Oil & Gas Veteran: Why Energy and Bitcoin Must Go Higher

Let's be clear, Bitcoin is an international asset. We are spending like drunken sailors. Bitcoin is the only economic entity where the supply is unaffected by the demand. If you want to preserve your wealth, you have to convert that currency into an asset that's scarce, desirable, portable, durable, and maintainable. All right, had a great conversation this week with Matthew Montgomery of Maidlow. Matthew's the founder and managing director. He brings 20 plus years of oil and gas experience and his fund strategy focuses on the mineral royalty space. Now listeners of the show may be more familiar with Bitcoin than they are the mineral and royalty space. And don't worry, we covered both. We discussed how Matthew is pioneering Bitcoin as part of his fund investment strategy and why both energy prices and Bitcoin will go much higher. Excited for this and for Matthew and the Maple team because I ultimately think that Bitcoin will get in the hands of many investors through investment strategies like this. And so excited for you to check out this episode, get perspectives that maybe are different from you. I think you'll learn from it as I did as well. So enjoy this one. And thanks for tuning in to Scarce Assets. Welcome back to Scarce Assets. Matthew Montgomery, it's great to have you on the show today. You're the founder and managing director of Maevlo, and you are an oil and gas investment professional. And you're bridging the gap in a new investment strategy, oil and gas energy sector with Bitcoin. We're going to get more into that on the second-half of the show. Really excited for this one. I think I'm going to learn a lot as well as the audience to hear. So Matthew, thanks for joining us. How's it going? Yeah, No, thanks for thanks for having me, Jackson. It's it's a privilege to come on your show. I appreciate your willingness to to let me come on and and unpack what we're doing here at Mayvlo. Give us a sense of your background. If you don't mind oil and gas energy, how did you get interested? Just set the stage so we get a better sense of who you are. Yeah, so I, I'm, I'm a land man by trade. I, my background really my degrees in finance and I was really focused on real estate development when I got out of school. And, and there's a lot of serendipity, you'll hear me say that often in this, in this conversation. But through that kind of serendipity window, the, the shale revolution here in the United States, specifically the Barnett Shale, I finished school in, in, in, at UTA in Arlington. And that was really kind of the first shale play that took off in O3O4. And so it was, it was a great time to get in the business. I didn't, you know, had no background in, in geology or, or engineering or any of the technical sciences that you would normally think of in the oil and gas phase. But yeah, so started there in, in the Barnett Shell. That led to some opportunities. My wife and I moved to Louisiana where I was head of a brokerage business there. And we and we bought leases in in outside of Shreveport, LA, Northwest Louisiana, parts of East Texas and really help bring to fruition the Haynesville Shale, which was a another shale shale field development that took place. And then that ultimately led me to a headhunter found me and and I took a job here in Denver where we still are at. We moved our family here and, and got to work in house drilling, drilling wells and chasing deals. It was a it was a private equity sponsored portfolio company. So it was really cool to see how the private equity world, at least in the oil and gas base thinks and, and underwrites deals and, and bills portfolio companies and, and the big dollars that that they bring from Wall Street and the even as far up as the pension funds and some of those really, really big check sizes. It was interesting to see how that all kind of came to call them together, took those those sheets out of the playbook and formulated Maevlo Company and was crazy enough and had a wife that was patient enough for me to go out on my own. Did that in 2018 and and yeah, the rest is history. We've been kind of just going forward and just one, one step in front of the in front of the next. So Matthew, appreciate the intro. I think need to take one step back real quick because we need to define, define some things before we keep moving forward. So you mentioned graduating from UT in 2003, 2004 area and seeing the opportunity you mentioned the the Barnett Shale in particular. Can you just kind of define these these terms that are obvious to you but may maybe not obvious to the audience who doesn't have a background? In oil and gas get excited that that someone would want to have a conversation with little Mayflow. So I apologize yeah. And if I got if I if I go too fast, then absolutely slow me down. So the Barnett Shell. Well, I graduated from UTA in Arlington. I was not in Austin. That's a big that would be a big. I got to disclaim that because it'd be a huge argument in my house. We're full Red Raiders at our house. So if I if I my kids see this or in laws that what have you. So I need to disclaim that first. But yeah, my background was in finance. I was very, very fortunate to interview and land my first job with a man named Larry Dale out of Dallas. He's a a a long time oil man drilled wells. I was an independent. I really kind of had aspirations or itch, I think maybe to to pursue law school. I, you know, taking the exam and had my application is all ready to go to law school. And he gave me an opportunity. He put me in his hip pocket and he said, look, I'll, if you'll just come and help me through this process, I'll teach you everything I know. And what a, what a gift and what a gift. I was in my early 20s, got to sit on really big board meetings and see capital raises, see how joint operating agreements come together. And you know, you know what you know and you know what you don't know kind of at that time and really could really even today. But it afforded me an opportunity to get in and I'd had no idea what and how big the Shell revolution would take off. Shale is a is a, is a very, it's I could go on and on. But the shale revolution really caught on when we mixed horizontal drilling and slick water fracking together to where we could drill into what is the source rock of many conventional oil and gas basins. And so when we think about conventional oil and gas basins, think about think about a sand formation. Or maybe you've been to the beach and you can walk out. As you walk out into the ocean, you hit multiple sandbars. OK. And if I take Jackson, if I take a bucket of sand and, and, and fill it up and then pour water on the top of it and for at the shore, you can see that water permeates through that sand. That's a very conventional and I'm painting with a very broad brush here, but that's a conventional structure. And that's typically where you would see industry drill vertical wells and then they would land those wells into sand formations. And then in in, in those sand formations, geologically you would have oil and and natural gas hydrocarbon that would leak up and permeate into those into those sand bars. And so you take a just a vertical well, almost just like a, a straw, it would tap into that sandbar and you would extract that hydrocarbon out. Beginning in like really kind of 2099, 2002, 1001, the industry as a whole was trying to figure out how to drill into the, into the source rock from really where the, where the hydrocarbon is formulated, where it compresses, where it's that there's enough heat and organic content for it to make oil and natural gas. And that's in the shale from with the shale is it's extremely dense. So take that same analogy where we're sitting on the, we're at the shoreline and we have this bucket. One bucket is full of sand. Now if I take the same bucket and I put frankly a bowling ball or like granite, and then we pour that same water on top, it's just going to fall off to the sides. That that's a very loose comparison of shale, which is unconventional, and sand, which is conventional in the, in the geologic world that we live in. What industry figured out is if we can shatter that bowling ball. Or maybe like the better example is if a rock flies off and hits your windshield, it begins that spider web of a fractured network that creates a path for the hydrocarbon to permeate through and ultimately get into the wellbore. And so it was this this serendipitous time where technology was such that we could drill down into the horizon and drill horizontally into that shell formation. It's extremely dense. It's not doing anything. And and then industry came behind and learned if we frack that shale and bust up that rock, then you have a you're into the