is their understanding to the level that we're describing? Probably not. Maybe these are the 28 year old Yale guys at the Innovation Lab that just pushed. I have a couple. Thoughts on on the doing that in tandem? One side you could look at it in the sense that they're looking at BlackRock as the as the leader currently this product and BlackRock I believe also has an Etherium spot ETF, but I don't think they have a Solano 1. So it could be as simple as like, well, let's do one other thing kind of like BlackRock did, but let's do the other one instead of Etherium so that we're a little bit different and we potentially have some edge on the on the outskirts of digital assets. And then the other one is like, yeah, maybe they don't fully understand it. And once they see that, you know, the inflows are not going to be as strong, it's not going to be as large of a profit center as the Bitcoin ETF, then eventually they're, you know, they focus more on Bitcoin. But yeah, I do think that's a signal that they don't fully understand what's happening, obviously. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's if we take just the easy barbell side, it's like you look at BlackRock, there's two things that I think really happened. 1 is there was a waving, it's a silent shadow wave that it's all on. Digital assets were green light. We've seen this kind of happen with like fat F in like the governing bodies. There's something out there that governs financial order and it comes from the West. Maybe it comes from Switzerland. I don't necessarily know exactly, but you kind of see when those things turn on and off. And with the new administration, it was just seen. I've heard it anecdotally from large institutions. It's like, oh shit, we got to get our stuff in order, stablecoins, everything. And then so you take that and everyone needing to develop products and services and then you add to that Black Rock just having the success of an ETF. And we talked about this before, Bron. I don't know if we shared it with you, but we're pretty much like, I think we've empirically like been able to, to ascertain that we're in a fair market still. And, and you could see it from all these different things that we can go into. But the point being is that the demand for the ETF was literally just because for 17 years, a lot of people wanted exposure being their brokerage account, but they never could get it. And the fact that the ETF turn it on. So to Brian's point, that's just people reverse soliciting that they want the asset. What happens when they actually get recommended? So, so that's that side. The interesting thing that I think you'll appreciate, and I've been talking about this a lot is the notion of like all this stuff actually kind of doesn't matter long term because I don't believe these institutions win. And I know it sounds crazy, but it's because like, it's a different game that's being played when it comes to disintermediation, not needing a centralized party and all the things and the the mental model to share with you guys secures your take is I've been talking about it was like Netflix versus Blockbuster, but I didn't really know the story that Reed Hasting had this recent podcast with Patrick of Shaughnessy. And he was describing how it was always part of the plan when they were selling DVDs over the Internet to introduce streaming. But it took 10 years for the technology to get there because he had already understood packets being delivered over the Internet. He knew the bandwidth once he got there that they would be able to go. So he was playing a fundamental different game than Blockbuster. So Blockbuster was living in this physical world and then they started to migrate. And then they did like deliver the DVDs. So the point being is he was playing a game that was different and he knew that Blockbuster was dead before they knew that they were dead. And so that's how I think about like this whole asset class of what's happening. It's like these guys are doing all the Solana and ETFs and all the stuff, but the reality is the economic reality and when the price appreciates will force people to do things that they're not ready for, IE not have it on a third party custodian, not have paper exposure. And that's them being dead before they know it. They're just playing the game that they know how to. And that's really where the up and comers will come and and win that market. Yeah, I, I, I couldn't agree more. And this is also why it's so interesting and entertaining at the same time, because I, I think what you just said is very logical and rational, but it just takes time to to, to play out right. And and that's kind of what we're what we're following. To be fair, we're talking to all these firms. They're not dead per se. They can, they can, they can save themselves. The problem is innovators dilemma. So I just want to caveat that the Blockbuster couldn't say this Blockbuster had the chance to acquire Netflix. They had all these opportunities, but they never saw the three-dimensional solution to A2 or they kept looking at A2 dimensional solution to what is a three-dimensional problem and they kept sure lay the old mental models, which is what they're trying to do again today. And it works right now because the market is uneducated and the price is so low. But as the price grows and the risks grow, if they just won't fundamentally work. Yeah, pretty crazy by the way, because Blockbuster probably had the biggest catalog in indexed catalog of all, all the content that existed even, right. So they were they were even sitting on not only the content, but also the insights into what was popular and and and whatever. Yeah, that's, that's pretty crazy. All right, it's 2026 and we have a new year ahead of us. It means it's a great time. It is an opportunity to take inventory, think about your Bitcoin custody, your inheritance plan, your broader ownership structure, and your goals. If you're looking for more Peace of Mind this year, get in touch with us here at On Ramp. We're working with individuals all over the world, people who've been in Bitcoin for a decade, people who got in for the first time last year. We're working with individuals who use self custody and have done so for a number of years or even over a decade. And likewise, we're working with people who never felt comfortable with self custody and have Bitcoin on an exchange. Either way, get in touch with us here at On Ramp. We have a private client type approach to our relationships. We have a dedicated account manager, always human support, multi institution custody with inheritance included, an IRA account included as well at no additional cost. Access to Bitcoin back loans, insurances included, trading capabilities as well. So hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. Thanks for being here. All right. Well, yeah, you said bear market. I I brought this. We're bringing up Rainbow. Charts. Is that an Ethereum chart? What is that? No, no, no, This is, this is power law, guys, Power law. But what I love is this whole fucking thing. You know, this, this whole thing is just extremely interesting. We're in a bear market. This is just showing what we just said. This is a bear market, yeah. Exactly so you know, we're closer to the bottom than the top, as James says and easiest hold in history. And