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It all comes down to computers communicating. The information superhighway can be a confusing mix of on ramps and off ramps. Bitcoin is worthless artificial gold. Is it still rat poison? Probably rat poison squared. We need to get into the world of OK, this is actually foundational technology. What the Internet of Money does is it creates a single network which can do a microtransaction to a giga transaction. The Internet is going to be one of the major forces for reducing the role of government. The one thing that's missing, but that will soon be developed is a reliable E cash. Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Final Settlement, a podcast from On Ramp Media. On today's show, we're joined by Ryan McLeod, a chemical technologist and Bitcoin enthusiast who works in the nuclear industry. We discuss the potential of nuclear power, the utility of Bitcoin mining, and the synergistic relationship between the two industries. Ryan explains the challenges and misconceptions surrounding nuclear power, including cost and safety concerns, highlighting the benefits of small modular reactors, which can be factory built and commissioned in shorter time frames. The conversation touches on the global interest in nuclear power and the technological competition between different countries. We explore how Bitcoin mining can complement the build out of nuclear power plants and contribute to energy independence. Nuclear power provides a reliable and efficient source of energy, while Bitcoin mining offers a way to utilize excess energy and bootstrap the build out of energy capacity. The integration of Bitcoin mining with nuclear power can create a more stable and resilient grid, providing a path towards energy independence and abundant future. And now, time for the show. And we're live. Welcome back to Final Settlement. Very excited for for this week's episode. On the show today we have Ryan McLeod, who is a chemical technologist by trade and for the past decade or so has worked at Canadian nuclear laboratories and he also happens to be a Bitcoiner. But the reason I'm, I'm really excited for this combo is because you know, thinking about sort of the purpose of this podcast in many ways is to show Bitcoin as a technology, as a, as a protocol that people are are leveraging in the real world and, and using for various forms of utility. And, and one thing that we haven't really touched on thus far throughout the episodes is, is the Bitcoin mining space. And why that is really in my mind, one of the greatest examples of bitcoins utility in the real world in the sense that, you know, we now as as a human species have the ability to monetize energy in a location agnostic way, which was never previously possible. And I think that itself is a is a form of utility for, for Bitcoin mining that is completely outside in the realm of of price or number go up or, you know, the digital gold thesis, if you will. And so very excited to talk not only about Bitcoin mining, but about the nuclear space, which Ryan is a domain expert on. And and so welcome to the show, Ryan. Glad to have. You thanks for the introduction, Brian. I, I certainly wouldn't call myself too much of an expert. Just like with Bitcoin, it's this is an endless rabbit hole and you can immerse yourself in it for as long as you want and you will never see the end of it. I am lucky in my position that I have exposure to many nuclear scientists, so I can always pick their brains on many of these topics. And my interest is predominantly on the economic side of these things. Like we've got many great scientists trying to solve all of the the new challenges with fuels and materials and getting the SMRS to commercial stage and also supporting the existing reactor fleet like Canada's. I've got where I'm from in Ontario, we have 20 operating nuclear reactors at three sites and that's provides 60% of the power for the entire province of Ontario. And we often export a lot of that to the states in the Northeast corridor along with Quebec often. But yeah, mining is really what got me attracted to Bitcoin in the 1st place. Like I was already kind of primed to understand Bitcoin. Like I'd watched the the Zeitgeist movies back in the day. I was following with Ron Paul in the end of the Fed movement. Max Keiser came up every once in a while in the alternative media that I was paying attention to at the time, and then never pulled the trigger. And then or years later, I cashed out some Bitcoin from an online poker site. And then it was 21, the, the run up in Christmas 21. That was really grabbed my attention. And then I quickly went, went off the deep end with Max's podcast. And then it was when I was introduced to Steve Barber and Adam Oh, did two consecutive podcasts around them at that time talking about what they're doing with stranded power. And then that just got me really interested in mining. I'm telling my wife all about it and she's it's like, oh, that's great. You found a new hobby. That's very interesting. Hopefully you can find some friends to talk about it because you've talked about it a lot and it can get annoying. But then I, but it was good though, because I, I gave her enough of an education on this that when Elon Musk started crapping on Bitcoin's energy usage on the, the backside of that spring run up, she just threw out the idea of just, if the type of energy that Bitcoin mining is using is a problem, why don't we focus more attention on mining Bitcoin with nuclear power? And at the time, I was kind of paying attention, like I wasn't super immersed in it like I was now with like nuclear advocacy and learning everything I can about the industry. But I was aware that we had a plan to develop small modular reactors that we're currently refurbishing our entire fleet to, to extend it well into the 60s. That around America, many of their reactors were being chosen to retire them instead of making the effort to try and refurbish them and extend their lives like Indian Point, Palisades, Pilgrim, Vermont, Yankee, San Onofre. And then they seemed to draw a line at Diablo Canyon in California. And that's where they kind of said, no, no more of these reactors being shut down. But around that time, me paying attention to Bitcoin, it seemed like whenever nuclear power got brought up in the context of Bitcoin mining, like at the conference or just the mining panels or whatever, it was always with the perspective that nuclear's kind of on its downturn, the reactors are being shut down. There's not any anything invigorating the industry. And then all of the sudden world events started to happen and now all eyes are on nuclear over the last two or three years. And everybody is very aggressively looking at it as a critical piece of the infrastructure architecture for many nations to secure their energy futures. Because it's just, it's a superior form of energy generation. It takes a lot of capital to pull it off and it takes a lot of a lot of alignment across a lot of stakeholders. But when it is operational, it provides so much value to the the countries that it is that hosted that they they can see massive increases in their GDP from using it. And then you can see the countries that have had strange relationships with nuclear power, like Germany's an interesting one, retiring their fleet. Meanwhile, the accident happened in Japan and Japan is now actively trying to return their fleet to service as fast as they possibly can because the cost of importing natural gas is killing their population. And it's not a fun experience for an aging demographic when they have to start choosing between rent and heat and food when in these trying times, especially when you guys are familiar with the the financial situation over there. Like their currency is a complete basket case. So it's going to be interesting to see how they can pull this off. But I, I would actually like to see more about them. There was talk that somebody in TEPCO, Tokyo Electric Power Company, was investigating Bitcoin mining. So I haven't seen anything else about that since then. That was just like one, like little news report about two years ago, but I don't know, maybe something's bubbling behind the scenes. At On Ramp, we believe that Bitcoin will be the most important asset to own in the 21st century. Our multi institution custody solution is the safest and most secure way to ensure that your Bitcoin remains in your in your family's possession for decades to come. Multi institution custody maximizes security and minimizes counterparty risk. Leveraging Bitcoin's native properties to eliminate single points of failure that have historically complicated Bitcoin ownership on Ramp provides Peace of Mind for your Bitcoin journey. For more information. Check us out at on rampbitcoin.com. You brought up a lot of good points in there. I think one for me, it's been very interesting to sort of observe nuclear from afar over the past few