source rock. This all really transpired and really took off in O3O4 in the Barnett Shale. Guy named George Mitchell was a huge pioneer behind this process and this thesis. And so the industry jumped on board very quickly. And so here I am this guy that that studied finance right, needs a job and was fortunate enough to connect with an oil man that was pursuing this Barnett Shale. And at the time you had Denton County, which is north North Central Texas. And then you had a Johnson County and in between it was Tarrant County, which is where downtown Fort Worth is at, if you're familiar with the area. And what we learned about the shale geology is it's very quiet, meaning it's not, you're not wildcatting, you're not drilling a well and then scoot over a mile and you drill a dry hole. That's not shale at all. Shale is a very quiet formation. And so you, it covers extreme distances as we think about it in the oil and gas world. And So what, what Larry was playing is, hey, there's productive wells to the north up in Denton and there's productive wells down South by Johnson County. The Shell is going to be in between. And so we began leasing up mineral rights and a lease agreement is just where we approach the mineral owner and say, Hey, we want to drill and extract this hydrocarbon that's underneath your property. But in order to do so, we need a contract. We need to come together and understand the rules of engagement, right? Like what, what we're going to pay for, what we're going to pay you, what, what we're going to do, what we're not going to do. That's all parts of the oil and gas lease. And so that, that led me into this like career as a land man in, in O3O4 and, and looking back, I had no idea. I just didn't, you know, I didn't know that there's, there's, and neither did any of the industry realize that what we started in the Barnett would morph into the Eagle fur that's in South Texas. Then the Fayetteville Shale, it's in Arkansas, the Haynesville, I mean, the list goes on and on, right? I mean, you have the Marcellus Shale, the Utica Shale, it's parts of of Northeast where you're at. And then in the Dakotas, you have the Bakken Shell, a very oily formation. There's Shell formation in Oklahoma, Colorado. And then ultimately the prize pig that everyone loves to talk about is the Permian Basin where you have the Permian in the Delaware. And so all these shell it just, and we'll talk more about it, how the Shell revolution took our country from from a net importer to a net exporter. And you hear that, but it's, it's, and sometimes you see early on kind of OO7O8910, there'd be an occasional article in the Wall Street Journal where you hear about it. But to really appreciate and see it first hand was, wasn't a part of my career that, that was just exceptional. And, and well, it still is today, right? But it's it's been a fun ride. Yeah. Thanks for walking us through that. So if I got the name correctly, is it Larry Davis? Larry Dale. Dale. Larry Dale OK, So you got teamed up with Larry Dale in the early 2000s and technology allowed for the shale revolution in the early stages. It almost sounds a lot like Bitcoin, which we'll get into later in the conversation where you mentioned early days in shale. People didn't fully appreciate or realize to what extent this technology would allow for, you know, more energy, more production and what that would mean for our economy, for the economy's globally. And I almost think of Bitcoin just in the sense of, you know, we celebrated the the white paper day. Us Bitcoin nerds celebrated the white paper day on the 31st of October, just a few days ago. And at that time there wasn't really a clear, there still isn't necessarily a clear path forward of what Bitcoin would become right. And so it's really interesting to hear of what those early days were, where it was serendipity. You're looking for an opportunity. Larry Dale had the opportunity and it just so happened right place at the right time. And you had the, you know, the professional chops, the the wits to really lean in there and make a career, which is really fascinating because I would love to better understand because this is my background necessarily I I'm learning in real time with the audience. So I would love to ask you just in terms of we touch a little bit how you got interested at that time in those early days. And you can also tie it into today as well. When you were speaking with the boardrooms and the investors. Tell us a little bit about the investment thesis. What would get people excited about participating with you guys? Yeah, No, it's a great question. It's I come back to kind of like, you know what, you know, you know what you don't know. And, and so this, this chapter of, of my career at the time, I, I didn't know very much, you know, little, little to nothing. But what was very apparent and, and a common denominator was when Larry would get well results, yeah. Or when we would have communications with investors and partners in the venture that we were on. Those partners were also very seasoned oil and gas guys that they had seen a lot. They've been through booms, Old Town booms and bust, you know, the 70's, the 80s, even the, the low parts of of the late 1990s. And what I began to pick up was these guys are talking about production rates. They're talking about well results that they've never seen in 203040 years of their oil and gas career. And so I was very keen to to pick that up and go, I don't really understand the, the size and scope of what we're building and what's under the literally under the ground here. But I could recognize that guys that have been in the business for a long, you know, multi decades, couldn't they, they, I mean, like they couldn't get enough, right? So our meetings and our capital raises were extremely fast-paced, which is, you know, there, there's a lot of parallel there to the, to the Bitcoin environment. It's such it's you feel like you kind of just get your head around the idea and then something changes or a new product comes out or there's a new, a new, a nuance that you didn't understand before. So that part of this whole experience for me has been very parallel to the earliest days of the Shell revolution. And we think about as you, as you ask, like, what are those conversations like? And what are the IT was there weren't very many. In fact, I can't even really think of one of our earliest partners that were not in the oil and gas bases. A lot of oil and gas veterans that did the the Shell revolution, starting with the Barnett was really kind of the twilight of their career. It's something they've been waiting on for goodness, twenty, 30-40 years. And so that that part of it was very exciting. The conversations were were very dynamic and it was, it was so much about speed, how fast we build our position, how fast could we get our well results in it. The kind of natural evolution and the shell revolution was really kind of, in my opinion, there'll probably be some in my space that disagree with this, but kind of the first 3 innings, I think I would call it was really the, the heyday of the land man and the business development person. It was all about how much land you could get and, and put on your balance sheet from perspective to operate on, right, That, that inning 4 through 6 was really the heyday of the operational efficiencies. And so the engineer really got their day in the in the sun, right. How efficient are they literally down to measurable distance of by the foot and great, you know, sand gradients and water flows and down hole pressures. It's still very much an important part of, of what's going on just as much as land. But that was really the engineer's heyday. And now I think that I believe that we're starting to see that transition in the industry, in the only gas industry. And, and, and not to say that inning 9 is just going to be like this total turn off the lights, but, and that's really going to be more focused on the finance guys, the CF OS, the big more capital discipline is such a huge part in our industry. Now you're seeing more and more of the C-Suite in operating companies that are LED or soon to be led by financiers. And, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I just think it's an evolution of, of where it's at and where it's going. But it, it'll be an interesting, an interesting time. Their their day in the sun is certainly starting to begin. Here's what keeps bitcoiners awake. You're still securing millions of dollars the same way you secured thousands that hardware wallet in your drawer. Your family's entire future depends on you not losing it for getting the PIN or something happening to you on ramps. Multi institution custody removes that burden. Three independent institutions hold your keys. No single