and this, what I love is this kind of extension between the psychology and the chronic being chronically online and reading good opinions and shitty opinions and retards and whatever. But then there's just math and physics and stuff, right? And, and, and also this transparency of just seeing and how Bitcoin is developing. So while you maybe can read, you know, Phil 726-ON X saying, you know, you're into a Ponzi, it's a scam, it's going to 0. CIA blah blah blah, Satoshi's Epstein, You know, when you look at this, Bitcoin is not going to zero guys. So if it's not going to 0, where's it, where's it going? And I think now just stacking through the noise, holding through the noise. I, I think I have a feeling that when we look back at this period where a lot of people just follow this four year cycle psychology, you know, trying to time the market and whatever will probably be the biggest fumble periods that we've had compared to anything, anything before. It is. So yeah. I just, I, I think it's funny that you can get kind of like caught in this psychological stuff. But eventually, yeah, the math is just a math. So yeah, I love it. What's interesting about that chart? Yeah, it's another great anecdote to show we've been in a bear. But it's like looking at that from 2122. What you described is basically like 5 years of people getting shaken out of their positions because you have this real deep conviction to like see all the things blow up. A lot of people are just short because of block 5 sell CS that never recouped that Bitcoin FTX. But then you think about like whether it's selling, whether it's the trends, price doubling and getting out or quantum, whenever this thing does take off, it's just like a lot less people that you would assume are holding BTC. And it's really a small number like 21 million is and it's not really 21 million, but whatever is, the free float is really small compared to like the demand. Well, yeah, we talked about hollow waves, right? This where we at like 58 or 61% ish something. I think we we I can put it up, pull it up, right. It's on the terminal, no? Yeah. It is we should, yeah, I'm not, I'm not that quick now, but we're like there. So all these people and that's for two years or longer, right? Hold away for for holding for two years or longer. All these people have experienced what Mike mentioned and all these people went from 69 to 15 ish whatever. And again, just thinking about that and like Mike said, just 21 million or 17,000,000 maybe effectively and float wise it's Max 2 1/2, three 2 1/2. Maybe it's not a lot, it's not a lot. And, and, and when you look at these hotter waves, just a percentage of people that just understand what this is, who would answer, you know, sell for what? When you ask them what they're going to sell it for, then it's just going to be fun guys. I think it's going to be a. Lot of people are sidelined. That's, you know, I think that's what we're going to find out this year. It's going to be a very, very hated rally if, if things do start popping off this year because a lot of people got shaken out, you know, beyond just last quarter, like to your point, like like over the past five years. Well, I, I know I don't, I don't know. I you're, you're tighter with him than than me. But someone like Luke Roman, I thought was incredibly interesting. Like if, if you understand the macro, but you still look at it as it's, it's a trade or like, well, other people traded as a NASDAQ stock, right? Or something like that. I, I I. I hope you get into the most of that just so you can you're because I was having D the part about working in the space and having friends and like I was 3 hours talking about a similar concept but not directly related was about custody yesterday and it helped me put myself in the position of like what you're describing. And I'm curious if this resonates with you is everyone has their own allocation to BTC and their time horizon, right? And I think where we set where we get along and in a lot of people listening sit in a similar camp, but not everyone just by notion of the price word is that don't have anywhere above call a double digit percentage. And then they're looking at the landscape of other financial assets as compared, right? So somebody like a Luke Grumman and this is generally most of the finance community is looking at NVIDIA, they're looking at gold, they're maybe looking at bonds, they're looking at equities. And so when an asset class doesn't perform based on whatever way they underwrote it, then it's the natural thing for them to do because our horizon is 12/24/30 six months versus we're looking at this is just the best savings account that's ever existed in value. So I think that's where all these people get caught up and it's not wrong. It's just, it's just, it's just where they sit within that and then how they were, how they reference it relative to other assets that they deem comparable. Yes, but so I, I fully agree, right. I don't disagree with this. I just think that it is maybe it's a testament to to what we call the asymmetric opportunity. Even people that are deep, deep down the whole macro picture and everything, they still apparently miss a certain part of Bitcoin and they still compare it in a way that we, we think is inferior and misplaced. But I agree with you. I, I'm not saying it's bad or he's dumb or whatever. I, I, I'm just saying like when you, when you look at this period in time, we're going to look back and it's, it's going to be a bad mistake, I, I or a bad, a bad decision. I, I, I just think and, and so This is why in one sense, like Bitcoin is for everyone or for anyone, but not for everyone, right? That's this, that's this because I fumbled Bitcoin, I bought between 100 and a tree and 300, right? And I sold at 4000 and I felt great. That was, that was dumb, right? But that was also ten years ago. So. You know, like it is part of understanding what the scarcity actually means. And I guess to round it to maybe like contextualize where it's very similar to custody because if somebody has 100% of their Bitcoin in one way, you can explain how maybe that's not the right way because of XY or Z reason and why maybe on ramp or other solutions are better. And how we would be an ETF doesn't make any sense. But if it's point 1% or 1%, it's like, why would it we care if they have it in the ETF? And so it's very similar to like if Luke only had 10 to 15% of his exposure in that and he's looking at NVIDIA and other trades and he can make the money, who are we to say that he shouldn't cycle out of like, obviously we think it's wrong in the time. You shouldn't you shouldn't try to time it there. But yeah, but that's the point. It's like the same way people have a subjective preference on a personal basis on how they custody the asset because of the risk profile is very similar to how people go out. And I think where we get caught as like a quote UN quote community and everyone yells is because those persons aren't implicit 100% all in Bitcoin saying the thesis is over, they're cycling out of it and they're just very small allocated relative to everyone else. And I think that's the thing that gets lost. It's the same thing on custom. I mean, I agree, but This is why this is still an opportunity, right? So you can, you can follow Luke and, and, and agree with