years. And to your point, I think the Overton window is shifting a little bit with respect to recognizing that this is, you know, a viable path towards creating energy independence. And and the notion of energy independence has become more and more of a hot button issue as we've seen all the issues sort of with fossil fuels and having to rely on on other countries for the, you know, vast, vast majority of your energy. I think it's becoming more and more top of mind. But I think the reason why that's so interesting is because for so long it was, you know, nuclear as a whole was sort of demonized. And for various reasons that I would love you to go through in terms of, you know, why, why were we in a place prior to the past couple years where people effectively dismiss this as not a viable solution? And I guess what has changed over the past couple years that have, you know, in your mind open, open people's eyes to the the merits of a nuclear strategy? Yeah, there's there's many factors that go into play to explain why why nuclear has been having a tough go of things like bureaucracies. Definitely one of them. There's very well funded opposition to nuclear power, whether that's coming from like the oil and gas industry or like other competing industries that don't want to see as much nuclear power on the grid because it cuts into their market share. Even though like you talk to a lot of people in these industries and they're very supportive of like, yeah, all we we need the power. But the incentives and how all of these these interests financially interact starts to create interesting, interesting feedback that results in nuclear power getting demonized disproportionately to compare to other technologies. And there's a lot of lot of scrutiny like radiation. It is it is an industrial hazard like many other industrial hazards. Like we know how to handle it. We know how to to safely manage fuel and radiation products. But because of that, like radiation is a contentious topic in the public. Many people raised watching Simpsons are familiar with with how they portray nuclear power, which is not the most accurate depiction. There's like many instances in just in popular media that they just, they do not accurately portray it. And then it creates an anchoring bias in a lot of people's minds. And then there's also the fact that like the Cold War happened. So there's an entire generation of people that have that trauma to affect their their decision making and their perspective on nuclear power. But there's a whole new generation that sees it as an opportunity to build for the future. So that is very, very refreshing to see that that the youth are taking an interest in a technology that can be greatly beneficial to them because especially since they don't get exposed to much nuclear power unless they actually seek it out in school. So much like when, when you're familiar with how many people go through an economics class and never learn anything about Austrian economics, like you can go through entire environmentalist courses, entire like energy infrastructure courses and you'll have like just a brief little talk about nuclear power and like, oh, it's there. And but let's focus on windmills and solar panel because it's free when it's generating electricity. And like there's a whole host of reasons why I disagree with a lot of the assertion that we can power a high tech society on wind solar and mostly has to do with like it. It's very challenging to get power to where it needs to be when, when it needs to be there. That is where the costs of wind and solar start to to ramp up. But if you just look at them stand alone, they they can look great if it's just a windmill in the middle of nowhere with batteries to back it up and you and they they can definitely look like they've got good economics. But as soon as you start having tie that into the grid, things get a lot more complicated. And one of those reasons, it's something that I was reading up recently. It's inertia is an interesting concept on the grid that most people aren't familiar with. And it't provided by thousands and thousands of spinning machines synchronized at the exact same frequency. So that's the the 60 Hertz that most people hear about when that when someone's talking about the grid frequency that they try to maintain. So that's all of these spinning machines, whether it's your, your hydro generators, your, your coal plants, gas plants, nuclear power plants, they all spin at 60 Hertz and they all synchronize with each other. And so if you're bringing new generation onto the grid, it has to synchronize with that 60 Hertz. The type of electricity that's generated from the windmills and from solar panels doesn't synchronize with that. So then that's another added cost that they have to bring into this this equation in order to like properly synchronize with the rest of the system. So then it creates this dynamic where some of their advocates are just like, well, if we just do away with the old system and we create a new system, we can create a better system. But it it doesn't quite work like that when you're trying to adapt something that was built over many, many decades and is very, very complex, like a grid that serves like hundreds of millions of people, especially in North America. It doesn't just, you can't just change it with a visionary new technology. It has to have a period of adaptation. And what is being seen a lot right now is as they more aggressively push these like non synchronous generation sources onto the grid, the they are seeing that the the diminishing returns are like that would naturally be. There aren't really manifesting because there is so much subsidies, so much tax credits, so much revenue that they can collect that is unrelated to actually selling power on the grid that it starts creating a lot of distortions in the pricing market. So then it doesn't give proper signals to when new generation should be built. It doesn't it's, it just creates a lot of disruption in the markets and it makes it very challenging for the engineers that are actually responsible for taking care of these systems and making sure that they operate in a reliable fashion is incredibly like it's an increasing challenge for them, which then just increases more costs. So it's. Sorry, that was a. Little bit there. No, that that's helpful, helpful context. I'm curious if you could drill down a little bit more into the cost, right, because I think there's general misconceptions around the cost of some of things like wind and solar because they have been heavily subsidized to your point. So if the if in the absence of that, you know, how would you sort of compare and contrast the cost of building out capacity in, you know, wind and solar versus building out capacity in in nuclear? Because I would also imagine and I would, I would curious your insights on this as well as like over the past few decades, like I would imagine the cost of building out nuclear capacity have also come down and improved and technology as as advanced in that sense that it is more realistic to build out this, you know, much more efficient and dense version of of energy capacity. So curious, any thoughts on just like you know, if in the absence of subsidies for for wind and solar, like what would that sort of cost benefit analysis look like relative to something like nuclear? Like, I wish it was the case that the cost of nuclear is coming down and in some ways it kind of is. But the one big failure in the West was not sustaining the capabilities as well as they should have. So that's like Vogel is a pretty good example of trying to restart a program that was kind of allowed to atrophy. So like, like the US had lots of experience building nuclear reactors and in, in my opinion, one of the, one of the flaws of that system is building bespoke reactors that don't all match with each other. Whereas like in Ontario and France, they just picked 1 reactor design and then just evolutions of that design. Whereas in the United States, you've got reactor sites where there's two different reactors on the same site. So you can't even take the same operator out of one reactor to operate the other one. Whereas you can take an operator out of a Bruce reactor and put them into a Darlington reactor and it it wouldn't even make a difference. They'd be able they'd be like 90% up to speed. Whereas it would be a considerably different situation in in AUS reactor like Three mile Island is a perfect example. They couldn't they couldn't peel operators from the other reactors to respond to the issue that they were having in the run reactor that had that was having issues back in the 70s. But that that separate topic. But yeah, the thing about the cost of nuclear is it's so front loaded. There's the licensing, there's the engineering, everything gets packed up front. And then they also have to be able to account for their entire life cycle, like what they're going to do with the