point of failure. No seed phrases to protect, no explaining complex recovery processes to your spouse. And now we're offering flat tier pricing. One predictable monthly fee starting at $250 whether Bitcoin is at 100K or 500K plus with on ramp buyer raise, you get the same institutional security with tax advantage growth. This is how smart investors protect generational wealth without the weight on their shoulders. There's strength in many. Learn more at on rampbitcoin.com. It's fascinating. You know, I'm really not trying to force the parallels here, but I can't help my, my Bitcoin brain just being in at 24/7. There is so many parallels of what you just described in terms of those early days of the shield revolution. Initially you mentioned it was like a fast-paced opportunity. It was a, a land grab game. How much land could you acquire? And then it evolved to how could you efficiently operate? And then you mentioned now it's more so how can you do things in a savvy way as relates to financing or other, you know, maybe interesting structures. On the investment side, and a lot of that does sound like Bitcoin where it's just the early days were accumulation and now I think we're more at the clearly with strategy and other Bitcoin treasury companies, you're seeing a lot of this approach of leveraging capital markets, equity debt markets to try to acquire more Bitcoin. Now we're still in the very early stages of that as it relates to Bitcoin. So it's still remains to be seen how that'll play out exactly. But fascinating parallel there and want to get your thoughts on just tying it together now with you. Give us a background on how you got into this, where the opportunity was. You mentioned how exciting it was as well for some of the people who are at the twilight of their careers. I almost think of the folks who've been in precious metals for so long, they finally embraced Bitcoin because they've been fighting the good fight. And I've seen all the problems with the the fiscal and monetary plumbing of the United States at the twilight of maybe 30 or 40 years being in the precious metal space now seeing a solution in Bitcoin as well. And so if you can kind of bridge the gap to where you are today with Mavlo in the sense of speaking with investors, what are those conversations like? And I need to ask as well, could you explain maybe before what the conversations with investors are and what are the merits of getting involved with a strategy like yours Next Bitcoin, we'll get to the Bitcoin part. Could you explain the mineral royalty space and where you focus today? No, it's great. So, yeah, I just kind of went through this whole scenario of the Shell revolution, the Shell revolution and, and it's really, I spent the 1st 20 years of my career in that space working for brokerages, land service companies, operating companies, drilling wells. And in a large part of that with the Shell revolution, it's been fantastic for our country as a whole. OK. But with it really came the the demise that might be a little strong, but the demise of the oil and gas independent. You know, when you think about the 60's, the 70's, the 80s, there's lots of independent independents for everywhere. I would call, I'd call you Jackson and say, hey Jackson, I'm coming to see you get 3 or 4 of your best buddies. Let's go play golf. I've got this geology prospect and we want to go drill 5 wells, OK. And I'm going to operate it. I've got the geology put together, the lands put together. I'm raising some capital and we're going to drill all 5 wells. The whole joint venture might be half $1,000,000, right, $100,000 wells in in clear. That's not lost on me. That's, that's still a lot of money for a lot of folks, but that was really kind of how the, the space worked up until the Shell revolution because of the technology, because of the depth of the, of the shale basins. These are not 100,000 dollar, $200,000 drilling complete wells. These are 1012 more often $15 million apiece. So every hole that is being poked in the ground, you're looking at 10 to $15 million of, of drilling capital that's needed. And so as you can imagine, that compressed the, the independent space drastically. And so where I'm headed with this is that in, in my opinion, because it takes such an enormous amount of capital, when you put a hundred, a hundred wells together in one year, you need to have 100. I mean, obviously 100, you know, a significant amount of money to go and execute the strategy. That wasn't me. I didn't have that kind of stroke. And so myself, many others in the space looked at it as we wanted. I wanted to remain in the energy space. I love the oil and gas business. I didn't have hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to go build my own oil company. And so I began buying the minerals and the royalties beneath the surface of where these oil companies would drill sometimes already had drilled and we'd buy fractional interest in those wells. And then we'd be positioned so that when they came back to drill that second, third, fourth well, we would see upside from that. And so it allowed me to quasi be an independent be in the space. And and then you can flex that you can be you can be in the mineral space with half 1,000,000 bucks. And there's publicly traded mineral and royalty vehicles that, that trade on the Stock Exchange today and are multi billion dollar enterprises. So the sandbox is still exceptionally large from the opportunity to Tam, right? It's all opportunity that's still out there, but it allowed this this kind of entrepreneurial independent space. And so that's a big part of how I ended up in the royalty space. Royalties are let's define that just real quick, right? Royalties are a, a function, they're a classification of real property. When you Jackson and you go buy your, your, your house, you're going to own a bundle of sticks attributed to that, to that deed that's deeded into you. It has surface rights. You have executive rights that you you control what can be done to the property. You can grant an easement, right? And one of those bundles or excuse me, one of those sticks in the bundle is the mineral rights. And So what people don't realize in in this country is you could live in the Northeast where you're at. You could inherit the mineral rights to a piece of property in Oklahoma and have a cousin that lives in Seattle that also has a fractional interest to those minerals in Oklahoma. And so it's a very transferable real property component there. And So what we in our vehicles, we solicit, negotiate and purchase from willing sellers their mineral interest to productive horizons that we believe either already have production or we'll have future production on them. So we're not in the drilling world, we don't operate wells, we don't frack wells. We're just taking a real property asset and using the experience that we've had for the last 20 years, knowing these basins and opportunistically pursue the minerals that are that are in play and and that's what we do for our investors I'm sure. Ryan, can I ask you another part of your question there though off my list? I did, but I that was a good stopping point because it makes a lot of sense in terms of you mentioned initially wanted to stay in the space, didn't have the capital to acquire, found an opportunity with mineral rights. They're transferable, less capital intensive, give you ownership and income stream. And so could you walk us through high level, just what that looks like in terms of a discussion between your team at Mave Low and a seller of mineral rights? What's motivating them potentially? I'm sure there's many reasons, but what are some of the common motivators for selling? And could you walk us through on your side and the strategy, what are you looking for in terms of acquisition? Yep, I get this question a lot. Like why, if if the minerals are there and maybe someone inherited them, why would they ever sell? And there's this little game called life that we're all playing, right. More often than not, we'll talk to heirs of usually second or third generation where it might have been a farmer that owned 800 acres in South Texas and he farmed that land. And then as as he has passed down, it's not owned by one single individual. It's not owned by the, the minerals are not owned by the surface and the heirs that are, you know, there's, there might be 15 to 20 heirs. Well, you know, if you owned 800 acres of minerals, that's pretty, pretty valuable, right? That's, that's a strong position to be in. But as it comes down now you're talking to, you know, 120th interest in 800 acres and they've never been to the property. They live in Florida. They don't, you know, they don't have any, any ambition to be a farmer in South Texas. And maybe it has a little