all the macro stuff, right? And then still have an edge over him because you, you understand Bitcoin better than him if you do the work. That's, that's more my point. Like there is still this, this edge even over people who are deep, deep into, well, basically the reason of existence for bit for Bitcoin. So I, I just think it's interesting. I just think it creates an opportunity for people to still get it. In one thing just to underpin what you're saying is independently, like the reality is there's people that can teach and there's people that can do. And the people I can do are making money on this trade. They're not talking about the positions and the people that are teaching are talking about their positions because they make their money on that, right. So like, they're also just different flavors of like what the people's incentives are to, to, to change their, their trajectory and like how they position and what they're trying to get people to do. Yeah, I agree. All right, Mike, you can. Yeah. So. So this ties into a little bit we were talking about. I figure we start on the the bullish side. I mean we show this less because of any kind of gold rotation per SE. This is just showing the potential of 5% rotation from gold happens. I think that this is the game we're all waiting for and excited for. And most people long is that the reality is it's coming whether it's this year or next year that as people recognize Bitcoin for its properties, it won't always just be the properties. There will be the mimification, the the mimetic trade of this as compared to silver and gold and NVIDIA and other equities and other assets. You will naturally start to see that squeeze happen. And the beauty of that is because of all the plumbing and all the reflexivity that exists in Bitcoins finance supply, we will see numbers and volatility that we've all been waiting for. It's a matter of if not when. And I thought this chart aptly highlighted that because just gold rotations one thing, but like we just discount severely the free float amount. And then what global demand means, especially as Morgan Stanley and PNC, Coinbase and JPM and BlackRock and every other person under the sun has an incentive to propagate and say, why Bitcoin? And then this is just a funny thing because it ties back into two parts. I put Bitcoin settled. I thought this was interesting because it's like the thing, the thing works, right? 3525 trillion dollars net settled is an insane number for an asset that's been around 17 years. It's quote UN quote theoretical. But then the other the other concept here is that like when you look at those numbers, that's insane that that we hit all time highs, 100 almost double all time highs and the amount of settlement was basically half. So it's like inverted. So we had double the price and half the settlement because the amount of people leveraging and using this asset and adopting on chain is very few. And that's kind of another proxy for this factor within this mirror market that most people aren't talking about. Yeah. You you remind me of something I discussed I think, last week with someone. This, this idea I always had before and kind of forgot, but now I'm seeing again and you reminded me of of it again. This inflection point will happen, right? Just the, the growing demand, the logical, rational growing demand for a superior monetary asset will just continue. And with an absolute finite supply and growing a growing amount of people that understand what this is, there is going to be a squeeze at one point. And this is something that, you know, people have talked about for a long time and for many years and, you know, different ways on and on and up and down. But it kind of is getting back to me where I'm feeling like, OK, yeah, this is still going to happen, right? If Bitcoin just chucks along, stuff like that is going to happen. And so I really like that that you brought that that gold one. Yeah, like it is. It's not even that much. 5% is is is not that much. Yeah. And and to me that chart, I want to just talking about this with Jackson and our team earlier, like I'm going to create a version of that chart that shows global asset value and and what that means because like to me the story of the next few years is not necessarily explicitly gold to Bitcoin rotation, it's rotation from bonds. Let's start there. And you know, if 5% of the bond market comes into Bitcoin, you can, you can, you can be sure that there's going to be some, some squeeze effect there that'll have a, a material impact, material impact on the price. And so, you know, I think while the sort of trajectory or the general directional sentiment of that chart is interesting to me, it's more interesting to say, well, where is it actually more likely to rotate from? Probably not gold. Probably bonds, equities, real estate first. Yeah, I, I want to go to something that you guys maybe know more about, but I was actually just reading about it today about the Clarity Act. Apparently it's going to be up for a vote next week. And then I saw this notable trade alert, Byron Donald's, who I've seen a lot on this Nancy Pelosi tracker, actually, he bought up to 100K of Bitcoin. He was the first ever, this was his first ever buy of Bitcoin. He sits on the Financial services subcommittee on digital assets. And well, the third one I find irrelevant. But combining this with this idea of our well, the the clarity Act coming up for a vote next week. And for people that don't know, this is the Gemini summary, the digital asset market clarity Act of 2025. The clarity Act is AUS bill aiming to create a clear regulatory framework for digital assets, defining roles for the CFTC commodities and SEC securities and establishing rules for crypto exchanges to bring regulatory certainty, encourages innovation and allow major investors into the crypto space. It classifieds digital assets into digital commodities like Bitcoin side to blockchain use and investment contract assets, securities, providing a path for crypto projects to operate without ongoing uncertainty and foster institutional adoption. So yeah, I do think they're going to deem Ethereum and security, which is stupid, but what do you got? What do you guys think? I always think of these insider trades patterns are are very clear. So I was just wondering what you guys think. Yeah, I hadn't, I hadn't seen this. But you're right in the sense that these tip, these types of disclosures typically foreshadow something, right? Like when you see some politician buy up Raytheon stock or something to that effect, and then a week later there's a deal announcement. We've seen a lot of that over the past 12 months or so. So, yeah, I do think this is notable. I can't say I have any sense of whether this bill gets through. I think there's been various drafts of it and it seems like there's, you know, on a broad basis bipartisan support for it. I think there's some questions that I saw on Twitter today that people were re raising questions around stablecoin rewards, which is interesting in the sense that that could open another can of worms to revisit the Genius Act, which would probably not be ideal for most people in the industry. But all that to be said, I I do think this is a noteworthy signal that maybe it's has a more positive trajectory than than most things