waste, what they're going to do with the decommissioning. So a lot of the capital in building nuclear is very heavily front loaded. So then that makes it disproportionately more challenging them for them to recover those capital costs in the same sort of time frame. So if investors just trying to to turn around their capital within 510 years and then you can just see like well we'll just build these windmills and solar panels, we'll take the protection production tax credits, just harvest those for 10 years and then you, yeah, you move on to a new project. Whereas with nuclear it requires a much longer time horizon thinking in like multi generational, like 40 year year periods that these systems are going to be operational like Canada, like our reactors, full life will probably be about 80 to 90 years for the ones that we're refurbishing right now. So like we can get almost a century out of these things. It's basically the same idea of doing like a resto mod. Are you guys familiar with that concept where they take like an old car, replace, replace all the old insides and and give it give it new brakes, new transmission, new yeah, new new components. So it's basically on the outside it still looks like the same old machine, but on the inside it's got brand new, everything's been refreshed and it should be able to remain operating for another 40 plus years if it's maintained well, which we have a very robust program here in Ontario that we, we, we take good care of these machines because they provide a lot of value to us and we need to build more of them in order to drive those costs down. But like a lot, a lot of that comes to like the way that they're financed with, with, yeah, like with subsidies and stuff. Because that creates all these distortions in the markets. Because now that subsidies are a thing, everyone's competing for the subsidies instead of trying to compete for like actual market share. Because that's basically what Fiat has done to this entire system. It's it's rewards those who are better at ingratiating themselves with politics rather than who can actually provide a better service to the market. Like luckily like we're we're seeing. Alignment in politics, like Senator Granholm just came out the other day and saying that we need 98 more Vogels, which is like a very, very positive for the industry. But like that's also going to require a lot of capital. That's going to require a lot of alignment. And I and it's a very good thing for them to do that because now that Vogel's been done, they've learned from the experience of building Vogel, which had a lot of trials and tribulations. If anyone wants to do a deep dive on that, the Decoupled podcast did a four part series that explains the whole Vogel saga from start to finish and all of the the reasons why it was challenged, whether it's regulatory bureaucracy, just trying to start a project without a finished plan and then parts move on when you're when things start moving and then stakeholders start getting upset with each other because timelines aren't being met. And it it got to be a bit of a mess. Like Westinghouse almost went bankrupt and now they're partially owned by uranium mining company Kamiko's. It's one of our companies up here in Canada that provides a lot of high quality uranium for our fleet and for the a lot of the American fleet. And they're actually hoping they're planning on expanding our extraction capabilities for uranium because they're is clearly a lot of demand for it. So we are aggressively trying to ramp up our fuel production capabilities, especially now that Russia is being cut off from the rest of the world. So Russia was the primary enriched uranium provider for most of the world's fleet until two years ago. And so now everyone is frantically trying to recalibrate their, their fuel cycles so that we can produce as much as what we can in America and Europe and, and Canada. But like luckily in Canada, that is our unique feature of our reactors that is we don't actually need to enrich the fuel. We can, we just have to refine it into the fuel rods. But the, the natural isotopic ratio that it's found in, in when it's extracted from the ground can be used in our reactors because of the way that we use heavy water, which is a unique feature that gives us an, an, an advantage in that we can use our own fuel without having to rely on external parties. So we can have our entire cycle from cradle to grave contained within Canada. So that is one of our, the things that we we proudly like to brag about every once in a while. And but yeah, it's just learning from the mistakes, putting it into action, getting a supply chain and a labor force back in line and getting people, getting more people interested in being a part of this technology. Like we need labourers, we need engineers, we need trades people, we need we need management, we need sales people. We need like more than anything, we need a lot of people that are really good at public communications because that has been one of nuclear power's biggest challenges is that the only time you ever hear about it is when something goes wrong. So public relations needs to be a lot more aggressive getting the message that the pro nuclear message out there. And all of the great things we can do beyond even just power generation, like because like radio, we do tons of radio isotope research here at our site at Canadian nuclear labs for medical applications, for sterilization, for different agriculture applications. There's dozens of different isotopes that can only be created in the environment that a nuclear reactor provides. So it's there's, there's a lot more to this industry than just generating power. So that and that that makes an interesting argument when you do start getting into like what what's superior and energy generating system, the nuclear or wind and solar or, or like all the other competitors. But it's not an even match because nuclear flick, for one thing, the power density is so outrageously superior. And then the fact that there's all kinds of other peripheral things that nuclear power can do that wind and solar can't even touch. And, and the other fact that you can just drop them, you can just replace a coal plant with a nuclear power plant because the transmission infrastructure is better aligned for a like a large thermal plant rather than building out large, large fields of hundreds of thousands of acres of windmills and solar panels. And then even once you have all of that installed, like you need five times of it at least, probably even more to compare to what the output you get from a nuclear power plant. And just, and then it's just the when that power needs to be consumed, because then you run into nuclear power's biggest economic flaw is that they generate so much power that if you're not capturing value from those electrons, then you're leading potential revenue. So if you can find a clever way to make sure that your price floor is set above 0, you can very significantly change the like the economic case for how nuclear power is generated and how, how it interacts with the grid. Because now we can have a new option where we can sell to the grid or we can sell through a digital conduit that it can extract that value and to make it available to anywhere in the world very, very quickly. Because a lot of the other technologies that they're talking about for doing that and they're like great technologies, but they, they don't go to the same places that the Bitcoin miners can go. Like there's going to be lots of attention on hydrogen electrolyzers. There's lots of attention on desalina tion. There's a lot of excitement about the potential of doing synthetic fuels. So basically you can do if you can capture the molecules from the air, if you can capture carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, if you've got methane available to you, you can combine those into anything if you have the power to do it, which at the moment it is way too more costly than it's worth. It's more economical to just extract those hydrocarbons from the ground, but there is a time in the not too distant future when we have so much power available to us that we will be able to just synthetically create whatever hydrocarbons we want just from. Yeah, extracting the resources from the atmosphere. And I think that we are going to get there because Bitcoin mining is going to amplify the deployment of nuclear power much faster than we could have anticipated. That the. Really the only thing that's going to limit it are the deployment of these things is how quickly they can get built and and configured. Like once they get to their commercial state and they start getting momentum, like Bitcoin mining is going to allow their order books to get a lot more filled up. They're going to have a lot more investor confidence because they know they're going to be getting those RO is regardless of where we start deploying these things, but probably getting