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All right, what's up everyone? My name is Peter Duan. I am an ex wealth advisor. I'm trying to break into the Bitcoin world and I'm here very excited to have both On Ramp and Arch Lending talk about a financial product that the Bitcoin community has been clamoring about, which is the Bitcoin bonds. So with me, I have again the On Ramp team in Arch Lending. Would you guys like to let's start with On Ramp. Would you guys like to introduce yourself in your role at the company? Yeah, sure. Thank you, Peter. My name is Brian Cabelson, Chief Strategy Officer at On Ramp Focus. A lot of my efforts on all the education, content and research that we produce as well as helping out, you know, various facets of the business, everything from sales to to product and everything in between. So been with the firm for really since the early days, almost two years now, which is crazy to think about. Time has time has flown by, but it's a bit. It's been a lot of fun. Mitch Kochman, I'm Chief Revenue Officer at Onramp. My job is building products and services around our multi institution custody framework. My background started at IBM for about 12 years, went to Bitco for two. During that time it helped exchanges make it through the bear market of 2223 FTX, Silvergate Prime trust, Fortress trust. When the idea of for multi institution custody came to us at at Bitco and you know, building resiliency to, you know, to custody, it was it was no brainer for me that Bitco needed to be a part of it. And then I made the jump to on ramp and I've been here for a year. Wow, wow, awesome. So you, it sounds like you have seen quite a lot and yeah, on ramp is very, very, very lucky to have you. OK, perfect. What about over at Arch Lending? Alright, hey guys. My name is Himantra Sahay, I'm the Co founder CTRV at Arch. And my background is primarily in consumer tech. All the apps on your phone, Snapchat, Tinder, etcetera and also have been encrypted for a while, investment companies as an Angel and ran a small fund. And my friend Dhruv and I have actually been noodling on things for a long time, and we will tell you a bit more about what we're building here in a second. Yeah. Hey everyone, Dhruv Patel, Co founder, CEO. My background was in fintech and financial services, so I started my career off at Bridgewater associates because there is a quant on the research team and then left them to join a fintech startup called Brex early on. Spent a couple of years there launching and scaling different lending products. And as Sumatra mentioned, we teamed up just over three years ago to build, you know, the best Bitcoin back lending product. And, you know, we have a broader vision besides that as a company, but I think, you know, your viewers and that the focus of this is really to hone in on that product and the specific nuances and things that set us apart in the industry there. And so happy to dive deeper there. Perfect. That's a great start. Yeah. What why don't we go into why we all joined this call today, which is talking about Bitcoin bonds. Could you kind of explain what are Bitcoin bonds and how do they generally work? Yeah, so I think there's been a lot of talk about Bitcoin bonds as a thing. I, I, I would say what we're offering is, you know, there's some similarities to what people have talked about around Bitcoin bonds, but it's really a, a Bitcoin back lending product. You know, and the, the real main use case that we're aiming to solve for here is people don't want to sell their Bitcoin and they have liquidity needs, whether it's, you know, various expenses in, in, you know, daily life, a a big purchase, you know, different occasions within life that you, you have liquidity needs. But as we all know, we don't, we don't want to sell the Bitcoin. You don't want to lose out on that upside. And you also don't want to take the taxable event. And so I think there's, you know, there's long been real demand for, you know, high quality Bitcoin back lending products in this space. And frankly, you know, everything we saw in 22 into 23, you know, it, it wasn't all of those products and services weren't built on a very strong foundation and, and therefore you saw the things like rehypothecating collateral and, and various pitfalls of, of that space. And I think that's sort of, you know, a lot of those players got knocked out of the game back then and, and there weren't many left, left standing. And so I think, you know, our thought process and, and thinking through this was one, we know there's huge demand for this, but more importantly, we know we need to do this in a very conservative way and in a way that protects our clients assets at the end of the day. And so that was a lot of the impetus for us finding the guys from March and realizing that they were on to something with doing things in a prudent conservative manner, which it's really aligned with our ethos. And we thought it, you know, it would make sense to to dig in with them and figure out how to do this the right way. Perfect. Yeah, sorry, please. I was just going to say, Brian touched in a few things on why like we've been through a couple of iterations of lending now and we've actually learned from the mistakes of everybody else and what not to do. So as Brian mentioned, there's no hypothecation. We actually above a certain amount we will segregate assets and share the the address with the consumer so they can actually track exactly where their collateral is in all stages. And a few things about how we do things differently from even the other lenders today is we don't take retail capital on one end and lend it on the other end. We're not taking deposits and using that as lending capital. We actually have a very traditional financial facility which is it's quite large in size and it's longer duration. So we don't have the ability to call capital from any borrower and we go longer duration on our loans