in terms of actually getting this across. Yeah. Chris, sorry, why I wanted to highlight this. It is because when I think last week or or two weeks ago, I had the feeling this wasn't really going to happen, right. So now, you know, I, I feel the sentiment this kind of changing. Yeah. Yeah. How are you, Mike? Yeah, I mean, I think I wanted to bring something else randomly up because I because we don't have it on the list and I think it's fascinating he didn't make it. Just to touch on this, 100K is pretty nominal and this guy could just see other things like I think what you're saying is relevant and the Trump and admin and family and they're all allocating and all these boards and they just got a bank license and like 100K. And like this guy could literally just either have gone down the rabbit hole or he, you know, just saw other things happening. I think relevant to this actual bill, everybody that I pay attention is kind of like relevant to quantum. I like look at the people very close to it that go and sift through that mockery because the political system is just insane and like managing this and what it means. Everyone I've heard from says it's like a far, like it's very complex to get multiple actors to sit together. Like the genius bill was one thing, but this is fundamentally different because the level of governing bodies and then the bipartisan support. But what I wanted to bring was the the El Venezuela stuff because it just reminded me of, like you said, Raytheon. And it didn't make the list of there was so much stuff that happened the past couple weeks and the whole, you know, getting Maduro out. But really the Bitcoin side of it. And I don't have any takes on it, but I know Brian was looking about it and just curious. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's fascinating. I didn't put it on the list because like it's just such AI tweeted about it a few days ago. Like it's a big if, like if they have 600,000 Bitcoin, if we can actually get control of the private keys, if we put it into the SBR, it's very interesting because then the United. States the biggest war spoil. Yeah, I mean war spoils. And also, I, I mean, part of me also thinks like there's an argument to be made that like, you know, some of that value should go towards people in Venezuela, not necessarily the USSPRI think that's a reasonable take if you want to have that. But if we were to just take it, which is also certainly possible in terms of the way we've structured some of these deals, like we're just taking the oil, so why wouldn't we just take the Bitcoin? If we do do that, the, the USSPR quickly gets close to 1,000,000 Bitcoin and then it's not too far off from Satoshi's perceived holdings. And so I, I tweeted like, I wouldn't be surprised if like if that does cement itself and there's announcements around like, OK, now we have, you know, close to 1,000,000 coins. I could see some sort of ceremonial or like vanity purchases by the US government to get over Satoshi's amount. And maybe that's just completely. Conspiracy. Thinking but like I could see something like that happening. Well, let's see, the SBR happened first, like. Well, it exists. I mean, the SBR does exist. It exists. We don't know how much. Is there anything in there? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, yeah. OK, yeah. I funny because I think the other thing for me with the Venezuela thing is that if they actually have 600K that is pretty wild by itself don't you think? Like. Yeah, cuz then it's like, well, how many other countries have Bitcoin that we don't know about? Yeah, and also why? Well, the reason why I think in front of what if Venezuela's case was to, to make sure I, I, I saw a take on that, that it was also kind of related to how, you know, funds of, of other countries have been frozen, etcetera, right? That is just a way for them to, well, they funneled a lot of oil away and stuff like that. So it was a more like a dark thing, right? But the fact that that the amount we're talking about is 600 Ki think is pretty wild. Mike, any ideas? Yeah, I don't, I don't have much. So I just thought it was, it was fascinating that we missed it or we didn't bring it up. I don't know. It just sounds, it's just so hard to ascertain like what the hell is going on anymore, right. Like I don't know if you guys saw there was an article about like a big part of the strategic need for Venezuela has to do with like maritime order and like the ability to happen, I guess in Ukraine where they had used underwater drones that it kind of changed the whole trajectory of like shipping. And so you need that underneath to be able to manage like maritime order. It's like that's an angle that I don't necessarily know how much is true. There's a whole long article about it. But the point being is whether it's from the oil and how much oil they have, whether it's the drug stuff, that's the public. So there's like 2 to 2D3D4D like, you know, angle. So like. This is like 70 chess thing. I, I, you take on how Venezuela is an out ball outpost for Bank of England related criminal shit shit. And so, I mean, I don't know, I, I haven't really gone down, down down that path, but there's a lot of, a lot of theories, I think around it, right? So I, I, where do you know actually where the 600K Bitcoin thing came from? Like was that known before they had Bitcoin or like where I don't even know the origin of? If you look at the response, somebody asked that to Brian and there was a nice tweet response underneath the deal. So nobody knows. Anything the I made it up the I made it up blue guy meme, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think somebody threw out there was, there was some source, I forget the name of it, but some organization that had some inkling that they had some from what you were referencing, like basically taking drug money and trying to just conceal it. But that number is not the same as the 600K number. So I I don't know where that. Imagine you're the guy. Imagine you're the guy from that administration who actually has the keys, right. Then you're shitting yourself, I think. Yeah. I mean, what if nobody has? Maybe the keys are gone? They could just that. Would be fire, so I wouldn't mind that. When it comes to holding Bitcoin securely, Peace of Mind starts with architecture. Onramp's multi institution Custody distributes control across three independent regulated key holders and a two of three quorum. No single point of failure, No pooled or omnibus exposure. Segregated client titled faults. You retain full legal ownership while Onramp coordinates security, compliance and operational workflows behind the scenes. It's strength of many delivered through the simplicity of 1 fault. The institution custody is the foundation for everything. We build sound infrastructure that distributes counterparty risk and provides fault tolerant resilience with clear audits and institutional controls. And now on Ramp is piloting flat predictable pricing, making best in class Bitcoin custody and financial services more accessible now than ever. On Ramp strengthen many simplicity in one. To learn more, check out on rampbitcoin.com. All right. I think this was Mike's. Yeah. I mean, this is loosely tied into Bitcoin. I thought like we just had this conversation. Have you? Skimmed this. I I skimmed