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It all comes down to computers communicating. The information superhighway can be a confusing mix of on ramps and off ramps. Bitcoin is worthless artificial gold. Is it still rat poison? Probably rat poison squared. We need to get into. The world of OK this is actually foundational technology. What the Internet of Money does is it creates a single network which can do a microtransaction to a giga transaction. The Internet is going to be. One of the major forces for reducing. The role of gun the. One thing that's missing, but that will soon be developed is a reliable E cash. All righty, gentlemen. Welcome back to Final Settlement. Today is Wednesday, March 12th, 2025. Not a whole lot to talk about. Not not really anything happening in the Bitcoin space. Would you would you guys agree with me today? My Co host Liam Nelson, Michael Tanguma, you've got Tim Kotzman on the show today and Chase Palmieri from Acropolis. But boys, what's what's the temperature out there? Prices kind of going sideways to down, but the United States is embracing Bitcoin as a reserve asset. What? What do we make of this? I'm excited for today's podcast. I've been looking forward to it given since we've last chatted or since you know, three days ago, we have or 4, whatever we have a, you know, largest sovereign putting, you know, Bitcoin on the balance sheet. We have regulatory climate changing folks on this call were in DC yesterday. The macro market is flying around. MicroStrategy I think just announced they're going to put 21 more billion dollars somehow they're going to, you know, buy all the bitcoins. So there's there's no shortage of fun stuff to talk about. Yeah, yeah, that's a a laundry list of events in the past week or so. I think maybe the logical place to start is the executive order from late last week, Kind of old news at this point, but still pretty important. I would say in my mind, the United States is in embracing Bitcoin, recognizing it as a strategic reserve asset, they've effectively committed to a few things. So the setup of a strategic Bitcoin reserve where that will predominantly hold the bitcoins we already have. There's an audit that needs to take place. Sort of insane that we don't know how many bitcoins we have, but that seems to be the case. So we got to track those Bitcoins down. See what we have. The idea is that we will hold those and look to acquire more in budget neutral ways. There's been a ton of talk on on X and elsewhere about the myriad of ways where, you know, we could accumulate Bitcoin in in budget neutral ways. I think Sailor responded to David Sacks announcement on Twitter saying I've got a few ways to to accumulate Bitcoin in budget neutral ways. So there's that playbook. There's other sort of facilities or assets that we could leverage to do that. But I guess the, you know, the other component of this was the digital, the digital assets stockpile, which I think got initially a little conflated in weeks prior of, you know, there was talk of a crypto strategic reserve. It wasn't really clear what that would look like. Was there going to be a delineation between Bitcoin and other assets? The take away is that there is a delineation between Bitcoin and other assets. So I thought to me that was one of the more positive things from this announcement, generally speaking, was the United States government saying Bitcoin is special, Bitcoin is different For these reasons. And therefore we are not only holding the Bitcoin going to look to acquire more and for all these other assets that we've seized over the years, we're going to hold those for now, but we might sell them and we're definitely not buying more. So that was that was a massive signal to me. I think, you know, one of the 1st major signals from this administration that that they understand Bitcoin is special and different. But the price, I think what most people are talking about in, in the, you know, the days and, and week post this announcement, the price has kind of gone sideways to down. Now. I, I would say a lot of that is probably related to broader macro forces. Liam, Liam, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on this. I know you you'd written up some stuff for a newsletter around this, but any, any thoughts on it? You know, is this just Bitcoin getting caught up in risk off sentiment generally speaking around, you know, all the activity around tariffs, just general uncertainty. I think that's what's what's back in the market is, is uncertainty and A and a general risk off sentiment. So any thoughts around that? Well, kind of before touching on price action for a SEC, just wanted to take a step back and the David Sachs who is the AI and Cryptozar is essentially he put out a tweet and said over the past decade the federal government sold approximately 195,000 Bitcoin for proceeds of 366 million. If the government had held the Bitcoin, it would be worth over 17 billion today. That's how much it has cost American taxpayers to not have a long term strategy. And he is implicitly understanding the opportunity cost of not holding Bitcoin. Anybody who dismisses or doesn't or sells Bitcoin automatically realizes how much