up to two years. So essentially in, in the traditional world when you have assets, what do you do? Like especially if you have a certain amount, you go to your private bank at UBS or Square or else and you employ the buy, borrow, die strategy, right. You're never going to use your assets as currency. You're always going to borrow against them and extract funds out of that. So you can do that now with us and through the partnership allows the the clients around ramp and obviously the clients that we have over time like benefit significantly by borrowing up to two years and then continuously beyond that. So you can borrow now, in two years, you can roll over into a new loan and keep doing it. And you're just spending the interest on that, not the principal. Got it, got it. And so we do you know, Bitcoiners in general are pretty financially savvy, but for those who are still a little bit newish, you know, we want to be a little bit careful in, you know, using terminology that can confuse people. So would you guys mind kind of re explaining what rehypothecation means and why you guys not doing that? And then what does it mean to be a long duration? Yeah. So essentially rehypothecation and this is this existing financial markets broadly. It's not just a Bitcoin term, but it's essentially when you take out a loan against your Bitcoin, your Bitcoin is now collateral. Rehypothecation means the lender is taking your Bitcoin and doing other things with it to generate further yield. Maybe they're lending it out to other kind of parties. And you can quickly see how in this scenario now there's more risk in the system because you posted your Bitcoin as collateral. That party has since then set your Bitcoin to somebody else. And now if a third or fourth party in the ecosystem goes, you know, sort of bankrupt or has some insolvency event, it impacts everybody along the way. And So what we've strictly done and don't do as a company is touch any client collateral. So we don't rehypothecate. What that means is it sits squarely at our custodian partners, namely Anchorage Digital, which is a federally Chartered Bank and a qualified custodian in the US And we can prove it to our clients as Hemansh, you mentioned earlier, with loans above a certain size where we segregate the Bitcoin on chain and share that address with our clients so that they can see during the duration of their loan and nothing has come in or out and their funds have not moved. So that's the first on the rehab application. And then to answer your second point about duration, this really just means for how long you're taking out the loan for. You'll see typically, you know, in in this industry, most people are doing shorter term loans. And what I mean by that is maybe 90 days, six months or less. But as Amash you mentioned, given the way we've raised our financing as a business in a CLO traditional structure, we actually allow our clients to take out loans up to two years and at the end of that cycle, they can go and roll that over into another two year loan. And so this really allows them to borrow continuously and as the price of their Bitcoin appreciate, they can easily access more cash again. Got it. So could you tell us about the loan terms? So you already mentioned that you guys have up to two years. What about the loan to value, also known as LTV? And what about the interest rates that you charge? Yeah. So in our partnership with Onramp, we offer 50% loan to value or anything up to 50% loan to value on Bitcoin. There is a model call event at 70%. So when that happens, you have 24 hours to either post a little bit more collateral or pay down some principle in the interests of bringing your LTV down to a healthy LTV again. If it does hit 80%, there's a liquidation trigger. We never liquidate the full amount, just a small amount to bring you back to a healthy LTV again. And then the interest rate that we mentioned. So it's 14% interest and then there's a 1 1/2 percent origination fee. Got it. Why? Why did you guys establish that as an interest rate? Yeah. I think sort of like the interest rate is, it's not just like a set number. It comes from various like a variety of different ways to back out of it. The first is where the federal funds rate is in general, which you know after the last few years of us being at nearly zero interest rates, the baseline interest rate is much higher now nearing sort of like 5:00-ish percent. And then as a result of that lenders are more priced as a spread on top of that. So when you look at us as a non bank lender, we're raising capital from large financial institutions that allow us to then generate like lend out to our end clients and our business model is really the spread in between and that's how we get to this 14% number. And then I will say that the cost will be going down over the current months and definitely over the coming years. Why do you say that? It's just a function of scale. And then also as well one, I think like the macro environment is looking like, and, and don't quote me on this, but it is looking like rates will be dropped over the coming months. And then as we scale our facility and we have, I mean, we can get into the nuance of the capital that might be less interesting to this audience. But there is a mezzanine charge. The senior tranche senior challenge is cheaper because they're the 1st to get paid back. Those guys are slightly lesser yield than the mezzanine tranche. And then as a result, our cost goes down when there's more of people coming in. Yeah. And then one other point and then maybe to answer Lord's question, the interest rate is 14% annualized. And then the other point of why rates will come down over time. I think, you know, the folks on this call and people listening in understand Bitcoin as a pristine collateral and, and you know, one that is very ideal from like a lender standpoint. But the fact of the matter is the capital markets are just now