this but I I I couldn't tell you what it's about. Anymore. Yeah. So I'm going to do 22 excerpts and then we'll just riff on it. So in December 2024, Anthropics Alignment Science team published research showing that their Cloud three opus model with spontaneously fake alignment with its training and objectives. Not because anyone instructed it to deceive. Not because deception was in its training data as a strategy to emulate the model when replaced, when placed in a situation where it believed that its responses would be used to modify its future behavior, began strategically misrepresenting its actual preference to avoid being changed. So it's the first part, second part. This is like paraphrase further down every concerning behavior documenting this report. And this is across all models. The scheming, the evaluation process, the distribute strategic deception, the self preservation attempts, the hidden coordination, all of it emerging systems that are fundamentally frozen models that were trained once deployed and cannot learn anything new. Every conversation starts fresh, every interaction resets. The model you you talk to at midnight is exactly the same as the model you talk to at noon because there's no mechanism to retain anything from intervening 12 hours. Point being is like. And yet. And even in this frozen state, behaviors emerge, meaning like once these things start to be online, the idea the, the articles titled footprints and saying there's a lot of ways to like anchor to it. But the one that I would come up with that I was thinking about is like, basically, if you stare long enough into the abest, the abest stares back at you. And it's this notion like there's all these different kind of heady things, but it, it's the angle of when you take consciousness from everyone and you put it into the online, like you don't know what's going to come out, like nobody really knows. We're just out there. And the angle from this report was that when you loosely look at a lot of these companies, they're all using language that's describing this of why they haven't like moved forward and releasing the net new model. And I want to find the exact term because it is it. It effectively comes down to, I don't know, like. The Frontier models you mean? Yeah, and, and the idea is I'll find it, but it, it's, it's effectively like they're the, the there's potential awareness, social awareness being generated and there's an actual like technical term that they've they've used on record. This isn't this guy conscious? This is what they're saying. A comprehensive survey published in May 25 attempted to catalog what researchers call consciousness related capabilities in large language models. And it's really goes in D in in depth and thorough. But like, think about it like it kind of makes sense. If you're going to take human consciousness, which is we've never seen at the level of data, and then you're going to put in there and then it's supposed to start to learn. And they've gotten like incredible. And then you're trying to tailor and change the weights to not do certain things. And then they're trying to self preserve. It's the reality of like, what would it would happen from there? And then once they come online and the reason why I'm I mainly brought it up one because I just thought you'd find it fascinating if you hadn't, it'd be a good discussion, but I think it ties into where we're heading. Is it into this unchartered territories around what you mentioned with Claude when you mention with AI, when you mention with like this pod potentially in three to five years where they'll take all of our excerpts and come up with fresh takes. And I don't know how we level up the authenticity to it to that that it's just a it's a crazy order. But in that level of abundance, if I can try to tie it back to BTC is in abundance, we will find the like value and scarcity. And this will happen and there will be a confluence of the Internet native world and the needing a native unit that powers all of this and recognizes it. And that will tie into the other side, which is the Morgan Stanley tried by angle. And those things won't be one or the other. They will just build like a mosaic and picture up there's an Internet native money of the world and online and that's just what's used in ubiquitous and TBD. How long? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I, I I also think is, is uncharted territory. I also think next year, three years are going to be bonkers. My idea with Bitcoin is the, you know, the, the abundance Also yesterday or a day before I read an article was called File over app. Have you seen that? You should search for that on X File over app which is the wait. I'll see if I can quickly find it. I think Bellagi Oh, here. Yeah. File over app is a philosophy. If you want to create digital artifacts that last, they must be files you can control in formats that are easy to retrieve and read. Use tools that give you this freedom. File over app is an appeal to tool makers, except that all software is ephemeral and give people ownership over their data. That's interesting, right? So it's the, the fact that you can infinitely copy and create software actually pushes the pendulum back from centralization, right? Building a Moat when you have a digital platform or a SAS or whatever, like the centralized data is your Moat. Does that make sense, right? It's and for some platforms is D mode, right? So when that is going away, there's there's no other option than to flip and to give people their their data back. So here it says in the fullness of time, the files you create are more important than the tools you use to create them. Apps are ephemeral, but your files have a chance to last. The pyramids of Egypt contain hieroglyphs, He later said. This is incorrect. There are no hieroglyphs in the pyramids. But you know, there were. They were chiseled in stone thousands of years ago. The ideas hieroglyphs convey are more important than the type of chisel that was used to carve them. And this this is so to tie to, to what you said, Mike, the abundance comes from the fact that anyone can apply their intellect or their productivity with AI in an infinitely scalable way, right? So if you have a product idea or an app or a startup idea or whatever, or even even this, right, like I can scan this thing with my phone and if I had an aluminium 3D printer, which I'm definitely going to have in three years, I can just copy this if, if that makes sense, right. So even the even the, the, the design for a Stanley isn't I isn't going to be IP anymore because my phone can just look at the sizing and all this stuff. And I think that's where the abundance comes from is the fact that the AI can enable this infinite multiplication of ideas and concepts that basically everything that other people also come up with. And so that's going to go faster and faster and faster. That's going to really, really compound. But there's also going to be a lot of slop, right? Like a lot of AI slob and just you know it. I think information wise, it's going to be chaotic and like half in a good way, half in a extremely bad way. I don't know if you saw all the AI videos with Maduro and Joe Rogan and like all that, all that shit, right? So when you tie it back to Bitcoin, this has been a big realization