bit of income stream off of it. Maybe there's 5 or 6 wells, maybe there's 10 wells across it. And they've been drilled over the course of of say the last five, 6-7 years. So they're, they're receiving revenue stream already. And they, and they have this life event right there, their kids going to college or they, they have a death in the family or they want to consolidate it. So there's, there's opportunity, there's liquidity there and say, hey, look, I have this income stream. I'm never going to go back out and be a farmer. Could I sell half of my 120th interest? Yeah, sure. We'll, we'll make that trade. We'll underwrite that deal. Often times that turns in six months later, they call us back and say, hey, like I'm ready to sell the the remaining half of what I sold you previously. That's a lot of the types of conversations that we have and it ranges. Sometimes we talk to like we've got a deal right now we're working on in West TX that was a carve out from an estate. It's always easier to split cash that it is to split real property, right? If you inherited several $1,000,000 of raw land, it's like, well, great that that's, that's amazing. That feels great, but it's always easier for you to split the cash than it would be that, that, that land. And so that's where we can step in and provide some liquidity to that, to that environment. That's really kind of the, the one O 1 of what we look for and what we're, you know, we, we, we view it as we're providing a service. I mean, these folks don't have liquidity otherwise. And we give, I think minerals are, are one of the greatest option value propositions that exist. And you're when you're in the oil and gas mineral business, you can develop your, you can drill that next well. If you own the minerals, you can lease them to an operating company to drill that well for you. You can bequeath those in your estate. You can hand them down. You can. And look, the one decision is you can do nothing. That's also a variable in the equation. It has there's extreme optionality in the mineral space and we just, we were one of those rungs in the will and and have been and will continue to be. Yeah, fascinating. Appreciate the context there. I actually worked in the agricultural space prior to on ramp and we don't need to get into the details, but a lot of times I wasn't on the deal side, I was on the sales side of the business. So working with investors who were allocating capital to agriculture and specifically US farmland for a number of reasons, you know, income inflation protection, capital appreciation, etcetera. But a lot of the deal sourcing was similar where it was multi generational land, it was inherited by the grand, you know, the grandchildren or great grandchildren, there's a lot of them. It's illiquid. They don't visit the property, they don't want to deal with tenants. And a lot of them, you know, just want the cash, right. So it's similar to a dynamic that you just described there and I guess probably fairly fairly common across kind of the real asset landscape. Now, one of the focal points of the conversation is obviously some of the things we'll get to in terms of how Bitcoin fits into the investment strategy, which I think is fascinating and an area that you're really pioneering. But I think in order to get there, we need to address a couple of things first. And so first and foremost, on the investor side. So when you're working with investors and they're coming to you or you're pitching them on the merits of a strategy like yours at Mavenlo, I'm curious what the motivations are typically for investing. Is it income generation? Is it inflation protection? Is it a mix of both? Is it another thing I'm not thinking of, diversification? What are the common themes you see there? And then I have a second part of the question, but let's let's start there. Yeah. So theme wise, I, I think that it's, it's, it's best culminated from our LP's on on income stream and diversification in each of our we're in the, we're in the midst of of closing our 4th fund. The first three funds that we've raised and deployed, we've we've doubled our LP count, we've doubled our capital that we've brought in. And the, the common denominator there is looking for an income stream. I have a lot of guys that are that are real estate developers or, and, or I have a lot of LP's that are business owner operators and they have a real estate portfolio and they go, hey, look like I love the passive income stream here, but I'm not real keen on getting another roof. I got a, you know, leaky roof tenant, leaky toilet, like all those kind of things. I just want to see the income stream. And so that's, that's kind of the first layer of how it begins. Then they then they recognize that the diversification that's associated with it. We're we're unlevered and as well as unhedged. And so we ride the ups and we ride the downs on the commodity structure, good and bad. And so that can bode for colorful conversations on both, both ends. Trust me. But the themes from our LP's have, have predominantly been, hey, I've got this wedge of capital I want to be in in an alternative space. My, my thesis here is the LP is I want to see income generation, I want to see diversification. And I've always heard, now I get this often and I've always heard that oil and gas is a great inflation, inflation hatch, which it is. And, and we can, we can unpack that as much as you'd like, but it's that those are the really the starting conversations that we typically have with all of our LP's for reasons that they want to get into the energy space. Here's the conversation no one wants to have. If something happened to you tomorrow, could your family access your Bitcoin? Really think about it. The C phrase hidden in your house, the hardware wallet and the safe. That complex multi 6 setup. You understand it, but does your spouse do your children? Billions and Bitcoin are already lost forever because people did not plan for this moment. On ramps Inheritance solution is built into our multi institution custody from day 1/3 institutions. Clear beneficiary designation and professional succession planning. No technical knowledge required from your heirs. And with our new flat tier pricing starting at $250 monthly, your family won't face surprise custody costs just because Bitcoin appreciated the same predictable fee whether Bitcoin hits 200K or 2 million. Don't leave your family's future to chance. There's strength in many. Visit on rampbitcoin.com/inheritance. That is on rampbitcoin.com/inheritance. It makes sense, Yeah. Why don't we unpack that quickly on the inflation hedge side? Because I imagine those things that you mentioned make a lot of sense. People are looking for other sources of income. What I saw in a previous life was especially in the zero interest rate days. I mean, we're, we're well above that right now. But historically speaking, rates are still fairly low. But you know, people are starved for yield. And I, I bet you saw that as well, right? Where cap rates were so low, you know, fixed income instruments, U.S. government was paying close to 0, you know, one percent, 2%. And so I could imagine that there was a lot of appetite from investors seeking first and foremost income generation. But the interesting, well, there's multiple interesting angles, but one of the interesting angles as well is that this income generation seems to be tied to what is tied to the prices of energy. So naturally it is an inflation hedge as well, which you can't say the same with fixed income securities as an example. So, yeah, what what makes oil and gas a great inflation hedge? Yeah. How do you think about that? Yeah, it's on the inflation hedge side. It's it's, I think the, the I'm paying with a broad brush here a bit Jax, but it's, it's largely in, we want to get out of cash and get into an asset. And you know, I might have an LP that's got relative exposure to real estate, maybe a little bit of gold and has a bit of land. And so they look at those items and go, hey, like the only one that really kind of does anything for me from a yield perspective is real estate. But often times they've either levered up on it or had some relative experience with it. You're taxed every year on your real estate holdings, at least in Texas. And so they look at, hey, can I shift or allocate, you know, shift out of and, or allocate new capital into an environment that will still give me that inflation hedge. But answer rings the bell from the yield perspective, energy, energy is this inflationary hedge because as a mineral owner, well, not because of, but a, a nuance of the, of the mineral owner is that we're owning the hydrocarbon in the ground. So all of our funds, we, we do year end reserve reports, our investors get a, a, a very clear