more they would have had, how they just held on to their Bitcoin over a long time period. And I think over a longer time period, we, we keep on hearing that Bitcoin is a hurdle rate and we're starting to recognize that the government sees that too. I thought it was super interesting that they announced budget neutral ways to acquire additional Bitcoin. And some of that which they David Sacks talked about on the All In podcast was selling other cryptocurrencies in order to buy Bitcoin. And having Howard Lutnick in charge of that is definitely going to accelerate that. But in terms of the price action immediately following the announcement, I think expectations were just a little bit too high. They thought the government was going to go out and immediately acquire Bitcoin themselves. In addition, there continues to just be a ton of, you know, different macro forces like higher Japanese bond yields, rising delinquencies across, you know, consumer credit mortgages that are giving investors some pause. But in general, this is not to be taken away that this is a monumental shift in terms of the US government understanding the opportunity cost of not holding Bitcoin long term and putting that into an executive order. Yeah, on the pricing side, I mean, I want to throw it to our buddy Timbo here. I guess he updated his his name and you know, if you went on his Twitter, you'd have no idea that price. You would think that we're probably, you know, north of 200 to $300,000 because I just keep seeing in my feed 1,000,000 by 2025 and 2,000,000 by 2026. So Tim, curious like what your reaction was seeing, you know, the announcement and and what do you think's coming next? Well, when you walk with Michael Saylor a few blocks along in in DC during a beautiful day and talk for 5 minutes, you, you have nothing to be other than bullish. But even before that, yeah, I just think there's so many encouraging things happening in the market that we'll get there. It's only March, it's still Q1 and just whether we get to 250 or 500 or a million, the fact that I can post those things, they get a quarter million views and 500 comments and most of the comments are telling me how much of an idiot I am. I mean, that's interesting to me, right? Not because I think I'm wrong or right, but you know, it's a lot of people with a lot of opinions, a lot of people, a lot of time on their hands. I think the more that you engage with the community, you go to these events, like I'm sure we'll get to the, you know, DC event, which is very encouraging to have now bills both in the House and the Senate, 6 Co sponsors with each one Lamas center. Lamas on stage saying that the president's behind this bill to acquire the point. Every five years you've got sailor on stage after that saying we should buy 5 million. I mean, I don't know. Those are not reasons to be bearish. So yeah, interesting times. Yeah, it's super fascinating to think through. Like there's the things happening in the public eye when it comes to diligence and driving to consensus and governance, you know, from a state level to the sovereign level. And then obviously, if individuals work in this industry, they're having these conversations as well. And it's just this reality and we talk about this a lot. It's why like Bitcoin will generally be driven almost always or for a very long time by the individual just simply because it's a consensus of 1. So they can always ape into the their whole, you know, net worth family office, very similar, similar to switching their custody model where these large groups, there's just so much. And this is part of the podcast is talking about treasuries and what Chase and Acropolis and, and Tim have been working on on his podcast is that these groups are just like, I don't know, there's probably not the first inning and for some first inning, but others that we're talking about, they're in 2nd, 3rd, 4th where they're going through the process, but they're just aren't ready to start, you know, from a liquidity perspective, making those purchases. So it's going to be very fascinating to see when that all kind of like converges together. Yeah. The, the other thing that I've been thinking about the past few days is, and I think we said something similar sort of like post ETF launch when we had, we saw similar price action where after the ETFs went live, it was sort of maybe sideways to down before it really started to to pick back up. And I think at that time, you know, we had mentioned on, on one of our various pods like, yeah, this feels like the, you know, on a risk adjusted basis, like the cheapest bitcoins ever been given the, the trajectory that we foresaw, I think you could say a similar thing now hanging out in the 80s. Like I don't think there's ever been a better opportunity to enter, enter Bitcoin if you, if you're on zero, if you have 0 allocation. And part of that, I think is this sort of ongoing battle in terms of, you know, people digesting and understanding like what is what is Bitcoin and, and how should it trade? Is it a a risk on speculative asset or is it a a risk off strategic reserve asset? And I think it's the, the general perception is like it's one or one or the other, right? Obviously