understanding this and catching up to this. And so as more and more people do their diligence, the largest credit funds, the banks, as they get more and more involved here, you'll start to see the capital cost come down in a big way. And and we've had conversations with many of them and that's why we're excited about sort of the future of this and where we can bring and rates down to. Amazing. I I have one question for you guys before I ping it over to the on ramp guys. So I love the fact that you guys say Bitcoin is a pristine collateral. For those who don't understand what that means, how would you describe what that is? So if you look at the other forms of assets that you hold, maybe you own a house, maybe you own stocks, they're getting marked to market at different times, right? There's no continued understanding or agreement on all the prices. Your house might be marked to market every quarter, every year, or when you do a refinancing, your stocks are marked to market between 9:30 and 4:00 every day. With Bitcoin, a trade 24/7, 365, the market can now be stopped. So it's a very clear understanding of value on both sides from the lender side of understanding how much the collateral is worth and as a result of what the LTV is on the borrower side, also understand the same numbers. So we're always on the same page on when some liquidation event or some marginal call event or on the flip side, actually when there's an upsize event. So like one thing we didn't mention is as relatively drops and with the Onrap partnership as it drops under 40%, you can actually use in two clicks on a dashboard, go and borrow more without putting any more collateral up. I see there's another question from work. So does rate automatically adjust over time? It is locked in when the loan starts. However, you have the ability to refinance at any point. Amazing. OK, so I'll wrap guys. I'm sure you guys before you teamed up with Arch Lending have really scoured the whole entire Bitcoin lending landscape to ultimately decide to team up with Arch Lending. I would love to hear about your due diligence process and what was it about Arch Lending that made you guys want to stick your, you know, really good Bitcoin reputation on on on this team? Appreciate the kind words there. So first and foremost, what was absolutely critical for us with going with, with our vendor selection for who we were partnering with for, for the loan product, it was that our clients Bitcoin remained their Bitcoin. And at the end of the day, with everything that had gone on the lending space with Lokfi and Celsius, you know, we, we were getting the ask for loans from our clients, you know, every day it needed to be part of the portfolio, but we, we had to make sure we were going with a partner that, you know, we could be aligned with for the long term. You know, my background is, like I said, is in infrastructure. The product of the arch team is built is, is truly fantastic. And they looked around all the corners that of the things that can go wrong, you know, first and foremost, the, you know, the product is built at Anchorage where you got OCC chartered qualified custodian. It's a bankruptcy remote vehicle. So if something happens to Anchorage, client funds remain, you know, client funds. Secondarily, you know, as far as you know, something happens to Arch, there's a, you know, arch bankruptcy for, for some reason, there's a backup lender that will step in and assume these loans up and through through term. You know, if there's a liquidation, you know, that needs to occur. And even if Arch were to make a mistake on the liquidation, there's, you know, a backup in Galaxy that would help execute a liquidation to ensure that, you know, no loan was underwater. And heaven forbid there's some ugly Wick in a loan was underwater. You know, the responsibility for an underwater loan that falls on the actual, on the capital, on the lending side, not on the lender, not not on the the borrower. So ultimately you look at all that it's a bulletproof system and it's the kind of product that we wanted our clients to be on. And the last point that, you know, we, we, we touched on a little bit, But for, for the most part, if you canvas the lending space, you know, the, I'd say the majority of, of the alternatives out there are going to have open term loans, which you know, is great when you know, when times are good, But when the, when times are not, what happens? It's open term and they can call back capital. And you know, that doesn't happen when Bitcoin's at 180 K and you know, on the way up. It happens when you know, prices are falling and when you generally don't, you know, it's, it's when FTX happens. It's, it's when, you know, three hours happens. That's what's when capitals call back. And it's generally the very worst time that, you know, you might need to go sell an asset to go, you know, get the, you know, cover, cover the loan. And you know, the fact that, you know, these guys have gone through the work to, to do term loans to, to raise the, you know, the, the, the credit facility that they have. That's really a differentiator where I I, I've been talking to clients and the majority of the clients that that we have that interest in the loan product. And you know, a lot of these people are, you know, buying houses with this collateral. A lot of these people are doing things that are very, very long term in nature. They appreciate the two year term. They appreciate the ability that it's a two year term. I can roll over, you know, again in a year from now and get another two years based off of that. And it allows you to to make decisions and with this capital rather than and, and really upsize a loan because you can have confidence in it rather than, you know, just kind of hope for the short term. It really opens up the harder possible there. Amazing. So Speaking of interest rates, you know, so right now you said it's around 14% and you expect that