line of side of what they're allocated percentage of the actual hydrocarbon, the oil, the gas, the natural gas liquids that we own on the balance sheet and hold that as a, as frankly a, a preservation in some instances. And here we are again, this parallel to Bitcoin, right, the preservation of, of, of value and preservation of capital that's sunk into the ground quite literally from the acquisitions that we make to the hydrocarbon that they own in the ground. And and that's been we usually that's a that's kind of a round two conversation. What's particularly when they go through that first launch of, of the fun that they're in, recognize that there's there's yield that comes with it. We're in a depleting resource environment. So unlike real estate where you can you see that appreciation, there are tax advantages that we that we take it, you know, that we step into because of the depletion of the resource. And so there's some nuances there that are that are quite compelling right to the typical LP that comes into a fund with us. But as we continue the conversations with them, they look at and go, gosh, you know I invested into a mineral fund with you Matthew and. Our reserves, we've got a 203040 year reserve life. We can see income stream and passive flows for multiple decades out. Do we know what the price of oil and gas is going to be? Of course not right. Like we all kind of have a general leading price deck that we work with, but they look at it and go, man, I put some capital over here, I'm getting this yield, it's protected. And I can see that the visibility to the resource in the ground is locked in. And that, that is a part that rings a bell with even in LP's that I have that have never been in the oil and gas business. Maybe they're long time real estate investors. They they appreciate that lock in of value very quickly. Makes a lot of sense, right? Because people for a number of reasons are looking for assets that can provide a reliable cash, you know, reliable stream of income. And one of the things that you said that stuck out to me early in that answer was people want to get out of cash and into an asset. Now, this is something that anyone that has, you know, some amount of wealth understands this innately because they are actively allocating capital out of a checking account, out of a savings account. But I think a lot of people don't fully appreciate why they're doing that or they don't necessarily understand the root cause of why they're doing that. So if we could try to bridge the gap now and bring some Bitcoin into the conversation, help me understand when Bitcoin got on your radar and how did the professional background that you have influence your understanding of it and get you to a point where you're so convicted in it that you wanted to incorporate it into the investment strategy, which will unpack more, but let's. Start there. A lot there, a lot there. So maybe some of your listeners know Tim Kotzman, maybe not. Tim is a, is a, or was, I should say, a land man himself. And so Tim and I, we traded, we were on opposite sides of the table from a couple of different trades, from just pure oil and gas trades. I can't quite remember if he was selling, I was buying or I was selling his buy. I can't, I can't tell his years ago, but I've just, I've just always stayed in touch with him. I reached out to him. Gosh, I guess it was last September. I was in New York for a natural gas or sorry, a natural resources convention. It was a bunch of, you know, like really big think tanks around the commodity complex and where prices are going and supply demand, all this kind of stuff. And I said, hey, Tim, like, let's go get dinner. We met for, for dinner and drinks and all he could talk about literally was Bitcoin and MicroStrategy and Bitcoin and Bitcoin and Bitcoin. And I thought, he's lost his mind. You know, I came away from dinner and going what in the world? But then on the flight back to Denver, I began to he sent me a handful. Well, I say a handful, maybe 3 or 4 different podcasts on ramp being one of them. OK, so start watching the videos and and so much of what they were talking about was this concept of sound money of hard assets, right? Like, and it resonated so quickly. And then what layered on top of it was the the electricity of these guys that have been in Bitcoin yourself, Michael, guys over it at True North and their podcast. I was just just trying to get my head around, but the electricity and the energy reminded me those early shale days. I said, OK, so I can, I'm starting to see why he's so electric about this and the opportunity set and scale and size and what's happening. And that was the end of last year. That's what led me down this really deep dive of sell money and and hard assets. And the, the more I kind of would, I would do enough research, come back up the rabbit hole, reflect on Maevlo's track record. What do we own? What's been working? What are we, what do we have expertise in, right. Well, turns out it's hard assets. It's this scarce asset in oil and gas. It's this like proof of work concept that it that's inside of Bitcoin. That resonated with me really hard of, you know, this isn't just like how you can get Bitcoin and someone pushes a button on a keyboard and then well, bam, there's just more of it out there. There's this process of, of the proof of the work that continues to get more and more difficult. And I thought this is like drilling a oil well. You know, people think, Oh yeah, well, you're in the oil business, right? Like you just, you just ride around in West TX and you drill these wells. It's like, man, it's so hard, right? And, and so the proof of work part was kind of my aha moment to go. I've really got to understand as much of this as fast as I possibly can because of the, because of the nature of the, of largely how the Shell revolution took off. It was like every quarter we saw a new company, a new private equity shop, a new finance, a new play would emerge. And it was like, Oh my gosh, this changes everything. Wait 90 days. Oh my gosh, this changes everything. And so that excitement that, that energy in and around what's happening in the Bitcoin ecosystem. I was like, Hey, like, I've, I've hit this point in my career, like I remember this, I remember when this happened and it small plays became bigger. There was this kind of adage in the shell play is, is small plays get bigger and big plays get biggest. And at the time I was 20 something, I was like, what what, you know, like what does that mean? And I think that's where we're at. And Bitcoin is is small incremental moves get bigger. We've seen it politically at the federal level, at the state level, even on the even on the company level right now, you have so many different Bitcoin treasury ways that they're getting involved. So small plays become big and then bigger, you know, those big plays get enormous and I think that's where we're at. What's the time horizon on that? I don't know yet, but all right, how long is a piece of strain? We'll we'll soon see. So through that, all through this process, I'm looking at going, Oh my gosh, OK, here's a here's a hard asset has this proof of work concept. It, it's a store of value, right? It's digital gold started to really kind of resonate around those things and saying, wait a minute, this is what Mavlo does. We're in this in, in you to pull a phrase from Michael. So we're in this analog world almost right. Like I if, if you want to get into the oil and gas space, like there's a process, right? It's hey, Jackson, we're going to stand up this fund, make a contribution into the fund. We'll execute the strategy, we'll buy those minerals, we'll we'll steward that capital and we're going to send you distribution from that. You have a claim to those minerals, but man, that takes takes a lot of time and a lot of brain power and a lot of a lot of elbow grease, right? Whereas you come to this digital, this digital aha moment of, Oh my gosh, like I can store value. It's, it's decentralized, which is a massive part, right? Massively scarce asset, the most scarce asset we've ever seen. So that resonated with me from an oil and gas perspective. We're in this depleting world of oil and gas assets. And so I started to lining up all the check boxes and going golly, like we need to do a better job communicating to our partners that there is this thing that is extremely parallel to what you're already investing in, but it's in a digital environment. You can literally swipe a phone and position capital into Bitcoin and put it in multi institution custody. Thank thank goodness for you guys, which we I'm sure we'll talk about, but we use on ramp inside of our 4th fund. I have it on my corporate balance sheet as well, but that's that's really kind of my