the sailors of the world are are vouching for it being this reserve asset corporations who are adopting it and putting it on their balance sheet are are also viewing it as such. But then there's a whole swath of the market, largely more, you know, short term oriented, you know, traders and hedge funds who are still very much sort of looping it in with other risk assets. And so you've seen equity sell off in the past few weeks. And I think that that's, you know, you know, Bitcoin is still being lumped in with that sort of sentiment and risk off sentiment. And so I think what we're going to see play out over the next several months to years is the pendulum swinging to more and more people every day realizing that, no, this is not a tech equity investment, this is a reserve asset. It's really the most riskless thing you could own in your portfolio. And so I think we're just somewhere in between those two sides and and that's kind of what you're seeing play out in the price action. And you know, for the past week or so, those more short term, short term oriented folks have have been winning that battle in terms of where the price is headed. But I think there's also just a digestion period that needs to take place where, you know, the US government is coming out and saying it's a it's a reserve asset. You can, you can bet that every central bank around the world, every other government is taking note of that and saying, well, what's our, what's our strategy with Bitcoin, particularly if they have zero Bitcoin today, because then, you know, they're somewhere between 100 and 200,000 Bitcoin behind the United States in terms of stacking Bitcoin. And so, yeah, that's just kind of my take away around price action. Yeah, just to or go ahead, Liam. No, I just, you know, I mean, we also just saw a couple hours ago that MGX made a fairly large investment in finance that that definitely wasn't unrelated to the US making this announcement. There are other sister company. So MGX just taking a step back is UAE state-run investment fund. Mubadala is another one of their funds as well. They invested over 400 change billion in Bitcoin ETFs which came out in Q4 investment filings. But yeah, I mean, there are other countries that not just, you know, individual people that are definitely taking no notice and trying to figure out what their Bitcoin and and even crypto strategy is at this time till. Yeah, that's a separate thread. We should chat about the MGX like and just in general that that's exactly right. Like that is sovereign exposure at the most like 40 chess level in my mind, in the sense of you go and you see how there's just natural geopolitical games coming to fruition when it comes to talent aggregating from the no income tax to other things that are making sovereigns more friendly for innovation and to go there. And so we've seen from SoftBank to the UAE, different large swaths of capital going to try to get exposure into hard and soft tech in the West and then pull it over and get a lot of the data. AI has been this big theme. But to your point, to go take a $2 billion position and one of the largest exchanges is proxy exposure for global exposure to the sector, to crypto, to Bitcoin, because majority of that Bitcoin, that capital's probably going to be held on their balance sheet. I think by I would imagine finance is very much cash flow positive. But really quickly just to, I wonder if there's something to you guys because it's going to be a little like polarizing or like just a little bit different in the sense of I don't think there's that many people buying Bitcoin like the like there's a few things. One is I think Brian's absolutely right, absolutely right that very few people hold Bitcoin and the people that hold Bitcoin that are most likely to sell it are the people that have very heavy exposure to everything. So we're looking at a screen of the total addressable landscape of value roughly 900 trillion and Bitcoin sits at 2 trillion. So of course any sell off in the traditional markets is going to affect the small asset, especially if what is generally I think been understood is a lot of the flows from the ETF have been hedge funds trading are being out the basis trade. And this notion of well, if they have exposure to these other assets, I think it was like reporting NVIDIA lost a trillion in market cap yeah, something like that yeah, something a trillion in market cap the past 10 days. I I was listening to something it was only 700 billion that the bailout was in O8 for 700 billion that's 700 Jerry worlds think how long it takes to Jerry world. This is 1 trillion wiped off of just one stocks market cap. And so point being is that, and we see this like anecdotally, outside of individuals, there are very few institutions in large pockets of capital that are really allocated to this asset. At best, they're really trying to figure out like what's their game plan for digital assets and what's the difference between Bitcoin and the rest. And if that's even remotely true, then there's just not much capital coming into this space yet outside of that. So when liquidity markets get constrained, it's natural there would be a sell off and I'd go again a step