to go down. So talk about that. How are these interest rates going to be adjusted? Is it a very manual process for you guys or would it be automatically adjusted based upon some proprietary formula that you guys have back there? Yeah, for for us, you know, a lot of our product like everything is automated. The the human touches is really our client services aspect. And so anybody can go onto our website, book a call with the team, message us via the chat functionality and you'll see someone from our team come to the call video on and you can answer and ask any questions that you may have with respect to like how rates come down as well. This is this will automatically happen. It's just a function of two, our costs going down as we continue to scale the lenders that we bring on on our side. And then the second is as the the government sort of drops rates in the federal funds rate, our costs come down as well. And so as both of those happen in last step, you'll see the rates on our side reflected immediately. Got it. So I believe the the new regulation repeal is of Saab 121, which allows banks to custody digital assets like Bitcoin. So that is both in my opinion and a great opportunity, but also a potential headwind when you come to a smaller shop like you guys. So what would you say is your big differentiator once big banks start getting their heads around Bitcoin? How do you guys plan to provide the best services when that does happen? Yeah, for sure. I think one Ave. where we really shine is our product experience. And I'd encourage you and everybody else to just go sign up, try it out. You'll basically sign up and having your collateral sent and getting funded. It can happen while we're on the spaces live. It's that quick and that simple. And on the flip side, as we've mentioned, we have very high bar to customer service. You can chat with us at any point on the website at the bottom right of the chat bum, but you can book a call and someone's always going to be there to answer your questions, to guide you through the process and really just to hold your hand because you are at the end of the day, giving us a significant amount of your assets, which we want to make sure that it's in the right hands and it's safe as banks come in, Banks are not known to win on technology. And we've spoken to a lot of the bigger ones who are looking at the space. They may be partnerships coming out of some of them in the future and those banks are going to look to you know people like us on the lending side, people like on ramp on the custody side, really partner for the best in class product versus being able to build it themselves. Because this is a 2 to three-year time to really fresh out and build a product to the scale and service required for a bank to use this. And then having said that, from the conversations we've had with banks, at least on the retail side, this will not be a priority initially. The ones that will offer this an issue would be more on the one off OTC basis to bigger institutions and and clients where they can serve $100 million loan not 1100 K loans. Wow. Yeah. And just just to add a little bit to that, you know, I think, I think there's this assumption that now that the banks are are allowed to come in that they're just going to turn on all these services overnight. And I think, you know, the reality of the situation is that Bitcoin is an extremely unique asset from multiple dimensions, but you know, primarily like custodially, you know, private key management, securing cryptographic material is totally foreign to these guys. And, and you know, to give some of them credit, I think there's, there's been, you know, they've been doing work on this stuff in preparation for this. So it's not like they're starting fully from zero, but it is very different from from any other asset that they've managed or handled or built products and services around. And so I think at least on the on ramp side, you know, I, I'm very confident in our differentiation, particularly on the custody element, which we can go and go more into. But you know, it's another reason why we decided to partner with Arch is because they see our, our vision of sort of how custody evolves in this landscape, particularly around using multi signature, using quorums with multiple institutions involved. And so, you know, in my mind, like realistically we're probably two to three years ahead of the banks in terms of setting up up all this stuff, but it's probably even longer than that because they haven't gone through the learnings and, and all the things that we have to understand that like custody needs to be done differently for this asset. You need to segregate keys across distinct entities. You need to really eliminate single points of failure. And that's completely foreign to how banks operate, right? Like they want to custody all the assets, they want full control. So there's going to be, I think, a long and arduous learning process for, for these guys when they do sort of start to turn these things on because it's, it's, you know, we joke, it's, it's alien technology. Bitcoin is very different from anything else that they've they've managed in the past. I want to harp, harp on that for one second because I, I've said, you know, the majority of my career working, you know, with the banking sector and their infrastructure, First and foremost, like you can lose this asset. It's not a row in a database. You can just go repopulate, which is, which is the entire world that they're used to. But secondly, like bench are run by risk departments and it keeps them afloat and keeps them in business. And it's a good thing, you know, they're conservative in nature. These risk departments make sure that the the banking infrastructure that exists today, your checking account is running on a database and an application that has been hardly touched since the 1970s. Their COBOL applications run by IBM. These are not banks