a little ahead of myself because. And we can. Yeah, we. Expose that was a that was a nice a nice natural segue to sort of the the synergies between nuclear and Bitcoin that we certainly want want to touch on. Just going back to something you said earlier, though, I'm curious, you know, to me, like observing from afar, the big push back to nuclear has been won the cost and then to the safety and you sort of alluded to the safety component there and how, you know, for the most part that might be more narrative driven and reality. So like, how do you yourself sort of handicap the, you know, the obvious benefits of this, you know, super dense form of energy versus the theoretical safety concerns or risks around, you know, something going wrong. And that's to your point, what everyone always sort of Harkins back to is like, that's why we've sort of ignored this nuclear thing for so long is because, you know, something could go terribly wrong and and make it all not worth it. So I guess maybe a little bit more color on on the safety side of things and then we can dive into the the synergies with Bitcoin mining. Yeah, like there's no denying like working with radiation hazards, hazards and and can be dangerous under the the right circumstances. But like I mentioned earlier, it's it's an industrial hazard that we know how to manage, we know how to protect ourselves from time, distance and shielding are the the main three things that get stressed to everybody that works here. So if you are going to be exposed to any radiation whatsoever, you first want to limit the amount of time and then the distance and put as much shielding as you can between you and that object. And sometimes you don't always have the option to have shielding. So you have to limit the other factors. And it it really depends on the job that you're doing. So like like I get exposed to like in my job, maybe one millisievert of radiation a year, which is a modest amount for somebody that works in the industry. But then you, you guys, if you, if you're travelling and flying, you probably get exposed to more radiation than I do. And I work with this stuff like someone actually didn't experience experiment recently where they wore a dosimeter. They travelled all the way from America to Japan to go and tour and see the the blown out reactor. And they flew all the way there, read their their radiation readings while they were flying. And then it went back down and then they got to the reactor. You'd see the radiation readings come back up. But in comparison, I got far more exposure to radiation from flying than they were standing 50 meters from a blown out nuclear reactor. So it's the the hazard is just because of the poor understanding of radiation in the technology. It it gets overly sensationalized when it happens because Fukushima itself it it was actually a hydrogen explosion. Like it technically wasn't a nuclear explosion. Like what happened was they weren't able to cool it. Then they created a lot of heat within their, their pressure tubes. And then those pressure tubes, they release hydrogen and then the hydrogen created the, the explosion once it, once it, the, the pressure had exceeded what the containment Dome could could handle. And then it just did blew, blew up the roof. And then that, that carries with it of small amounts of radio radiological material. So that, that was the, the major, major hazard that everyone was concerned with, which when people go back and revisit that incident, there was far more casualties related to the evacuation than the actual event itself. And there's like there's people that live within 100 meters of that, that site there, there's a 711 like right around the corner. Like they, they give tour. It's a, it's a tourist site now more than anything. And they're, and I actually had the opportunity to tour one of the other reactor sites in Japan where they showed us that they're turning those sites into fortresses. They've built 20m tall, 3M thick concrete walls around the entire facility. And they've put their backup generators on floating platforms. So if they ever get hit with another tsunami, those reactor sites will probably be the safest locations on the entire island. So they're, they're not screwing around, they're putting a lot of money into this and they are determined to get their nuclear reactor fleet back operating because it's going to be greatly beneficial to their, to the economics of their country that's already struggling and in in enough ways already. I yeah. And then just like can do like the reactor type that I'm most familiar with, that's the Canadian one. Like it was designed in such a way that it can't even meltdown. Like if there was an incident that that would happen, there's a multiple redundancy layers where it would just completely kill the reaction. It would drop the fuel rods, it would poison the reactor and it would completely eliminate any reaction whatsoever if it started to get out of control, which it would be a costly incident, but it would also prevent any any unintentional release of radiological materials should there ever be like an event at a in a candy reactor. So they're actually touted as the these safest reactor design on the market and which is disappointing that we haven't continued to build anymore. But that may turn around in the not too distant future because there's a contract with Romania to complete two of their reactors because Romania actually owns two can do reactors and they're planning on building another two that were started 20 something years ago. But then they kind of got put on the back burner during the the contentiousness of the overthrow of the Ceausescu government. So they that's kind of been set aside for a while, but now it's being financed and revisited. And there's at least a dozen other countries in Europe that are very eager to get into nuclear power, like despite what the Germany's objections to it might be. And then Germany's even an interesting case because it turned out that the German Greens recently fraudulently submitted a, they, they manipulated the data in a report that they had submitted to a panel that was exploring whether or not Germany should should keep or retire their nuclear reactor fleet. And it only just came out like two months ago that that they had kind of played the shenanigans. But it also like it, it also shows like being bitcoiners, like did nobody like verify this? Like you, you, you know that these people have a vehement opposition to this technology. They came in with a report that says, yes, tech, this technology, nuclear power bad shut it down and nobody bought bothered to check their work. And then two like 3-4 years later, someone checks their work And it's like, you know, they, they kind of lied here guys. And we shouldn't have listened to them and shouldn't have What's the what's? The response? Been there. Now that that has come out. There's a lot more politicians that are eagerly fighting to bring them back online, but part of their problem is there was such an eagerness to retire them that some have been brought to a decommissioned to a state where it's going to take minimum 2-3 years to bring them back operational. Like they might be lucky and the last ones that they brought down might be able to come back, but most of their fleet is pretty much mothballed and it's not, it's going to take a lot of work to bring them back to life, which I'm sure most of Europe would be very happy if they did because like France is having to pick up the slack for basically everybody because they're the ones with all the nuclear capacity. They, they, they had the foresight decades ago to make sure that they had everything that they needed to ensure their energy security in the future. But even then, France is having an interesting situation with some of their uranium mining sites throughout Africa, as many African nations at the moment are kind of trying to throw off that French boots that's been on them for many, many decades. So that is creating an interesting dynamic with with French, with France and their their resources that they're typically used to having access to. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out going forward because Africa is also very eager to get nuclear power. Like I was just in Ghana for the conference the day that the the COP conference was happening in 20 countries pledged to expand nuclear power by 3X by the 20 fifties. And Ghana was one of the countries that had signed on to that. But then the other part that I see is that if America and Europe and Canada want to participate in the African markets, they're going to have to get their act together because the Chinese and Russians are already eating our lunch. They're they've already been forming relationships. They've already got a lot of, lot of big plans. I just saw like something like Rosa Tom is going to be working with Vietnam in to help them. They've got plans for floating nuclear barges for, for Guinea. There's Yeah, Rosa, Tom has been very, very busy building relationships throughout the world with nations that aren't, aren't overly concerned about what's happening in Ukraine. They just want a quality product they can to help them sustain themselves and give them a robust infrastructure that they can build their futures upon. So it's going to be it's going to be interesting seeing how all of these, these dynamics play out as as this market starts to mature. Because like once, once the SMRS start coming onto the market, we're going to see a lot more, a lot more aggressive competition in, in getting these, these out there. Because especially if you've got multiple different designs that are kind of competing in the same markets, there's going, there's going to be a few that probably don't ever even make it to that commercial state because you, you don't, we won't need 4 different types of reactors that all are applying to the same like application, whether it's heat or like small off grid scenarios. Like we definitely want a few options, but we don't need, we don't need 4-5 MW reactors. We need like 15 MW reactor. We don't need, we don't need to explore too much of the, the molten salt reactors beyond just one design that's really, really capable of reprocessing like spent fuel and using recycled fuel as its primary fuel like, But there's that that goes beyond like the American markets, the Russian markets, Chinese markets, everyone's trying to build these, these reactors and get them out on to the world market. So it is very, very exciting time and nuclear power right now. And like some of these, these these companies are very aggressive to aggressively trying to have something for the market by the 30s. And that's, that's pretty optimistic at this point. But I, I think with the alignment of stakeholders and like policy makers right now that getting behind this, we've got a real chance to have some of these, these technologies ready, ready for prime time by yeah, within the next 5-6 years. So that. That leads perfectly into what I was about to ask mentioned SMR is a few times you mind defining you know what an SMR is how how it changes you know speed to build and you know where these might be able to be these reactors be able to be located maybe just dive in a bit over there yeah the. SMR stands for the Small Modular Reactor. It's basically a catch all for any reactor design that's under 300 megawatts. And the main idea is they want to be able to factory build the major components so that they can just quickly ship them to site and then have them commissioned in a very short time frame. Like the very, very small ones down in the 510 MW range. They're hoping that those can just be transported on a truck bed dropped off on site, operating within six months. The as they start getting bigger, that timeline starts expanding. But they're like hoping, like the idea is a 300 MW reactor will take about two years to, from, from shovels in the ground to commissioning like, and you'll, you'll have to have licensing and your site preparation that will all be done long before shovels are in the ground. But that's all preliminary work. But once, once the sites are, have been approved and all the environmental assessments are done, they, yeah, they're, they're hoping that these reactors can be stood up within like two, 2-3 years Max compared to the traditional reactors that we've, we've seen come up like Vogel took like 15 years and the, the one that they just finished in Norway took like 15 years or something. The one in, in the UK is plus 10 years. So they've been a lot of challenges getting these things built on time. So that is one of the appeals of, of the SMRS and, and the, the modularity component. And then the other appeal of the SMRS is that they're going to be using more novel fuel techniques. It's not stuff that hasn't been researched before, but they were kind of fuels and coolants that were put on the shelf decades ago when the whole industry as a whole kind of decided, like we're familiar with these boiled water reactors. We're really good at the boiled water reactors and the pressurized water reactors. That's what most of the the submarine fleet is based off of that technology as well. So they were very familiar with it. So they went with that kind of standard design and then that's what got built out. So like 90% of the reactors operating in the world are all based off of just boiling water under a pressurized condition. And then that just creates steam, turns a turbine. But these new reactors, they're getting into using molten salts as their coolants, sodium as their coolants, having like solid like graphite coolants and lead coolants. So they're exploring a lot of that that have different passive features that they like. If the reaction does start overheating, they've got features that will, it will start to reduce the, the how aggressive the reaction is. So it will actually slow itself down if it starts getting hot. So it has like a self regulating mechanism in some of these reactors. So they, so they'll require a lot less safety barriers like they're, they're still going to need to be like like an exclusion zone to varying degrees. But compared to like the, the many acres that the, the large reactors require, these small reactors are only going to need like a very small footprint of, of extra space around them to compensate for, for an accident, because they also have much smaller fuel loads. So they're going to have less of an impact should anything happen with them. But that the whole point of building these things is so that they have passive features so that they can basically be walk away safe. If they lose power, they'll fail into a safe state. If they lose cooling, they'll fail into a safe state. So there's a lot of those cool features that they they want to take advantage of. And then the other aspect of the SMRS that they want to use is because of these different fuel types is they can approach different temperatures. Because if you're only boiling water, your temperature outlet is limited to like boiled water 100°C. If you pressurize that, you can push it up like to almost like 200°C. But these new reactors are hoping that some of them can have outlet temperatures as high as 800°C. So that can allow them to apply to a lot more industries and displace hydrocarbons in a lot of a lot of heat and steam applications for like even just doing oil refining textiles, like you name it, Like there's hundreds of different industries that you could probably think of that can use heat of that temperature. And like there's still a range above there that it's going to be tough for nuclear to approach just yet saying like when we start getting up to 1000°C where it's still going to need things like like coke coal that can really achieve those temperatures or like very, very like high intensity, like induction furnaces is another way to do that. But it's, there's, it just requires a lot of power to get there. And yeah, nuclear powers is, is going to, it's going, going to provide a, a new tool for a lot of these industries that have been pretty much dependent on on hydrocarbons as as their primary fuel source. And then the other thing I was thinking about beyond that is like you start displacing those hydrocarbons. They don't go away. They just start finding higher order uses for them. We start using methane more for for fertilizer. We start using, yeah, we start doing like, what the heck's the word like the cracking process where you can just recombine hydrocarbons and create longer chain hydrocarbons. You can do, we can do all kinds of stuff like that. We just, we, we just primarily use a lot of that for our heat and and electricity right now. So the idea was that would be less cost, they would cost less for those other uses if they're not being used for electricity and heat, whether you've been buying Bitcoin for. Years or just getting started on your journey, our multi institution custody solution is the safest and easiest way to custody your Bitcoin. With On Ramp and our partners at Bitco and Coincover, you can sleep soundly at night knowing that your Bitcoin is safe from exchange failures, the loss of seed phrases and broken hardware devices. On ramps Multi institution Custody solution eliminates any single point of failure, distributes counterparty risk and minimizes required trust all while providing. Greater. Assurances that a client's Bitcoin is secure and auditable on chain. As a client of On Ramp, your assets live in a multi save vault controlled by three distinct entities, none of which have unilateral control. On Ramp provides products and services that honor our clients ownership and control of the underlying asset. To learn more about multi institution custody, check us out at on rampbitcoin.com right right now that. That's. That's all super helpful, helpful context. And and I think it's, you know, at least if I'm on becoming clearer and clearer that