further. It's like joking around. This is hyperbolic, but it's like outside of Michael Saylor, I don't think there's that many people that have actually been buying Bitcoin in size like UAE. Obviously they've stepped in, but it feels like there's been this consistent bid for five years, somebody picking up 50,000 at a clip, portions of BTC. But there's not these large, you see it in the filings. There's not that many corporates, there's not many pension funds. I think there's like two or three in the US and then the ETF has been that, that new influx, but there's just not this crazy to man because it comes up a lot in Group check chats and with clients about who's selling. And I, I think it's just the reality is there's not really that many people buying as well. Yeah, that, that could be part of it. I think the other thing that we've we've referenced in the past is like the ETF inflows are largely retail. Like, I think people conflate those, those flows and think, oh, the institutions are, are aping into Bitcoin when the reality is, is that it's mostly people in their brokerage accounts that are, they're buying through the ETFs or even folks that are, are rotating out of spot Bitcoin and, and would rather have ETF exposure for various reasons. And so, yeah, I, I don't disagree with anything you said, Michael. I think what that does make me believe is that like, again, you know, whether those people are are still learning, still educating themselves or just waiting for a better price. It does feel like a coiled spring in the sense that once once those flows do start, I think there, there could be some explosiveness to the upside. It's just a matter of when because we know the education is happening, we know there's interest. But I think you're right in that in terms of like real size and allocation, you know, maybe it's not really here yet. Chase, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on on the corporate side in particular, because we see headlines every week of new, new corporate XYZ that that has a Bitcoin strategy. But typically those are, you know, it's not meaningful size. It's not, it's not, you know, at the scale of MSTR, right? Yeah, right. It's really only MSTR that seems to be buying in size. We saw Rumble announced today, I think similar about another chunk today, but these, you know, it's like 12 million here, 14,000,000 there. And it's not clear how long they can even keep up that pace before they kind of run out of dry powder. So yeah, I think, you know, to Michael's point, we talked to a lot of companies and you know, we're kind of like a light to the moth. If you're a business that's interested in a Bitcoin treasury, chances are, you know, we've met you or talked to you or talked to somebody within the business. And and yeah, we're definitely having more conversations than ever, but it's still a big lift within a lot of these businesses to actually get to the allocation. So, yeah, yeah, I see the growth happening, but I think definitely still in the early stages of the corporate adoption growth. Yeah. And I think like the best mental model to think about it is like for every sailor, there's just the majority of that base or that sector that has no exposure interested looking at it. For every Ricardo Salinas, that's 80%, There's the majority that are in the same way. And for every one of us, you know, whatever the like per capita number that we'd look at, it's a very similar thing for like, we're just in this like bubble that we just assume everyone's going, but we know the end state, like everyone ends up here because it's just the hardest money. So you want to preserve it. But the market coming to that consensus on Bitcoin versus crypto. And then really the the hard part as we all know going through this is how do you go from just like in material exposure to material exposure? Like, because that's a big leap, right? To take physical world value that you have, including the dollars you can actually touch, and then putting them into this like thing that you can't touch. It's actually kind of a wild thing that I think we forget. And so for a corporate to go from .1 to percent to what sailors doing is literally like going to another planet. And so it takes time to get there. Yeah, I think. Michael, we're going to Mars. Sorry, Liam, like we're going to Mars. OK, get on board. It is true we are going to Mars and that's partially why that 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 get a they. It gets the engagement because everyone feels crazy that they're going to Mars. So it's always helpful to have somebody let them know that we're still on the right path because it gets real bumpy when you go up the high. But yeah, I mean, to your point, I think Rumble came out with filing today and said they bought like 14 million or or something worth the Bitcoin for diversification purposes, not understanding that like, OK, the goal is to acquire more Bitcoin. It's not like, OK, if everything in the world goes to shit and there's like a debt crisis, then Bitcoin becomes valuable. It's like, no, Bitcoin is is mathematically guaranteed to become more valuable over time just because there will be more debasement. There's different