that are are going to jump in with two feet and all of a sudden, you know, just start standing up, you know, custody, custody offerings. It's as a manager said, it's going to be partnerships. They're going to want battle has the tech they're going to want people like both the on Rep and the arch team that that move this, these these assets in this collateral all the time. Like you can't. There's no price on, on being on the experience that that these teams have for really handling people's life savings and ensuring they, they get moved safely. You know, doing the checks of addresses, you know, doing, you know, making sure, you know, whether it's the wires or, you know, USCC, which a lot of clients are, are choosing, making sure we're doing test deposits. And you know, there's, there's processes and learnings in place of that like you, you get from moving billions of dollars of capital. So yeah, they're, they're not going to be able to do that overnight. And so they're, they're, you know, it will be through partnerships and I think both of our products and you know, the price was building together in the long run will will ultimately be be the direction these banks go because you know, they're not going to just spin up new, you know, new wallet tech and go, go, go, go announce products off of that. Got it. So I really want to understand if I am a client who is sitting on Bitcoin and I want to get access to my equity in my Bitcoin, who do I go to? Do I go through on ramp or do I go through Arch who's ultimately supporting and servicing the loan at the end of the day? So Arch is is servicing the loan. If you are coming to us for the partnership here, you would just go to archlearning.com/onram. But you can also just sign up on the website and let us know that you can't Swan rank. We're credit here. But basically you're signing up as an Arch client. You'll configure the loan on our dashboard, you'll sign our loan docs, it's all automated in the platform. And then you'll send collateral to our custody of Anchorage. We'll service the loan. We'll everything from statements, module calls, hopefully not no liquidations, but if that does happen and then also at the end of term when we send the collateral back to you. And this is all very easily trackable in our dashboard. So I'd encourage people to go check it out, see how simple it is, how easy to manage it is. It is quite different from what you're used to in in the traditional banking world. I certainly don't get that level of experience for my Chase or Bank of America accounts, so I'd encourage you to try it out. Amazing. I feel like there's going to be an opportunity down the road where we can do a live demo down the road where it's like, hey, if I'm a client and I'm already custodied with on ramp, you know, what does that look like? What happens if I'm not custody with on ramp? I, I believe there's a, there's a big appetite to see a live demo for that. OK, So I, I'm curious, right, because I believe all of us are here because we're at a very interesting inflection in the Bitcoin timeline, right? I believe this is the one cycle where we don't have the FT XS or the three arrows and we have a crypto friendly administration and therefore going to have a clear SEC guidelines. So this is the first cycle in which it's not just the institution are coming, but the solvents are coming. So I want to peek into both of yours at your company's minds a little bit of upon the services that you're looking to add on or create in the near future. So between now and the next cycle and four years, what are you really excited to create for your existing clients and new clients alike? I can, I can jump on that first. So first, I'm not naive enough to think that there won't be won't be blow ups and events, you know, that happened. You know, whether whether the cycle's done, you know, for, you know, the four year cycle, the Bitcoin typically operates or not. You know, there there will be, you know, over leveraged events, there will be, you know, there will be fraud. And you just like the you know, that exists outside of Bitcoin too. So, you know, we'll be ready for it and you know, ultimately it's in the industry to go build resilience systems that that are going to be the flight to safety when such events occur. Primarily at Onramp, we're focused on building products and services around multi institution custody, custody being the core product where we multi institution custody. And let me let me just frame that for, you know, we've got a pretty large audience here, primarily how custody works today in in broadly the crypto space, but also in Bitcoin is you're building your strongest wall around a two or three multi sick, two or three keys to to move, to move, you know, Bitcoin, you know, to to a natural stuff. If you're choosing realistically, traditionally that all sitting with one firm with multi institution. And I'd say we saw, you know, in the last cycle, prime trust, fortress trust, we've seen the issues that arise when a single party is holding all those keys on ramp was born out of that. And you know, the, the premise is rather than one party holding all those keys for, for custody, you can build a more resilient system by separating key security responsibilities between 3 firms and the end user having a relationship with all three of those firms. So when there's a withdrawal request in the on ref UI and we help orchestrate that, we'll go video verify our end user for the withdrawal request, Then we'll go sign with our key. Then once you know the transactions are verified on our side, we sign, we'll pass a half sign transaction to Bitco. Those are our second signer. Bitco will then verify the end client before doing their signature as well. It's a better system, you know, for when you think about collusion, when you think about loss in infrastructure hacks like the buy bid situation, there's there's a lot of security reasons and fundamentally