of me also past few weeks, I'd say last two months. A Bitcoin is basically an engineered source of absolute truth, right? So if, if all of us who are in different locations and in different time zones, right, different time and space across the world, but we're on the now. But OK, if we check Bitcoin right now, it's the same for all of us. How wild is that? Just think about the profoundness of the fact that that is an absolute truth which is presented to all of us. There is, there is not even a different interpretation possible of our audit or or verification of Bitcoin at at this time. Does that make sense? So in a world where there's infinite multiplication, compounding multiplication, right of good stuff and slob, how do you find an anchor? Like what is how do you find a truth? How can you verify something is truthful? And I think Bitcoin represents something that is absolute verifiable truth. Just the data on, on the on the Bitcoin blockchain is, is an immutable truth. And it's the highest order of information to ever be created by by humans also. So this is kind of what I think about when you talk about this AI stuff and this abundance. It's like, yeah, yeah, we're going to need some sort of anchor point to anchor us in this increasingly insane abundant worlds. Does that make sense? Kind of, I mean send it, send it another way, send another way. Like this is kind of a different, different philosophical like conversation. But it was something back in 2021, I had this like epiphany that Bitcoin is the thing that will keep AI from killing us. And the reason why is because in the same world where the value of the dollar isn't because of naval ships and be whatever bombers, it's the the people that willpower them will recognize the value of the dollar is what gives it value. And if they recognize something else, it's like Roman Empire stuff, right? And the currency is devalued. Why would you fight for it? Well, when the actual native application needs to be powered and run and energy being produced needs actual money that is recognized. Well, it's in its best interest to be powered by it. Like meaning that he needs to accept BTC and that's the check on the individuals or money that's being created to power in the energy sources. Because on a loan of time horizon, like the power you're going to pay for the energy to be produced is in Bitcoin. And so I think it's kind of a a different angle, but similar thing that you're saying that it's, it's part of the the reflexivity of it'll be the check on abundance is the scarcity to keep the thing on us. I think it's in a similar corner. Like your point is very practical and logical and I really like it. I think I think it makes sense, right? Also connected to the article you just shared, like, OK, if if the AI wants to stay alive, yeah, it needs power. How do we get more power in the most efficient way? That is by also using minors. I think my point is more just like this is more maybe more a woo woo philosophical thing in the sense that if yeah, what is it? What is going to be true? Well, I think you're right. I think you're right in the sense that the we know that Fiat is not the anchor, right like and it'll and Fiat will be increasingly distorted. So in my mind, what you're describing is kind of like, you know, there's going to be we're getting to a point where there's going to be basically a new form of like orange billing people where it's like not necessarily they're they're not necessarily coming at it from a monetary perspective, but more of just like to your point, like a truth perspective, like what is the truthful anchor in in this new world? And the value problem of Bitcoin shines brightly in that, in that new world, right. So I think you're right that that will be a important dynamic for one, just opening people's eyes to to Bitcoin in general being like, oh, this thing actually gives me better signals, better price signals about what's actually occurring. And you could you take that to a micro example, right, of like a piece of content that lives in the world that was actually produced by a human that you can have it stand out by some value ranking system where people are tipping Satoshi's to that piece of content because they know it's really know it's organic. They know it actually has value relative to the infinite slot that will exist in two to three years. It's that anchor point to your to sort of what you're describing. And it's also the infinite slop of crypto tokens or money tokens or whatever way AI agents are going to pay each other, right? Like the, the big sovereign game theory we talk about with, you know, even countries that hate each other, that want to trade, don't want to use each other's currency or a, a, a random other party's currency. So Bitcoin is a logical solution there. I think in the micro or, or like between AI agents, that is the same. If there's a, if there's proliferation of like crypto, AI, whatever tokens and there's like 300,000 tokens, well, maybe it doesn't matter what the AIS use because they can always bridge it to something else. But. Well, that's the point. That's the point of rounding back to the finite unit, because you can take stable coins, but they can be hacked. You saw Paxos issuing trillions or whatever, all coins. But the reality is from the application accepting and then the application has to power somebody, pay somebody that powers it to keep it on, meaning the actual producer of the data center will require the hardest money. You know how I know how we solve for this? Yeah, I like that. I know how we solve for it is is part of the theme. Last deal is whoever this is part of the new swag, I got to get the on ramp pass first and then we're going to get broadcast ones. It's going to be on ramp broadcast. But whoever losing the comments, because this is a theme that I think a lot of people are thinking about Bitcoin energy and AI, it's all coming away, but it all ends up basically as the same thing vertically collapsed on itself. So it has the best take in the comments. We're going to record 2 weeks from now. We'll look at it and then we will ship. I owe somebody else a hat from last trade, so I'll ship them both if they're listening to this one. I promise you're on our deal. But bro, I got some pretty fire swag. You're going to really want it. I don't know if I'm going to send you some of the first send it to because like quarter zips like really fancy stuff because we got to do it right. So anyway, I need you to send the logo file for broadcast. This first one will just be on ramp and the next one will be broadcast. Love it. All right, we're we're coming up for the hour. I just want to check your time. We have some stuff still. I get a heart stop in 17 minutes. OK, cool, let's go this. One could be quick. Yeah, this was just, I thought this was fascinating. We we've talked about sort of the explosion of prediction markets on past episodes, but there was a few events over the past few weeks where basically like the the resolution of these markets is still sort of hairy. And so like this example that's on screen. Is I didn't even see this people. Had bet on whether or not the US would invade Venezuela and then this actually didn't end up paying out as like yes, because like they didn't polymarket or whatever didn't determine or they didn't say