properties to this asset and everything else out there and it's the best store of value over time and it's just going to take a long time for most capital allocators to get there. Yeah, Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, you compare and contrast everything we just said with so. So Tim and I were were down in DC yesterday for the Bitcoin for America conference hosted by Bitcoin Policy Institute and it was hard not to be like insanely bullish at that conference and post it. I'm sure Tim has has some thoughts, but just from from my vantage, you know, it was a very high signal event, well orchestrated. So shout out to BPI for putting on a a concise compact event. It was within, you know, a single morning from sort of 8:00 AM to to 1:00 PM with Sailor doing a presentation. And, and listen, I've, I've heard Sailor do what seems like countless presentations at this point, but his one yesterday was, was, I thought particularly good. There was some new slides in there. I, I found it interesting that he, he added a slide that sort of reference like stablecoins and stablecoin growth. And so I think it was, you know, this presentation was very much tailored to politicians and, and thinking about Bitcoin as a strategic asset for America. But he did add some some color around, you know, why this why stablecoins, I think are going to be a big part of this administration's sort of plan around their embrace of digital assets and and sacs investment have have echoed those sentiments as well. So I don't know if it was just a nod to to them or, or him, you know, really just talking about stable coins for, I think, you know, one of the first times ever, I found that somewhat interesting. But like I said, it was it was a very bullish day, constructive on all fronts. And it's it, you know, the excitement and the enthusiasm from the people there was, was pretty palpable. But Tim, I don't know if you had any takeaways from the day. Yeah, I thought it was notable, just the people in the room, right? Like, we're getting our name tags and I see Anthony, and I'm like, Anthony, you don't come to anything. He's like, yeah, they really said just come to this one. You had Max Kaiser and Stacy, and I mean, they live in El Salvador. Like, so I don't know. I was just like, is this a bigger deal than I thought? So yeah, I thought definitely good vibes, definitely great orchestration by BPII mean when you see these videos, they almost don't need cut down, right. You have Andrew hones up there that like stick into like a 10 minute presentation. Like I when I see it on social media, I'm like, they cut this down. No, it's like a 10 minute presentation and like every single presenter just knocked it out of the park. So yeah, no, I thought it was a great event. And yeah, I mean, not to repeat myself, but right, we introducing the Bitcoin bill, having it in both the House and the Senate, having Co sponsors and a mention of like additional people that they're working on to also add as Co sponsors to those bills. So yeah, in private conversations, it's just kind of like, I think they feel like time is of the essence, not because of necessarily trying to buy Bitcoin at a lower price, but just between now and midterms, now is the best time to get momentum and try to get something done. So hopefully we'll continue going in the constructive direction. One thing that's super positive, you know, the BPI guys are great. It looked like a fantastic lineup and and curated group that there's a Bitcoin, there's a Bitcoin advocacy group that's serious. There's a lot of advocacy groups, they're doing good work. The reality is, and it's just a reality of like the majority of capital that's expendable from a business perspective is with crypto companies. And because they have big marketing teams and big, you know, they've raised capital. So advocacy groups have generally had to engage on both sides. It's just self preservation. Like do you want to live or do you want to die by being, you know, sticking to Bitcoin only? Like that's just a reality of what's happened the past five years and and it's not a good or bad thing, it's just is what it is. But when you have that, you naturally have to sometimes conflate the digital asset space and talk about it, IE crypto ball and you know all that. But it's just super bullish and positive from an education perspective that there's this group that's able to focus solely on Bitcoin, go very deep there. Obviously, some of the mechanics that we talked about with the executive order and the strategic reserve further outline that. But that's just how we get to like pass this carnage that I think we all kind of have anxiety knowing that they're still going to be people that lose assets are still going to be speculation. And so that's like a big take away for me is just like it's, it's starting to, it's starting to just differentiate. It's still going to take time, but it's a positive direction versus not having that at all. Yeah, I think one of the most misunderstood aspects of the executive order is how it provides cover to the Loomis Act, the Bitcoin Act. So like this is Trump getting the Republican Party in line. And I think Sachs has been pretty clever about