people are having more of an open mind to nuclear. And I think it's, you know, it in in large part a result of realizing that energy independence is actually vital going forward, particularly if you think about, you know, the build out of AI compute, you want to be able to service that in a way that is not reliant on on other nations. And so I think people are coming around to the idea that energy independence is going to be extremely important going forward. And, you know, in a parallel sort of narrative, I think people are realizing that Bitcoin is very important to become financially independent from the Fiat system. And what I think less people are tuned to is that there's actually some synergies within both of those sort of parallel narratives that are that are emerging. So I would love to pull on that thread of why, you know, Bitcoin mining is is a really perfect complement to the build out of these nuclear sites. And you know, I think people have heard this concept with with respect to the build out of wind and solar, but I think it's been less talked about in the in the scope of the build out of nuclear. So would love to love for you to drill down into why it's such a a match made in heaven, if you will. Well, I. Like to reference the pioneer species idea for stuff like this, because that's, that's basically like Brandon created a brilliant analogy to to like view this through. Like you start, you want to build power where you know you're going to need power in the future, but you know that you're not going to have sufficient demand for that power now. So Bitcoin miners allow you to plant that seed, build out that energy long before it's going to be needed, act as a placeholder until that market matures and invites more sophisticated energy buyers to come and participate in that market. Like we kind of are already seeing inklings of it with what happened at the the Susquehanna power plant where Terra Wolf is. They built their little 48 MW mining load center and then they started building a giant data centre on the side. And then it got scooped up by AWS just a few weeks ago. And like, that's kind of like, yeah, that wouldn't have been there. That wouldn't have been already under construction had Terra Wolf not already had the foresight to get in there and start doing that. And then we're like starting to see many of the other miners are starting to lean into it. And then there's also like many of the other nuclear reactor operators like Dominion Energy and Constellation, they're starting to have these thoughts too. They're like they, they see these opportunities to bring in these large loads. They can ensure that they're going to get a return on their product regardless of what's happening on the grid. Because like I had kind of mentioned earlier, like when nuclear reactors primarily generate the revenue by selling power onto the grid, most of the time they'll they'll they'll sell it in in like large tranches or but if they're exposed to like the day ahead market, they have to compete with like when like many of these other sources that get the production track credits or just the renewable energy credits that the nuclear isn't as that aren't offered the same to nuclear. Like, like there are definitely some subsidies that come from nuclear, but not the same. Same way of like basically these windmills are paid to operate inefficiently and generate power when nobody needs it and the price is negative. But if they want to collect the, the PTC, they have to be on and pushing power onto the grid, even though the grid doesn't want it at the time. And it creates all these negative feedback dynamics where then your nuclear reactor is exposed to -6 cents a kWh. And they're like, well, we either now have to eat that loss or curtail their load. Or the other option is like a policy decision where it's just like they just get a guaranteed 6 cents a kWh regardless. Essentially that's what we do in Ontario is because often when when we're at full capacity, we're paying the Lake MI and New York to take our our surplus because it is a liability on the grid. If you start generating more than what your grid is capable of handling and it, and it creates these just these situations where the economics are not, it's not natural. The prices that we're seeing are so distorted by money that is not part of this market that it, it creates, it just, it creates so much more challenges for the base load generators to be able to be economic and actually sell their product and be good stewards of, of the grid. And then on the other side, like when we have the peaker plants, because they're only coming on for a short period of time during the year, they have to take advantage of like the worst grid prices of the year. So they're hoping for solar to just drop off so they can turn on for 10 minutes and scoop up like $3000 per MW hour for, for an hour. And then that's, that's their bread and butter. That was that, that, that's, that's, that's their World Series that they show up for just a few hours a year. And then that's how they make all the, but it's, it's such an inefficient way to run a grid, but they need to be available because sometimes if you're heavily reliant on wind and solar, they could just go to zero. And now you, you have to have something available to fill that space. You can't just retire all of your, your spinning reserves and just say like, oh, we can handle it with batteries. Like I'm really not impressed with what they're capable of just yet until there's a major bat breakthrough in energy storage. Like what what is available to the market right now is not capable of doing what is what what they are saying that they want to do with like 20 hours, like 30 hours of a battery backup. Like that's a lot of resources. It's it's going to be very. Challenging, I know. You know, as Bitcoiners we see, you know, the how Bitcoin can and the Bitcoin Bitcoin miners can help facilitate some of these these build outs of nuclear power plants. The curious, because you operate in both both worlds, you know, Bitcoin and the nuclear space, like in nuclear circles, does Bitcoin mining get talked about? Is there excitement there? As you know, they, they absolutely have a vested interest in building up, you know, some of these facilities. Does Bitcoin mining get talked about or do we sort of get lumped in with with AI, you know, as far as a, you know, potential source for for energy? How are we talked about over there? It depends on what they've been exposed to. I, I deal with a lot of people that have seen the Fuds like, but, but you're enabling criminals, but it, it uses, it uses bad energy. And then I look at them and it's like, you're in the nuclear sector, like we, we are the solution to that problem. And it's just all, all the typical FUD that, that we hear about. It is it's hard to, to overcome that anchoring bias. And then on top of that, I'm dealing with engineers. They're very smart people in in their field, but they also went to university and as you are aware, they were taught in economic framework that they were taught is economics. And so they have this complex where you start coming at them with Austrian ideas and it's very off putting for them. And so they there's a bit of a challenge just getting getting this idea fully embraced by the people that need to hear it the most. Like I'm getting some traction at in, in some places where it's not as impactful, but then I'm starting to make some ground in other ways. But I, I also don't want to come off as being like so pushy. Then you come off as the crazy guy. But then, but then things come around later and then it's like, Oh, the crazy guy was on to something. Because like, I, I know how it can get, you get very excited about learning about this technology and you're just like, you can fix this and you can fix this. And it's like, here's this very specific problem that we are working on and that it was identified in a study that we did what it was just like, because we're, we did, they collaborated with the, the Ontario Power Generation and the mining company Morarco to build a hybrid, hybrid energy study. And they have the, they've got a model that they use. They just pump in all, the, all the variables. But the one piece that I, I, I, I noticed that stood out to me was in the scenario where they wanted to deploy just nuclear, it clearly stated we cannot deploy just nuclear because of the high capital expenditures and the risk of leaving power stranded. I saw that. I was like, I have a solution for that. I, I will narrowly focus on just that one problem and offer a solution for just that singular focus. And they are very intent on yeah, there there's a very intent on hydrogen. There's a lot of interest on in batteries. Like, I just saw that my company's building a, a battery farm that we want to absorb from the grid during the the low power times and then distribute it back during the higher priority times. It's like, and I get that