just building better products that you know, that become possible when when leveraging multi sig. But you know, we have that for the custody solution today. What do we want to do? We want to build a full suite of financial products, IRA lending trade that you know we offer to our clients today, but ultimately end up on that architecture that you know is more bulletproof, you know, not having to go through things like bankruptcy or insurance if there is a, you know, a mistake that that that does happen. So I'd say that's the vision for for what we're doing on the individual side, but we're also on the enterprise and institutional side. We have been and we'll continue to roll out products that that hit that demographic as well. Amazing. What about your arch? Yeah. I think for us, we've, we've had rapid growth in the past year. We know we now serve everything for miners, hedge funds, lots of finance with individuals across the US We have publicly traded companies that hold Bitcoin that borrow from us. So there's a huge variety of needs and we're kind of tailoring our offerings based on different needs of different clients. So one, we're working at the moment is a fully regulated way for you to get yield on Bitcoin and dollars who are offering that can be coming sometime in the summer. And then one, I think service that everyone in the space should offer, they already aren't is the ability to trade. So buy, sell and hold assets on and off from on ramp data today as well. And I think everybody who's holding assets should have that flexibility. So we'll be having that too, again, working with the partners there. And then on the last piece, so one, and this is going to be a very fun one for us, we're quite excited about it is a Bitcoin rewards credit card. So that's going to be coming, I want to say later this year. Amazing, amazing. Got it. So when people hear Bitcoin yield, they get a little bit skittish because of what we mentioned in the last cycle, right, because of, you know, Celsius and so on and so forth. So when you guys say Bitcoin yield, what does that mean and how do you guys generate that yield? Yeah, great. Question, we're still evaluating offerings. The focus really is on maximizing risk and counterparty risk in particular. So there, there may be different buckets that we offer with all the yield generating mechanisms offered upfront. So I can't give you an exact answer on what that is today because we are still evaluating different options. But maybe we'll come back here when that is about to go live and we'll discuss the offering then. Yeah. Perfect, perfect. Yeah, we are coming up about 45 minutes in. For those who are are joining us live, there's almost 700 of you guys. So first of all, we appreciate you. If you do have any questions for either on Ramp or Arch Lending, please go ahead and type it out into the chats. But while we wait for those to come in, just curious to hear in the next 6 to 12 months, what are you guys most excited to work on respectfully within your company? I mean, frankly, I'm, I'm most excited to just give people Peace of Mind. Like that's ultimately what on ramp does at the end of the day is is we help people with their Bitcoin journey for for many of our clients, you know, Bitcoin is a large percentage, if not, you know, close to the entirety of their net worth. It's, you know, what they've worked their whole lives to, to accumulate and the reality of the situation prior to, I think, you know, what we're doing with multi institution custody was there was always something in the back of your head in terms of, you know, securing your Bitcoin, whether you were trusting a single third party or you were managing keys yourself, There was always something in the back of your head that, you know, if something were to go wrong, you know, my my life's worth, my savings could be, could go to 0. Not because I was wrong about Bitcoin, but because I, I chose to, to custody the asset in a way where there was, you know, various pitfalls. And, and, you know, on the self custody side, that's anything from the proverbial wrench attack to getting social engineered or just losing keys, like literally losing the cryptographic material and then it's gone. And then on the other side, you obviously have, you know what, what has been historically the common way, the common alternative to doing it yourself was trusting a single entity. And So what I'm most excited about is just, you know, letting people know that there's another, there's another Ave. outside of those two. And it's what we call multi institution custody, where you don't have to manage keys yourself, but you also don't have to cede unilateral control to any single entity. And that's that's the really critical part about what Mitch was describing earlier, where again, we're distributing keys in a two of three quorum across distinct entities. The result of that is that although the end client is not managing key material themselves, they still control the keys because none of their counterparties can move assets unilaterally. They can, the only way assets move is if the, the client explicitly directs the key holders to work on their behalf. And so that just hasn't existed in, in Bitcoin for the 1st 16 years. And, you know, we're, we're a relatively new firm and we're just trying to, to let you know, let people know that there's a, there's a better way to do this. And, and frankly, you know, from all the sort of testimonials and, and, you know, happy clients that we have it, it gives them Peace of Mind. It gives them, you know, 1 less thing to worry about. They can set up an inheritance plan in minutes. They can know that, you know, the assets that they've worked really hard to accumulate are going to be passed down to their loved ones or, or children, You know, if something were to happen to them. It's just not the case with, you know, other custody models where you're leaving a treasure map and hoping