trying to make sure that any anything done on the this front, whether Bitcoin or digital assets is bipartisan so that it can be lasting. And I think that the EO didn't go so far as to, you know, mention active purchases because its goal is really just to set up the Bitcoin Act to pass in a bipartisan way and be that lasting regulation. And I think that's what's misunderstood. I think that SPR increased the probability of state Bitcoin treasuries and the Bitcoin act and not to mention obviously other nation states getting in the game. And and I think the other thing that most Bitcoiners didn't appreciate, and yeah, there's a big, you know, general market draw down, but I think part of the Bitcoin sentiment draw down as well is this idea of the net neutral budget and how people just simply see that as no new buying and don't understand that somebody like Howard Lutnick can do a massive amount of damage with the US government's balance sheet in a net neutral way. Yeah, it's a really good point. I think there's, there's a number of of tools in the toolbox that I personally trust Howard and and Scott Besent to be able to, to, to leverage to acquire Bitcoin in a, in a budget neutral way. Michael, I wanted to, I wanted to bring up a chart which we we talked about a few weeks ago. You have to be very careful in doing this because I'm going to make you a bet after and then you're going to owe me money. I haven't actually called it out because. So we're going to do the. First, I've been right thus far. I think it's we probably talked about it back, back around here and you were calling the top on Bitcoin dominance and we've continued to grind upwards. Yeah, so this is what happens when when people like to get a little clever and pull this up prematurely versus we can pick a time frame, whether it's end of 2025, you know, let's call it middle of 2026. This chart will reverse and whatever we bet here you'll owe me. I didn't bring it up because I didn't want you to be like, oh, I got it. I thought you'd be. I thought, Brian, you'd be smarter. Than that it's not over. I'm just saying, I just wanted to update the audience, update our listeners on the status of our our little quarrel here. Yeah, I think ultimately like it. It makes complete sense in what what's happening simply because Bitcoin is a safe haven in the cryptosphere. So if there's a deleveraging and there's a liquidity flight, well, people are going to go to the safe asset and then you're going to have large amounts of capital move out of the crypto assets. And so this makes sense. The idea is that if we are going to have liquidity interest rates go down, we're going to have this asset class go from, let's call it we're at 3 trillion today. I'm not really sure if it shows it on this chart, we end up at the end of the cycle. I mean, Tim thinks we're going to end up at whatever 20. That's like whatever number that is like 20 plus trillion total. But let's just say we end up at 10 trillion from here. Bitcoin sits at well, I'm not going to do the math here, but like it's 62% now and we end up at 10 trillion bitcoins going to sit at like less than 50% of that is the is the is a directional bet. So we'll come up with the terms and we'll come back because you're going to I just. Don't I? I? I think what with that necessitates though is a meaningful bid for X Bitcoin assets, which like, I just don't necessarily see if like the the primary bid that we're going to see over the next 12 months is like corporate and and nation state level buying. They're not buying Ethereum. They're not buying XRP. Yeah, it's the first part of that. The second part is we have 24/7 global crypto markets. And as the price appreciates, it's the ultimate barometer for awareness, which will have traders come in and step in. And if they make a little money on BTC, that's a natural cycle into alts. And then people will look at alts because they have the unit bias and they'll just will go in and they won't understand all of this because this is at the like very edges of nuance and understanding like the market mechanics of where the liquidity goes. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with that line of thinking. Where I think the the difference might be is that. You just have to bet you don't you just like when somebody loses and somebody wins money because like that's, it's really that straightforward. So we got to call it out because this is what happens. Like if you want to bring up charts and just say it, you got to you now you got to pick Liam, you get to pick the amount of Sats and then Brian, you get to pick the date that we will look at the dominance. And then I guess what, what is it that, like I just said, dominance is going to lower right from here and Brian said it's going to go higher. So and we can look back at the So what are we at today? It's at like 62. OK. Is Michael, is that a short term call or long term, do you think that Bitcoin does just eat away at dominance forever? Yeah, I mean, long term, all the, I mean, Bitcoin eats everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not crazy. I just, it's just. But we'll come back to that because it's important to know who's right and who's wrong. Chase, I wanted