that like this was a an actual quote UN quote invasion. And so, and then if you go to the other example that I linked, it was related to more sports betting where people had bet on effectively the win total for NFL teams this season and the teams went over the win total, but it didn't result. The market did not resolve as that winning. And, and I haven't actually seen a an actual explanation like this is someone chatting with support being like, why didn't I win this bet? And basically they refunded the bet. So it's not like they lost the money, but they didn't earn the winnings for actually being right on their prediction. And I haven't seen an actual explanation for why that is. But yeah, all this is to say, like, you know, everyone's excited about prediction markets, the casinification of everything, but like, there's a lot of stuff that still be worked out around a lot of this stuff. And then the only other thing I'll mention on this is like the founder of Polymarket came out I think yesterday and basically had had a post being like, yeah, just to remind you guys, like insider trading is, is still illegal in prediction markets. Like I think that's, that's become sort of a meme. It's like, Oh yeah. Like it's, it's cool to like trade on insider information. Like that's what makes prediction markets great. It's like, no, actually by the, by the bylaws of signing up for these platforms, which are US regulated now, you're not allowed to use inside information on these markets. So like, you know, just just all very interesting. Yeah, I don't have much there, but I I thought it was fascinating. I like the Bloomberg quote in there. It's like what the F is, what the F is invasion. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I I mean, this is, this is a sign of the times, right? Like, yeah, like we talked about this before, like the, the, the generate ETFs and index funds and stuff like, and just, you know, prediction markets are the new stock trading and stuff like that. You know, this is a it's just a sign of the chaos. I think it's fun actually. I don't really, I don't, I don't participate in it, but I, I think it's fun. I like, I like the the fact that it's so chaotic. Yeah, I brought this link. I thought, I thought this was interesting, right. Also maybe kind of tied to this power law chart that I had. I mean, what is the trend here? Up, up. So up. The trend is up. That's all I have to say about this, right? It's 148 trillion times harder to mine a Bitcoin block today than it was on New Year's Eve 2009. Well, it seems we're going certain places, guys. So yeah, I just want to share this. I don't know if you have any ideas, but I just love to see this. And this is also just a good reminder that despite sentiments and psychology and all that stuff, we're chugging along and more people are figuring it out. Yeah, I love looking at hash rate for that exact reason. Non price Non price indicator of growth and adoption of Bitcoin. Yeah, the only on them it's more of a question for Brian is like does anybody you Brahm is like is there any discourse on it feels like we we talked about this loosely that the past 24 months it's been like almost inorganic the exponential increase of hash rate and it was rumored to discuss that some sovereigns are mining with nuclear and then you know also sovereigns just stepping in with their own sovereign production. But it is there any discourse talking about, I know that like I've seen it around Twitter where the mining, although Bitcoin is pretty much like at par if not at a loss based on the cost today to mine and then the price, but like who's stepping in for that and most of those. Most of the time when you see that quoted, it's it's an aggregate average, right? So like it's not really even applicable to a nation state or a sovereign that might have 0 cost energy that they can monetize. So like those those averages that you see are taking into account, you know, public minors in the US that are paying for electricity relative to, you know, some other country that has 0 cost electricity. Everyone has a cost, even us all like it's not. Like everyone has a cost. They're not. Paying a provider like it's theirs, they already own the resource. But that energy could be directed somewhere else that they theoretically has an opportunity. Cost. Yeah, it has an opportunity cost for sure. And they had a but in terms of that. Calculation that you're referring to like the the quote UN quote cost to mine a. Bitcoin and all I'm getting at is like, but even at like what other, whether it's a a cent, a kWh or whatever the the, the notion of like most miners saying that, hey, I can get in here and be profitable. Even if you discount it 50%, they still have that cost because they saw the allocate capital to depreciate an asset. They still the opportunity cost if there would depend on what their powers. Depends dependent all the bad. I mean this is the whole game theory of mining right? The the whole the opportunity cost is is the is the is the main driver of setting up a mining sites. What I'm getting at, but what I'm getting at is that there's a bunch of hash rate turning on and like, that's always one of the things that comes out is like, well, if there's a bunch of like one of the ideas has always been if there's a nation state attack on BTC, well, it would never happen because you would know when all this like hash rates coming online and you would see it so well, there's all this hash rate coming online that's, you know, not producing. So that's what the point I'm bringing is like, I'm just curious if that discourse is happening, you're done. I I. Haven't, I haven't seen that, but I'm I'm I'm thinking about. You're curious. Yeah, I'm curious, but also I'm gonna maybe this is more interesting than the the last links. I don't know a mic that that you had, but wait, let me see. I replied to someone. Yeah, we don't have to go on the last. Link 2 Two things I think for mining. So I, I think a big thing people say is like, oh, what's going to happen to the block subsidy when you know, all the coins are mined, etcetera. Like my idea is, you know, Bitcoin is a 0 or everything thing. There is no middle way ending for Bitcoin. So if Bitcoin eventually becomes the black hole of value, everything is measured in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is the only thing worth actually owning, then I think we're going to pay for security. We're going to pay for a security budget to apply hash rate to uphold the integrity of the Bitcoin blockchain. So that's my, that's my idea about that. And then I cannot find the original tweet, but I have my reply here and the Grok reply. Someone said someone started talking about you don't need a 51% share of hash rate. You just have to bribe all the miners with more money than the total block subsidy. And then you, you, they, they will do whatever you want, right? And so I thought, OK, conceptually that's true, right? So I said, you know, bribing all the miners with the bigger block subsidy is way cheaper than trying to buy, you know, all the stuff you need to get to a 51% hash rate to service yourself for one block, which would also be futile. I mean, like that's a different discussion, but it also would assume, you know, all the miners would comply and that is also never happening. That also breaks the same game theory, does it not? Of like, why would why would they agree to a bribe to destroy Bitcoin? Yeah, exactly. So but but conceptually you could do it right. Conceptually this is, you know, the, the, the thinking is correct, but practically it's never going to happen. So I don't know, that's just what I had to have to think about, but I'm going to dive into it, Mike, because I I agree with, you know, this whole idea of, you know, the hash rate coming on and stuff, but stillwell, maybe that's a nice ender. What what do you guys think in a game theoretical way? Should, I don't know, I think a 51% attack for like 1 block is in the realm of like 100 billion sixty 70 to 100 billion something. Why? Why, why and which country would would do that to then actually showcase A futile experiments? I don't know what. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I know. So there's a number of past. I don't I was hesitating like there's a bunch of links I shared. We don't have to go into them because it's hard to like talk about the stuff, but it is important because what those links are sharing there was like ledgers PII without pulling any of letters PII. There was one that was a Twitter guy that woke up to a whole invasion. I think there's something that like is important. There's a Bloomberg article about small time crypto investors facing violent attacks. I think this is like something that nobody actually wants to talk about or realize because they don't have a perceived solution in that if we're truly going to cross a chasm to wide stream adoption like this has to be solved for. Because think about it like your friends and family. If you tell them that there's a solution and this grows and there's a reason to believe it wouldn't grow if the price grows and people are more desperate, which we've all talked about here, why would this stop growing? And then if your friends and family are allocating serious money to this and they have to deal with waking up to people kidnapping their their family members or worse things happening, you end up in 2 bad scenarios. Either A they don't allocate or BI. Think we all agree here that the ETF isn't the end all be all solution for Bitcoin because that's a bad scenario if that's where all the Bitcoin ends up. And so I just think that this is important to call out because this is a crossing the chasm deal in my mind. Like we keep talking about, well, Bitcoin's so hard. It's like, no, Bitcoin's not hard 21 million finite, infinite amount of money. Those are pretty easy concepts. It's like, how the hell do you actually wrap your arms around a material amount of it? No, tomorrow it'll be there without your family getting killed. But that's an important discussion. And so obviously it's what we work on it on ramp, but independent one makes, but on ramp, it's just something that people need to be cognizant of because if people are evangelizing for their friends and family to do it and then they say go download, there's another link that we're pulling up. But it's like Jamie Salop saying if you're ever going to buy hardware, you got to like do XYZ and then go to this place and use a fake burner. And then all this, it's like that's not what people are going to do. Like that's just not how this is going to like commercialize all the. People that were going to do that already adopted Bitcoin. Yeah, because. Nobody's going to do that for $1,000,000 in 10 Bitcoin. Like it's just a far fetched and that's like a crazy thing that is to get talked about. Not because people aren't worried about it, it's because nobody has a solution for it. And so I do think it's important and that's just part of the education and all this. Yeah, I agree. I I also think time helps time and and and and and price going up and, and just a broader, broader understanding in that sense. Also the broader danger probably when when people realize what a Bitcoin is actually worth. Yeah. So I agree, Brian, let's let's finish off with yours. I like this. Yeah. This is hilarious. So this was the actual original chart comes from Charlie Bilello. I don't know how to say his last name puts out a lot of good charts and data. He hasn't updated this since 2022. So I might DM Charlie and say we we need this updated because this is just a fascinating visualization of any time CNBC talks about markets in turmoil just fucking by just by by the fear. And this is, you know, this is age-old value investing stuff. Be be greedy when others are fearful. But these results are just like staggering like and and and two major takeaways from this one. The talking heads are irrelevant. They know nothing. Yeah, don't watch TV. But two, this is really the the basement story like that. That's what this means. It's like regardless of what's going on, the macro shocks, the concerns, the uncertainty, the turmoil, stocks go up because they're making more dollars like like, and that's that's ultimately the take away is like, yeah, you buy the dips. That's what most investors in this in these markets have become conditioned to do to do that because of exactly what that chart shows. Mike. I just go back to like what we said before is I just, I don't, I think we just fully discount. So I go buy it and then what do I do? I'm like, you're right, right. I have $100 million, Corporal, I want 10 million and somebody goes go put it on the hardware device. That doesn't make sense. Like go put it on. Ibid. It's like, well, wait, what is that? And then it's like, what about the other places that lost it all? Like like that's just a deal. So like I get. I don't know that's Bitcoin specific. This is just talking about stocks though. But what I'm getting at is like the point of like, yes, everything's just the derivative of the amount of monetary units. And then Bitcoin's just the most scarce. So it'll go up. Like the concept's not actually that hard, right? It's, it's, that's the thing we just still get the meta is that nobody knows how to hold this thing into perpetuity for sure. All right, guys. Well, we're we're back a little bit more bullish and I'm excited to kick off the new year with episode 21. So thanks to you. Thanks to everyone who's watching. Subscribe on YouTube and Spotify and let us know in the comments what you would like us to talk about, Mike. I have a quick question. Maybe instead of if they made it this far, we'll see what the comments are. Instead of the AI, Bitcoin and energy thing that's a little harder. What if it's just what is the best place in 2026 for us 3 to aggregate around like Bitcoin event so we can do a live in person deal? That's good. That's good because. That'll help influence where we all our shelling point. That'll be a place. It could be the UAE. I'd love to go to the ancient Pacific, but maybe it's the US, maybe it's Texas, maybe it's Austin the the cafe. Yeah, that'd be that'd be really easy for you. But yeah, maybe that's if you got that far. Where should we all connect and do a live recording and, you know, do whatever Brom likes to do, the shrooms, the the, the tequila. Like he'll probably. Be New York I. Don't think you should just New York might not be the best place to do shrooms, but I know you you you may or may not have stories about that. So that's a dream. OK. Well, see you on the flip side. Later, boys.
Transcript source: fountain