aha moment with Bitcoin. Started with Tim Cos so shout out to him, Cosman and then just doing the work right. I don't I I I told some investors the other day Jackson like had this. I had this punch list. I should have printed it off, but it's like often times people start with Bitcoin as a speculation, right? They kind of like in and out kind of time this right in and out and they the more they kind of hold on to it or toy with it, they they then kind of move or graduate into OK, like this is an investment, right? Like I'm, I'm I could see where this could go on a on a scenario of a bull run. They treated more as an investment that quickly morphs into in my opinion. Hey, hedge against debasement, right, like allocate 1% of your portfolio or 2% and the more you do that, the more time you spend on it, which is what I've done. You land on what where I'm at is we look at at it as operational infrastructure. Now we are stacking coin on our 4th fund balance sheet through the multi decade cash flows of the oil and gas revenues that come in and it's an operational component of our fund and we we give that that operational upside and and all the value creation that occurs with it back to our partners through that process. Yeah. So we should talk about that and I appreciate you. Be sure that you are running through that. What my mind goes to is that you are positioning the fund to take advantage of the fact that both of these assets have increasing scarcity, right? So at some point you'd mentioned that, well, first of all, the oil wells themselves, over time, they're kind of a diminishing asset in terms of their production. And there's also, I don't, I don't have the background and I don't have the knowledge, but my perception of it, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, is that at some point we're going to hit peak production of these assets as well, oil and gas, and that energy is going to become more scarce as well. That is going to drive up prices of energy higher. And meanwhile, you have Bitcoin, which continues to become more scarce over time because there's 21 million and every four years there's the halving. So is that accurate characterization of how you think about it or is there a lot more? Yeah, I I've got a PowerPoint that if you'll, if you'll afford me maybe 10 minutes, I'd love to just paint a picture for you for the oil and gas side of things. I'm going to pull that up. Pull it up right now. Yeah, that'd be great. OK, here we go. Yeah. All right. So you're hitting on all the right themes and theses here. When we think about economics, and I'm not an economics guru, but it's very, it's, it's very, I want to say simple, but it's historic, right? We have this equilibrium of supply and demand. As as supply runs up, demand comes down, we find this equilibrium of price. Oil and gas works a little bit, a little bit kind of on its head here because where we're at in the country is we have increasing demand, which we'll talk through here in just a second. And to your point, a very finite supply. And one of the key pieces here in the, in our space is this Hubert curve. And, and it, and they'll be people in my industry like, Oh my gosh, Montgomery, like what are you doing? Hubert was a geophysicist that worked for shale SHELLA, Texas Twain coming out there and what he put together what his his whole kind of thought process was that oil and gas reservoirs, there's their production curve is, is a bell curve. And it doesn't really matter how big or small those reservoirs are, they are going to opt function as a as a natural bell. Curve. And so that was what was the root behind people saying this is peak oil because he would, he would look at production, kind of see it here. He'd lay production out and they would put his perfectly shaped bell curve on there and then say, aha, like, here's where you know, the end of the world. There's peak oil. We're not, it's all, it's all doom and gloom from this point forward. That's not my point. I'm not here to predict, hey, oil peaks here, gas peaks here. What I want my LP's and your audience understand is that is that shale plays oil and gas particularly in the Shell plays is vastly immense. OK, we went from net importer to net exporter. We are, we the United States are the £800 gorilla in the room when it comes to natural gas, which we'll we'll touch on in a little bit, but they're immense, but they are not infinite. At some point we will roll over on the production side, OK. And so hold that thought and then let's Scroll down to this to this next slide. And so then we got 22 really key variables here, supply and demand. What I want to talk about right now is this demand picture and especially as it pertains to the headline news. And this is where I think so much of the headlines in the news media talk about the AI data center demand that's forthcoming. What's what is out there, but not talked about is the exceptional growth in what's called the liquid natural gas market. So as I said, we're a net exporter of natural gas. And so this graph on the left, you can see kind of where we're at our base load. Let's frame this up a little bit here, Jackson. Our our base level production right now is about 100 BCF billion cubic feet of gas every day. And so now we have all this gas that we've brought online. And so naturally the markets have found an A place to take this gas and ship it across the world, goes to parts of Europe, parts of Australia. And that market is only just begun. Right now, we we ship about 11:50 BCF, so 10 to 12% of our total in the liquid gas market. That's estimated to go upwards of 25 to 30 Bcfa day by 2030. So now we're seeing, Oh my gosh, OK, so we have this pie. It's 100 BCFA day of supply. About 10% of that goes to LNG. That number is going to triple in the next 5 years. OK. So hold that five. Then we think about the AI data center revolution. I don't understand the, the AI and the computer complexity of what that is. But what I do know is that in order for all of that to work, you've got to have a ton of electricity. And what we're seeing is that the, the electricity demand is a, is flowing directly to the natural gas demand. We project that there's going to be an at least an another 8, possibly 10 BCF of gas that's demanded for electricity generation just for AI data center build out. And so where where's Matthew going with all this? You can pull down that next slide. Where Matthew's going with this is when we stack up LNG exports of 10 to 15 BCFA day. We have data centers at 8:00. We as a country where we are retiring coal generation power plants, our demand is continuing to grow. So there's the better part of 20, what I think will be 25, potentially 30 BCF of gas that we have never accounted for in the past. And so now you're getting into this man, almost 25 to 35% of our country's supply goes off the market just in those two categories alone. OK. Well Matthew, you say we've got all the supply that that answers the question. Something that's very important here is these, these shale wells regardless of what formation are hyperbolic, they start high and they fall drastically. When we when the industry drills a new well, it recovers almost 80% of that entire wells productive life in the first two years. So year three to year 40 is, is kind of the tail. It is the tail. It's the it's the last bit of that well. And so if you think about supply side and how much gas we need to produce in order to meet this growing demand, you go well, OK. So like just drill the next well, drill the next well. The problem with that is our industry has drilled out in the last 15 years. You scroll the next slide in the last 15 years, we have already drilled out the best parts of of all of the Shell plays. And so this is this is kind of that hopefully that aha slide. So it's a little small and that's my fault. But on the far left there, look at the graph that's on the bottom half. That's your, that's your production supply all gas across the entire nation starting in 2010. And you can really see the ramp up from from becoming a net importer of gas and exporter of gas and what is really beginning to occur. So ramp up from 2010 to it's very clear 2019 really kind of 2020-2021 we have incremental year over year production growth and beginning in, in really kind of 2122, that rate of that growth regardless of how many wells we've put on begins to plateau. Now you can say, well, OK, Matthew, like we'll find the next field, we'll find the next basin that's behind us. We have found all the basins in our country. This is the part that I think is being missed generally speaking because the demand side is one thing we can look at, we can look at AI and the data centers and the LNG facilities. But this supply side, we've drilled our best wells. So the, the components of how we view this scarce asset is, is becoming a, a real, a real issue I think will be in the next 5 years ahead because we're going to see this scarce asset in hydrocarbon that has this insatiable demand that's needed. And, and we as a industry, we as a company, we're doing every, as a, as a, as a nation doing everything we can to meet that demand. But I don't think that we're going to have the supply in line today. Now I want to caution, this isn't Matthew saying we go to 0. This isn't Matthew saying we have no more oil, we have no more gas. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that in the last 15 to 17 years, our country has, has witnessed and all of us have participated in some of the most abundant and cheap energy time that we may ever see in our lives. As we think about it at Mavelo, we look at it and say we have a skill set and a team where we go out and buy that hydrocarbon in the ground as cheaply as we can in a fair transaction. Because we believe that the next three 5-7 years out there will be an enormous amount of demand for this scare more and more scarce asset that we own on our balance sheet in the oil and gas rights. Those two equations compute out to higher prices. I think that we see much higher energy prices in the go forward now tied down to Bitcoin. How does how does that work? Thank you for letting me go through that. The, the way that we tie this into Bitcoin is there's a, there's so much parallel in the asset class that we talked about previously. But because we see this revenue generator out of the oil and gas hydrocarbon in Fund 4 is we've given the option back to our partners and we say, hey, we believe that Bitcoin is the scarcest hard asset that we know of. We're giving you the option when you invest in Fund 4 to have some portion of your prorated cash flows that come in from those oil and gas wells and be applied or acquired Bitcoin that's held on the balance sheet while the fund continues its oil and gas product productivity. And so it's a great way for an investor that's never been in Bitcoin. I have a lot of LP's to say I like. I don't, I don't really want to do all the work, but I understand inflation. I understand the basement and currency, monetary currency regime change and what you're talking about makes total sense. I want to invest in oil and gas, but allow my revenues to drip into Bitcoin for me and help me do that. And it's with you guys, right? I've, I've called your, your team over at onramp and said, hey, I've got a bunch of LP's. They all need multi institution custody. They understand custody is a huge issue to get comfortable with and you guys have knocked it out of the park and, and helping them understand that. And so, yeah, that's, that's the little nuance piece there. It's it's we're not trying to you know, buy low and sell high. We're not trying to buy assets and lever our balance sheet to do something special. We're not interested in in raising capital to deploy it and sell the business in two years. Our middle of the fairway, you know, like free drop is we bring good partners with a long horizon. We raise capital, we buy good assets, those assets perform and we stack value at their discretion. So every LP had, I didn't hit on that. Every LP has a discretion of how much they want to allocate. Some LP's are allocating 5050 and they kind of in the later seasons of life and they say, hey, like I, I really kind of need that income, right? OK, that's great. But I also want some of this income to go into Bitcoin storage for my grandkids. Great, let's do that. I've got a handful of LP's to say, hey, like I buy the thesis. I want to deploy this capital, get it moving into cash flow and roll that cash flow, all of it, 100% of the Bitcoin. So we take the allocation partner by partner. Probably one of the most surprising pieces through this, Jackson, is I wasn't really sure what kind of reception we get, but I can tell, I can tell you every single one of our LP's and our 4th fund has taken a Bitcoin allocation. Totally surprised me. All of those, sorry, all but three have never bought a coin. They don't have a wallet, they don't know anything about it. So we're bringing in a very small way, we're bringing more investors or we're putting Bitcoin in front of the noses of of more and more investors, just just one, one fund at a time. It's a brilliant strategy. It's, it's almost scarcity compounded right, in the sense that you have the presentation he walked us through in the past 10 minutes or so in terms of the supply and demand dynamics and how they're both leading to increasing scarcity of oil and gas, particularly in gas as you were discussing. And then over time, you're funneling those cash flows that are diminishing, that are becoming more scarce to find into Bitcoin, which is becoming more scarce. And so you have this compounding effect that is incredibly unique. And I'm excited for what you're doing, not only because we have partnered, but of course, because I think that this is really the way that many people are going to get their first exposure to Bitcoin. I think about how challenging it has been historically, not necessarily to buy Bitcoin. I mean, to be fair, a lot of people don't want to open up a brokerage account with Coinbase or River Oregon on ramp. They would rather just buy the ETF. But even the people who don't want to buy the ETF and have to look at the daily volatility of the price right now, we're we're not looking too hot on the price. And so if you want to just kind of forget about all that and have exposure to Bitcoin in a strategy that you're familiar with, in an asset class that you understand is really going to be such an incredible opportunity for your peers in the oil and gas base, but also for people in other asset classes to find unique ways to get people allocated to Bitcoin because it is going to become an imperative at some point or another. Another thing that you said that concerns me is the fact that we're, we've had such an abundant energy environment and yet prices and cost of living in this country is still incredibly high, right? And so that just goes to show how much monetary inflation there's been, how much currency dilution there's been to the fact that energy prices. Whole podcast just on that topic, you know, it's in the conversations I've had. It's been, it's been fun because it's to your point, you know, they, they, we talk about the oil and gas and the strategy and they kind of get comfortable with our track record and, and our team and that sort of thing. OK, great. And then they go, OK, now unpack this Bitcoin thing, right? And so we go down this rabbit hole and we touch on the pieces that you just did, right? Cost of living, groceries going up, inflation, like where'd inflation come from? Why is it even a thing, right. And you ask some kind of those things you ask it's very simple, broad brush questions like how much of the dollar has been debased in 2025? And these are very sophisticated, very well off folks. They go, you know, it's kind of it's just the way it's always been. And then they, when I paint that picture from it doesn't always have to be that way. And there's there's this tool that is changing this. And I put that out there it quickly, I mean, man quickly gets to what I don't want to. I don't want to be on Robin Hood or, or one of these other pieces. I don't want to do that. And so we get into the custody conversation very, very quickly. One piece I didn't hit on is in in our 4th fund as we execute the strategy. We actually bought the fund bought its its first Bitcoin allocation last month. We're getting ready to to do that again here probably the next two weeks. But we also a function or feature inside the fund is we only hold the Bitcoin no longer than four years, right. And so if we go on a bull run and Bitcoin performs as we believe that it will over multiple years, we call our investors back those that are allocated into the strategy and we say, hey, Jackson, we're going to make a distribution out of Class B. Do you want your distribution to be in cash or do you want it to be a coin? Which I think that's going to be like the, the like stamp on the on the whole strategy is when we get all of our, you know, however many LP's and we'd line them up and we make that transfer of they're allocated so then they can do with it however they wish. I haven't, I haven't talked to an LP. We're not there yet. We've just started. We won't be there for a while. We're going to let Bitcoin perform and do its thing. But it's, it's also a fun Ave. because it, it, it gets that brain thinking of, Hey, there's an exit ramp here to this alternative investment. There's lots of alternative investments out there that lock your money up. It'll lock you up for a decade and