to go back to something. Tim, I think you talked to Chase a lot. So you know this like I know you're the MSTR bull, but I think Chase might literally, I think he has an MSTR pillow. I think his newborn might be named Michael. I think there's some serious things going on there. I mean, he's literally ACEO of a Bitcoin treasury company with his plans to help Michael Saylor actually custody it the right way. So there's a lot that Chase is riding on in the treasury space. And so I'm curious, Brian earlier said something interesting about stables and sailor. And I know I've seen it like cursory, right? You flick through enough Twitter before you mine turns to motion. You see like something about, you know, becoming a bank and, and this notion of stables. And I've always been interested in like if you can differentiate by backing it with some BTC and all that. Like, do you think there's anything there? Have you thought about it? I know you have. So I'm kind of leading you, but curious like what you think about stables and and MSTR? That's to me. Or that's the. Both of us, you go first. Michael too. OK. Yeah, I'll, I'll start. Saylor has talked about stables before. Actually, his thesis is that Bitcoin is not a currency, it's digital capital. And so whether he actually believes that is one thing versus that is the position he's taking so that he can keep governments from squashing Bitcoin and getting them to believe that there are parallel paths for both to exist. That's another question. I tend to think that he would believe that long term, it does eventually become the medium of exchange as well. But I think he just, and he's kind of hinted at this before, that's basically like pick your battles. If you don't have to fight the government, then don't fight the government. That, that makes sense. I guess I was more curious of do you think he gets involved in stables from an issuer perspective like MSTR turns into a bank in that they have that that's where that's where I I thought you, yeah, that's where I was going with it. OK. I mean, they definitely seem to be positioning themselves as the Bitcoin bank. Some would argue that even the new logo is like just a middle logo on the way to being strategy bank. I could see that, you know, Saylor believes that capital, it's it's purpose is to be held and lent out to folks who want to use it to create productive, you know, assets in society. And he seems to be in the camp that banks are good so long as they stick to just storing and lending out capital in responsible ways. And so I think he he wants to be the Bitcoin bank, but I also do think that that could be a long way away. You got anything for us, Timbo? So on my phone I didn't I I don't see anything on my screen. So you probably see Timbo. Does it say anything else? Is it like Timbo slice or? It's just Timbo. It's Timbo. And then there's just a bright orange tie right next to it. OK, that's well, it's one brand, except for the bow part. Yeah, everything that Chase said, it's a continuation of stable coins can export the US dollar, bitcoins not competing with the US dollar, all of those themes, definitely. And I think what I picked up on from, you know, several conversations is that, you know, MSTR has iterated their way to this point and they'll continue to. So I don't think anything's off the table, but there's definitely a focus right now on just stacking Christine Palateral. Nice. Yeah. One other, one other thing just to note from Sailors presentation yesterday that some folks on on X picked up on and I kind of did a double take when I heard it live. And it was, you know, a quasi near term price prediction from Sailor, which you know he doesn't, he doesn't often do. But he brought up the the chart that shows the largest assets in the world. Bitcoin is currently 8th largest asset in the world and he said, you know, currently it's 8th. It'll be the largest asset in the world within the next 4 to 8 months. Got it. Liam, did you have anything on that? Because I think the OCC stuff would be relevant given we're talking about banks I. Mean, I'm interested in that too. I just Sailor has very repeatedly said you never sell your Bitcoin. And so I would be interested in like the mechanics of him actually doing something with the bank. Just given he has very, very repeatedly say he, he doesn't really want to do anything with his existing capital. So that would need to be all through new financing, which is also accretive to his Bitcoin strategy. I don't really see that in the near term unless he kind of changes his messaging a bit. I guess one last thing I'll add here is he's talked about how because Bitcoin is digital capital that it can be lent out in any amount to anyone anywhere in the world at a moment's notice and then, you know, returned back to you. So he I think he sees this future of like micro lending at at lightspeed anywhere in the world. Yeah. I think he's more likely to lend out his Bitcoin in order to get some additional Bitcoin yield on top of it. We we know that there are some some risks associated with that, but I know like on Safety Dean's podcast in the past, he's talked about that. It'll be interesting to see how he gets comfortable doing