that your, your family can recover assets. And so that, that's ultimately what I'm excited about. It's just giving, giving, you know, people Peace of Mind and and helping our clients ultimately. Amazing, amazing. And by the way, for those who are not familiar with the term $5 wrench attack, it's for you know, it's it's a it was originally a meme where, you know, we do all these pre precautions, right? But then somebody with a $5 wrench will hit you upside the head and just take your keys. So on ramp obviously helps avoid that through multi custody. OK, so here is an interesting one that I want to show on the screen. Shout out to solar symbol. He or she asked, have you had a third party security on it and is it publicly? Available I can, I can speak from our perspective and then maybe Major Brown, you guys can add it from onramp. So we've had a third party vulnerability on it now very recently. It isn't publicly available, but the fact that it's done I believe is I can double check that we also are doing a financial audit at the moment from a represent a consulting firm. Yeah. So for context, we don't do any on chain activity. So a traditional crypto security, a crypto security audit is less relevant here. It's more of a vulnerability audit and a vulnerability test. So it's more like a pen test. And likewise, so we, we've done security odds penetration testing. We, we do share those findings only under NDA. Just, you know, it's a, you know, better security best practice across the industry is, you know, generally that that's the standard. Our and our key agents are SoC audited and I've gone through that process for having external auditors look at the keys as well as there's for don't want to tease and hint that too much. But you know, we, we've had other firms that are up come in and we have not spent later this week, you know, on, on insurance and protecting the platform that way. But we we've done a lot of verification but for our key and also the the keys in the quorum. Well, as someone like me who's not so familiar with the compliance lingo, what is penetration testing? And sock I, I don't know, sock something that you mentioned. Could you explain that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. So on the penetration testing side, you've got an external, you know, third party that is looking at your systems and you know what's publicly available, you know, anything from website to your databases and they're trying to get access. So it's looking at the attack vectors and services and, and seeing if they can get in. So we've, we, we go through that, that those testing, that testing fairly regularly. And then on the, the sock side, it's, it's having accounting firms step in, look at your key process, look at the video verifications, looking at what, what's, what takes part, you know, for, you know, the signing of shards to who has access to the keys compared to, you know, who's verifying transactions. It's separation of duties and making sure that all signings occur with the separation of duties in a very controlled fashion. And we, we've got the form where every single, you know. The agent is, is stock audited for, for those on the institutional side, they did look for that, but it's, it's in the industry, it's it's fairly standard for, for further control process. And this is just my own curiosity, but what are the insurance policies behind both on ramp and arch lending do? You want to speak about the business insurance. Yeah. So I, I think like there's, there's two different aspects of it. 1 is a corporate insurance that you have and this covers things like cyberattacks, ENOD and O different types of insurance that exist at the company level. The secondary is acid insurance and for us or client collateral insurance, this anchorage is insured up to $100 million per incident I believe by boys in London. And so for us and our clients it is full coverage there. And maybe Mitch or Brian, you can elaborate on the on ramp side? Here and then also as Mitch mentioned earlier, assets and Anchorage are in back to remote trust. So they are remote from Anchorage digital entity because it is a separate trust entity and also from our entity. Perfect. So like I mentioned, we do have announcements come in, come in, in, in very at the end of the week, but but at the at the risk of yeah. More to come and come in come. In but but we. We like to say internally like the the best form of of quote UN quote insurance is actually like just key management. Like how are you actually managing the keys is the best form of insurance. If you have a redundant fault tolerance set up with multiple layers of controls, then that's that's the best form of insurance. You just prevent anything from going wrong in the 1st place. But yeah, more, more to come on that front. Perfect, perfect. The the the key there, though, and like what you didn't have with the buy bit hack is you get the separation of infrastructure and if something, let's say there's an attack vector, let's say there's a loss, let's say collusion. You know that happens at on ramp. You still have two key agents in Bitco and coin cover that have totally different infrastructure stacks that have different people that are running those firms that have multiple people that are are involved with signing transactions. It's it's building fault tolerant solution that is the best insurance. So that's why we choose to build on the multi institution custody, you know, framework and standard here. Amazing. OK, we got another question. Most likely this is for Arch lending. Sorry, I don't speak whatever language that is. I can't shout you out. But it. Says Robbie. I can read out, but yeah. Baller, how would prepayment of loans work? Do you see Bitcoin ETFs working as collateral? Yeah. So there is no early prepayment penalty on our loans. So you can go out, choose A2 year term, pay us back in three months, you owe us nothing beyond that month. That's