and I get the logic to it, but I, I've got a much better solution than trying to to arbitrage like power prices at different times of day. Just you plug in the computer and you turn it into money and then you do whatever you want with it. Yeah, let's. I, I'd be curious like if you could sort of paint a picture for folks and like, you know, Fast forward a decade and you know, we more fully embrace nuclear, we more fully embrace Bitcoin. What could, you know, a hybrid power system on a Bitcoin standard look like? And what would be, you know, the sort of key takeaways in your mind if you're, if you're sort of painting that picture 10 years out, let's say, or I don't even know if that's the right time frame. But into the future, if, if you know, these, these sort of trends and trajectories continue in the way that we think they should just from sort of like a, you know, economic reality perspective, what could that world look like in in 10 or so years? Well, like we're already. Starting to see the puzzle pieces come together like the, the lightning architecture is, is an amazing payments channel and seeing companies like Sonoda starting to pop up that are going to enable consumers to pay their electricity, like literally stream in real time payments and settle that in real time. And then a friend of mine is working on a project that's kind of the opposite of Sonoda. So if you're familiar with the programs where they have where they'll offer you like a rebate, but then they'll take control of your smart thermostat for the period of time when the grid's stressed. His idea is more along the lines of creating like, a bounty out of it and having a lightning channel open between the utility and the consumer. And instead of just having unilateral control over their thermostat, they have to push a transaction like a lightning transaction, kind of like, if you're familiar with lane bits and how that, like, Ben Arc uses that to, like, turn on lights and gumball machines and electrocute Peter McCormick on stage. Yeah. But yeah, OV had this idea just like, well, if you can turn things on, you can also turn things off. So he was like, well, if the utility were to pay consumers a bounty when they want them to curtail their energy consumption, that can almost create like a gamified structure where where it creates a unique incentive for people to participate in these programs instead of just like opting in. And then your thermostat just turns down on the hottest day of the year. And you're like, OK, that's fine for one day and then two days and then three days. And then you start getting very irritable when you can't turn your thermostat before like 70 lower than 75. And yeah, people will not be impressed if when that starts becoming involuntary. So he, he has an interesting idea of how to, to tie that together. And then you start thinking about how like the lightning architecture it, it's, it's not a perfect map, but it does, it does have similarities to how the electrical grid is managed because it's just just your, your generators, your substations, your consumers, there's just, there's nodes and channels. You got outbound nodes and inbound nodes. Similar idea except you have to the the flow is constant as opposed to just having liquidity that can just be moved as needed. But I wouldn't put it past me if as these generators start becoming Bitcoin miners themselves, then they'll start having Bitcoin mining on their balance sheet. They're going to have to start thinking about things like, well, could they provide lightning liquidity and work with like lightning service providers like voltage to, to actually have have these channels and actually put it to work for themselves. And then we've all, we're already seeing different ways like like sailors got his treasury strategy. It wouldn't be unfeasible if some of these companies start adopting similar ideas to to keep just Bitcoin in their treasury. And like, even if they just want to just flip it for whatever currency they want as they're generating it like that's going to give them, they just, they can just turn that into money right away. And then we are starting to see other products like the Luxor's hash price futures. So that's going to be an interesting one to overlay. So then they can just, they can, they can just be like, OK, well, for, for two years, we're just going to sell our whatever, like 1X hash for whatever. And just, and then they have that confidence that they're going to have their locked in prices. So that's going to be a lot more a lot more effective for utilities that are typically very risk averse when if for them to engage in Bitcoin. So if they can, if they can stabilize the revenue with something like like a forwards product, then that's going to give them a lot more confidence. And then you start seeing how all this fits together and like we could have like utilities in a micro grid essentially having like a fetiment with all of their customers. And then you can have these channels that have like the, the consumer pays through like Sonoda's software back end. And then ways that yeah, they then they can receive money if they opt into curtailment programs. And then they can, they can also have like if, if surplus revenue is being generated in these micro grids, they having a, a mint with all of their like local ratepayers, they can actually like send out like bonuses and very easily and quickly in, in that regard. And then it's all pretty much just going to get cycled into just building more infrastructure and just improving the systems and making them more robust and adding more equipment to them. And then like as the Bitcoin miners, they plant the seeds. And then you see more you, you now have the option as higher order energy consumers come into those markets now that they're more amenable to those larger consumers because the Bitcoin miners go in where, where you need someone a little bit more robust and tolerant of, of tough conditions. So they'll set the stage so that the consumers that require a lot more like redundancies into a nicer, cleaner operations to to be in these markets. So they'll start bringing them in. And then you have the option that you can then add more power or you can take away Bitcoin mining or you can add or you can do like a combination of the both. It's just it's going to start giving them so much more optionality in how they engage with the financial markets. Like was Bob Burnett was saying something like he expects like these Bitcoin miners and power companies and financial institutions to essentially kind of like all merge into singular entities. And based on the tools that we're seeing maturing and becoming available, it's really not out of the realm of possibility that that these these like power generating utilities will become like core. Components of the new financial rails on Bitcoin. So they're going to need to start having relationships with these financial institutions that are they're a little bit more familiar with with that type of work because there's going to be a lot of crossover in the in the coming years as these two start maturing into each other. Because I think we're only just getting started now that we're starting to see like the miners that the ASICS that are being built are being custom built to the needs and wants of the actual like people in the industry doing this. Instead of just having a six that are just zero and one on and off. Now we've got like power throttling from anywhere from zero to one and then over clocking if you've got them an immersion. So you can really push the limits on what like how fine of control we can, we can play these curtailment games like that's like, if you can wield megawatts within seconds, like that gets down to like frequency management and like, so that provides a lot of value to the grid beyond just being a like a, a consistent consumer of power. And it's going to give them a lot more, a lot more certainty, a lot more stability, just a lot more confidence when we're trying to build out these projects. And it's just, yeah. And then yeah, more, more projects, more orders. And then we just keep that feedback loop going and just, and then everybody, everybody's going to benefit in the long run if we can amplify these technologies. Yeah, that's it's fascinating stuff. And, and to me, it's, it's just becoming clearer and clearer the more I've learned about it. And, and speaking with you, it's like, you know, building out nuclear capacity is vital, I think to, you know, our sort of energy independence going forward as a, as a country. And I think, you know, we mentioned this a couple times, but like I, you know, I've heard quotes over the past few weeks of like, you know, the basically the energy capacity required for us to, you know, remain competitive on the AI side of things, you know, relative to the trials of the world, Like we are going to need to build out immensely more capacity than we have in the US today. And so, you