this gives us, hey, we can get you your capital back and then some in years to come as this performs without having to sell any of the oil and gas assets. They'll keep doing what they're doing. It's a great point and it's also the lock up in from a fund perspective as well, but also the fact that you're locked up in dollars, right? If you take disbursement in dollars, you're locked up in your bank account, which there's pros and cons that of course have dollars in a bank account, but it's there's a, there's another level to that lock up period. In the sense if you take a Bitcoin distribution, well then you have money that is sitting outside of the traditional banking system as well. And that's like a whole nother rabbit hole that people, your LP's will explore. Maybe some have already, but some we'll explore as that as those distributions become available to them. When it comes to holding Bitcoin securely, Peace of Mind starts with architecture. Onramp's Multi institution Custody distributes control across three independent regulated key holders in a two of three quorum. No single point of failure, no pooled or omnibus exposure. Segregated client titled faults. You retain full legal ownership while Onramp coordinates security, compliance and operational workflows behind the scenes. It's strength of many delivered through the simplicity of 1 faulty institution. Custody is the foundation for everything. We build sound infrastructure that distributes counterparty risk and provides fault tolerant resilience with clear audits and institutional controls. And now on Ramp is piloting flat predictable pricing, making best in class Bitcoin custody and financial services more accessible now than ever. On Ramp strengthen many simplicity in one. To learn more, check out on rampbitcoin.com. Before we wrap up here, we need some positive sentiment Matthew, because the Bitcoin price has been tanking the entire month of October. We're sitting at about 100,101 thousand as we record record here on Tuesday, November 4th. This will be released tomorrow when you have conversations with your LP's and you're still having to get them to understand the merits and convince you said some of them they they understand more quickly than others as it relates to just the inflation and the the problem side. But as you look to explain the merits of Bitcoin and how it solves that problem, and on top of that, what's most exciting to you as you look to like 2026 when you communicate the investment thesis, What are you actually bullish about for Bitcoin? Yeah, no, it's, it's good, I think. So what I started, I started kind of down this rabbit hole and the more conversations I've had with LP's and potential LP's that have asked the same as like where's Bitcoin going to go? What's the price going to be? And I think it's a dangerous and slippery slope. And I've, I've fallen subject to it. But in this process, it's made me pivot away from number go up or the Y, the Y axis. And I've started to tell LP's more and more that this is a, this is a tool and a method to preserve and almost freeze frame the X axis and freeze frame time. And they start going to like, that's really heady. Like what are you even talking about? And I say, well, look, I don't know a lot of things definitely like I don't know what the price of oil and gas Bitcoin are going to do. But I am very confident that M2 is going to go up. Money print is going to go up. Like we're going to talk about number go up. Let's talk about money print go up. Dollar debasement is going to happen. Destruction of the value of the dollar has only been on 100 + a year tear, right? There's nothing in remote site that that's going to change. And so I'm very, very excited by the by the opportunity that we're in this chapter of whatever you want to call it, live chapter of time where we have we have this instrument that we can grasp and hold on to and store value. We say it at at Mabel allies, part of our mantra. We're family life investing. And look, Jackson, we all work really hard, right, in all of our respective disciplines and careers and jobs. And it's a, it is such a dis disheartening feeling, heartening feeling when you get to the end of the rainbow or you retire or you're on fixed income, right? And you're on a pension and you see the value of that destroyed by the time you get there. And what we were trying to do is provide a vehicle that allows our our team and our partners to do family and do life and do investing in any, any way that they see fit. I mean, what is all this for, right? If you talk to anybody, they say, well, I'm trying to how do this. You want to spend more time with your kiddos, more time with your grandkids, more time with your family or you want to do life right. You want to take a trip or you want to go do a, a college tour or you want to you want to do do life itself. And our view on this is that the oil and gas career part of it is a function. Bitcoin is the operator operational infrastructure for us that allows us to do life, do family and do investing. We we view, you know, it will go up, it will go down. I think that we end the year higher than where we currently said it. It is a, it is a, a volatile thing to look at daily, but you're talking to somebody that's been in the oil and gas, but that's all oil going negative in 2020. And the worst thing you can do is spend time looking at it, right? Like just figure out your path of how do you how do you stack more of this product, more of this tool that can freeze frame value so that you can do life and do family and do investing. That was brilliantly said Matthew. I don't. Think it's a great brilliant. It was a great place to wrap up, though it certainly was. You know, as much as we like to look at the Bitcoin price, your points are incredibly true. And they're important for those who are newer to the asset or the technology, however you like to think about it. And they're also important for those who've been around a while because the price can be a big distraction. And to your point, the other side of the story, we know for sure, I mean, Bitcoin, you know, for sure in the sense of how the blockchain works. We don't know for sure how the project of Bitcoin will end up 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. But we do know is the other side of the story that for $38 trillion in federal debt, that number continues. It doesn't matter who's in, who's in office. The Federal Reserve manipulates the the interest rates, the money supply, These things are not going to change. There's all the incentive for them not to change. And so, yeah, I, I think you really put it well when you just said that it's a way to kind of operate, forget exactly how you framed it, but it's a way to operate so you can focus on everything else in your life that's important. That's ultimately what Bitcoins allow. Yeah, If you want to look at the chart, look at the X, don't look at the Y, right? Like measure on time, measure and build a strategy of how you can implement ownership into the scarcest asset that we've ever seen and hold on to it as long as you can. And, and lose regard for what's on the Y axis, right? And have have greater regard for what's on the X and, and, and then turn off the price points and don't look at it and go back to finding a way to, to get more on your balance sheet for you and your family and your friends who you talk to. That's probably the coolest thing is like an oil and gas. We we find a good little development field or we find a good discovery and you don't want to tell anybody about it. You just want to right there and you want to go drill your well. That's been a really kind of change of of mindset for me is like, no, you want, you want everybody to get in. You need everybody to get get off of 0. A 10th of a coin, half of a coin doesn't matter. Just get off of 0. It's. A strong message. Well, Matthew, thank you so much for your time today. For those who want to get in touch with you, learn more about Mave Low. How should they find you? No, thank you so much for that. I think the best and the easiest way is on our website maevlomaevlo.com and start there. We have lots of information about our previous funds. You can there's font, there's a form to fill out if you're interested in our 4th fund of what we're doing with Bitcoin has some more insights to our partners and some of our blogs and postings that we've put there. Great starting point and we'll we'll love to hear from anybody who wants more information and take another step together. Excellent. Well, thank you, Matthew. It was a pleasure. Awesome, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that On Rat Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com Contact Schedule a consultation with one of our private client advisors.