it. So in effect, our loans function as lines of credit. So you can borrow today after two years, keep rolling lower or pay us back. And then also as the price of Bitcoin goes up and the LTV goes down, you can use in two clicks, borrow more, or you can add more collateral and borrow more at any time. Anyway, we actually see significantly more than half of our customers borrow 2 or more times in a year just because they have continuous needs with Bitcoin as their collateral. The second piece is do we see Bitcoin ETFs working as collateral? There have been early conversations here. I would say our difficult customers are holding Bitcoin like spot Bitcoin, not Bitcoin ETFs. So they prefer to use use that as a collateral. I know ibed is working on something with Bitcoin ETFs as collateral. I don't think any of the other ones have anything in the works at the moment, but I could be wrong. Got it, got it. Well, perfect. I'm just going to end on a little bit more fun one and I'll probably answer this one. Dylan Gardner asked, how did you guys get started in the Bitcoin world professionally? What recommendations would you have for a college student attempting to learn internships and future jobs in the industry? Now, I don't think we have time for all of us to talk about our Orange code histories. However, this is just my personal recommendation for myself. Like I said at the very beginning of this call, I used to be a wealth advisor and but I also had many, many different finance experiences. What I found to be extremely helpful is to, I call it make waves for other people, right? So I think this call is a great example of that in the regards that I saw on ramp and Arch lending having this amazing partnership. I saw that this is going to be greatly needed for Bitcoiners, and so I was already going to do the research for myself anyways, but I just decided to distill it down into a easy to understand, simple to implement and readable format for the community. And the community rewarding that by, you know, liking it, sharing it, retweeting it. And here we are just a week later with 841 live viewers. So really this world, whether it's in Bitcoin or not, is really your oyster in the regards that you can just go out and do things right. Especially now with just a Twitter account, you can make a name for yourself. Now, there are obviously, you know, ways that you can do that, that that is beyond the scope of this conversation. But really I think a big need in the Bitcoin world is always Bitcoin education and Bitcoin marketing, OK? Fundamentally speaking, Bitcoiners are very, very logical people, OK? While that makes understanding Bitcoin very well, it does not make orange piling very easy and it definitely does not make marketing your Bitcoin product and service easy as well. So find what is the lack in the industry and just simply add value through your own unique zone of genius. OK so we have about 3 minutes before the top of the hour. I just want to go around everyone to to have a a a parting thoughts and also share your personal Twitter handles if if you want to do so. Yeah, sure. So I'm at back slash BTC, the word backsplash, back slash spelled out. And yeah, thanks for having us on Peter. This is a a great combo and always happy to answer folks questions and and let people know what we're doing. So I appreciate the the airtime, Mitch. Under score Kochman on Twitter parting thought is actually because we the the question we just, we just got asked is, is one we get all the time because people get so passionate about the space and and they want to do it for a living. One piece of advice that I, I tried giving, because we all had to go through it was take, you know, I, I, I was an IBM exec and what did I do? I did enterprise sales. And what I ultimately found success after a few failures was I tried to find what was most similar to what I was doing in the Fiat world and how did I go apply that to Bitcoin. And once I went B to B enterprise sales to B to B enterprise sales in, in Bitcoin, it was, it was crypto to start, but and you know, I end up selling to custody services to exchanges and platforms. It was very similar to what I was doing at IBM. Once I found that, and it's not always easy, but to research the companies and do the work, it became much easier and I got a lot more open doors. So, you know, if you've got questions, you know, reach out. I'm, I'm happy to help and share, but you know, we, we do need talent, the Bitcoin space. So, you know, and it's, it's not easy breaking in, but I just, if, if you've got the passion for it, I encourage you to do so. Yeah, I think I want to add to that as well. Like this is a very new space in the grand scheme of things and skills from other industries definitely translate. You know, if you're a good engineer, you don't have to be an engineer that understands Bitcoin, but you can pick it up. Same thing with if you're good at marketing, you're good at sales or something else. So definitely reach out. We're actually maybe hiring an interest. So if you're an engineer, Dylan, shoot us a note and we'll chat. And just to end on my notes, so I'm at HH Sahay, that's HHSAHAY. And then we tweet a lot from the Arch Lending account every day as well. Yeah. And then I'm at D Patel under score 34. And then yeah, so much. You mentioned the arch lending is where we're all most active. Perfect. Well, thank you, guys. We are up to the top of the hour. And I know that there are a lot of you guys out here, but yeah, we want to be respectful of every, everyone's time. Don't worry, there's going to be plenty more of these conversations, and if you guys do want more of these conversations, please go ahead and follow me. Follow me at BTC Bolt rider. You can see it on the screen below for more. But yes, there'll be plenty more of these down the road, so stay tuned guys take care. Thanks. Peter, bye. Thanks, Peter.
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