know, if you believe that to be true, then like we have to lean into nuclear more than we already are. And as we've mentioned, like, you know, Bitcoin mining is a great way to do that in the most efficient way possible. And so, yeah, to me, it's it, it's all lining up. And I think you know it, it will take. Yeah, the biggest, I guess question mark is, is the political will to get it there and for those regulatory hurdles to be softened at least to the point where people can start putting meaningful capital behind the build out of these things. Is, is that, am I correct in that line of thinking? Like, is it, is it the political will that's like the biggest impediment at this point in time? Oh, political will. Is definitely on our side now, like Canada, both conservatives and liberals are pro nuclear. It seems like in the US, like if you got Senator Granholm coming out, very, very pro nuclear. And like I listened to that recent podcast that Trump did with the all in guys and he sounded very positive on nuclear. He was just like, we just got to figure out a better way to get these things financed, guys, let's go. And, and like a lot of that is there, there is the, the bureaucratic momentum that needs to kind of be refined so that that is a challenge. Like it just gets built up over the decades. And, and it's specifically designed for a, a unique type of reactor that doesn't align well with this whole new fleet that we're trying to bring into the world. So that's got it going to need some significant updates. And that's where I think some of these newcomers to getting into nuclear power are going to have an advantage because they're not going to be bogged down by decades of bureaucracy that's just been piled on top of itself. And it's and becomes more like of a kind of a suck for for the money that comes into the industry. It all gets sucked into the licensing and the regulatory and it becomes very challenging to actually do engineering and build these things because there's just so much like extra cost burdens on them. Yeah. What was I going with that? I think you know we're. Cognitive time and we're, we're over an hour here and want to be want to be respectful of your time, Ryan, But you know, any other sort of just further thoughts on on cause for me, this has been fascinating in the sense that, you know, I think the, the sort of nuclear side of things is its own rabbit hole that I've begun, just begun to go down. And once you start to realize that there are some similarities to the to the Bitcoin rabbit hole and that those holes actually potentially converge at a certain point and there's a lot of interesting synergies there, it becomes, you know, that much more fascinating. So, you know, any, any sort of final thoughts or final words on how people can learn more about this, where they can follow you? Any of that would be helpful. Well, the the world nuclear. Association has a really, really good library of information for anybody that wants to dig in on learning about nuclear power. There's also the NEASMR dashboard that was put out a few months ago. It's it covers the technological readiness, readiness on 6 different categories for 42 SMRS that are currently vying for to get into the market. And so there, that's, that's an interesting one that it, it explains a lot about the SMRS before getting into what the what, what is available on the market. And then just another, another one. While I do still have you guys here, because I've been looking at these ideas like, because I, I think about, I see the Bitcoin, I see the nuclear physics and there's a few interesting similarities just with the principles of like radiation and, and and nuclear physics. And like Bitcoin because like we're all familiar with the, the issuance formula and having cycle like that is exactly comes out of, of like radionuclides is they decay. The way that we measure how they decay over time is through their half life. So how, how long does it take for half of that material to decay and become a new element? So it, it is interesting just kind of seeing that like, because Satoshi seemed to be such a polymath in many different things. Like it would not surprise me if if he was familiar with nuclear physics and he was like, well, that seems like a pretty reasonable rate to, to model this, this issuance off. And then the other cool thing that I was even digging deeper into is when these atoms decay, there's a degree of like it's completely random. So no singular event affects the other, another atom from decaying. And I got to thinking how that is kind of similar for how the Bitcoin miners are searching for a nonce. And just like every single hash is independent from every other single hash, but it's all completely random. But you can infer a pattern from it if you like kind of pull yourself back and observe it over time. So it's it's very interesting to see those those relations that that Bitcoin has to like the natural principles of of nuclear radiation and the how radionuclides work if I found that one kind of interesting. So I've been looking for an opportunity to share it somewhere and just no, it's fascinating. Like, yeah. And like I know like the. Bitcoin the. Bitcoiners definitely like to see where where our technology starts to cross over with with other technologies and see where these possible like like where where the hell did this guy think of all of these commonly like and the other like the crazy one. I was just thinking about this the other day, like the the 20, the 2016 for the difficulty adjustment. And we all know that's 61O2 in reverse. Like that was such like what came first because that actually at 10 minutes a block that works out to be perfectly 14 days. So was it intentional or was it just a complete coincidence? Because it's it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. Bitcoin touches everything. And, you know, I think the, the themes and concept we've we've discussed today really give me give me hope and optimism for an abundant future and, and ideally one that's on a Bitcoin standard. So really want to want to thank you Ryan, for for coming on the pod and, and sharing your insight on on these, these very interesting topics. Mitch, do you have anything else? No, I just appreciate the time. It's it's. I agree. It's fascinating watching Bitcoin sort of submerse itself into every say, every industry and this power and particularly the build outs of you know, and the progress that we can make and in the nuclear space, you know, I I learned a lot over here to to seeing how how both those two worlds can can help each other. It's inevitable. I'm. Just trying to help it along any way I can because I don't know. I see, I saw something that I think can help, but it's just educating everyone else is is the challenge that I now find myself in which no, and that's that's the key. It's it's people like you. Who have, you know, are sitting in the you know, the the other industry, whatever it may be that see the light, see the vision of Bitcoin and and start making those connections. So we need more people like you. Ryan, where where can people follow you on Twitter? Yeah, just nuclear bitcoiner on Twitter I. Have Noster as well. I should probably use it more often. But yeah, it's been a weird experience. Like I went from guy just sitting in a lab and now I'm talking on podcast and just reach out cold calling to just random people that I think would like this idea. Like it all started with Foss of all people. Like he was the first one that I poked with this idea. And he's like, that's a great idea. Here's another guy that's working on it. You guys should talk to each other. And then we submitted it to a contest and then we won. And now I'm the nuclear bitcoiner talking about this stuff with everybody. Like the first big podcast I got invited on was McCormick invited me. He flew me all the way to to Bedford, for God's sakes. I'm just like, there's much better people. But I was very honored to have have been invited. Oh, Speaking of McCormick. Yeah. Because I know we we have time like him taking over Bedford right now. I don't know if you've been watching this story with him fighting with mayor and slowly taking over the city. Yeah, I think one day he's going to need a good solid power source to keep that football empire he's going to be sustaining over there one day. So, so 100% wouldn't, wouldn't put it past them to get some nuclear power in Bedford once he's once we got Mayor Pete in in the seat. Yep. No, I, I see the vision. I see the vision. Well, thank you. Thank you again, Ryan, This is this has been awesome. And yes, yeah, thanks everyone for for tuning into this episode of Final Settlement and we'll see you guys in a couple weeks later. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this week. 'S episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that On Ramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. 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