that. Yep, that makes sense. And actually, maybe before the OCC stuff, we can do some some breaking news with our buddy Tim announcing coming on as an advisor to Early Riders. I think Tim has to run at the top of the hour so we can chat a little bit about that. I think Tim, since we first started chatting, you've seen more and more about Bitcoin as a hurdle rate and more of this in the lexicon and the zeitgeist understanding the cost of capital. There is a cost of capital now and it's not the Fed funds rate, but it's the hardest asset known to man. So it's exciting to bring you on as an advisor to Early Riders and what Chase said referencing micro transaction and banking. There's going to be no shortage of businesses that are going to adopt Bitcoin on behalf of their treasury that are going to build net new businesses. And you've been establishing a platform with Bitcoin treasuries. You're seeing new entrepreneurs, existing entrepreneurs looking to break in this space. So super pumped to get you involved further in what we're building and curious what you if you have anything to share. Yeah. No, I'm very excited about the opportunity and is just you know that I've heard the coin wasn't her only that often, let alone a theme until I was introduced to early riders right the first ever been calling denominated venture firm and since I started bringing it up in conversations on panels now it's like Matt Cole and Vivek and like everybody and their brothers like Bitcoin is the hurdle like what we started this thing a few months ago as far as like maybe that narrative or I'm just right you drive a red car, you see all the red cars. I don't know. But yeah, now very we're obviously early. We don't need to spend a lot of time on that. But private companies? Public companies? I'm having conversations almost daily now with either CEOs, business owners, private companies that are all working with companies that want to at least understand what's going on and consider first buying Bitcoin for themselves and then considering putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet. It's obviously easier as a private company and then the public's. I think we're going to be slower than you would think, but not that far away. Yeah, either, yeah. And Chase, curious your thoughts here and open it to the group and Chase your closest to what we're doing as a portfolio company, but also talking with different companies. And I think that there's like 2 formats to bitcoins, the hurdle rate, there's the discussing it because it's a, it's a good, like, it's a, it's a good message, right? Like Bitcoin's a hurdle rate. You should benchmark against that. But then it's fundamentally different when you really think about like not only building to that, like returning more Bitcoin back to yourself as a business owner or your shareholders. Bitcoin, not like Bitcoin per share, but the actual underline how it affects your business decisions from an efficiency standpoint, because I think that's like what's implied in that is, OK, so bitcoins, your hurdle rate, you bring on Bitcoin as a capital, as a store value, shares go up. And then there's this like implied notion. And I think it's true or I know it's true that like over time that will be incepted into the mechanics of how the company's built and it'll make it more efficient. But from there to that point is more it's, it's been set as more theoretical versus what we're talking about is like in practice, what we build at on ramp, how Acropolis is being built, how actual companies bring the capital on. And they they're ultimately looking to deliver Bitcoin back from whether it's early riders back to LP's or Acropolis back to early riders from an investment perspective. So curious how you just think about it and how you seen it in the market. Because I think it's kind of conflated of it's a sexy thing to say Bitcoins, the horror rate, it's completely different. I joke and it's like saying I want a six pack and then go into the buffet, versus like saying I want to stick back and you have to do the hard thing and actually have to go to the gym and do the deal. And those are like fundamentally different things. And it's gonna take a while for the market to realize who's just saying it and then who's actually producing the results. Yeah, I guess my thoughts here is that I was before I found Bitcoin, I was kind of a believer in the lean startup methodology and fans, kind of a student of startups and a fan of things like Bezos making every new employee, you know, go find a door and build their own desk and, and these types of things to like try to instill cost of cost savings and efficiency right out of the gate. And, you know, you've seen the pictures of the Bezos in front of the Amazon sign, which is just like a little banner that he spray painted. And he was proud of that banner, right? Because it's showing that I, I didn't spend $1000 for some graphic banner on my wall. This is good enough. And I think that what that methodology kind of missed was that it didn't have a true opportunity cost. So it's like, OK, yeah, you're not spending too much money to build the business, but what is the actual opportunity cost? And I think with Bitcoin as a hurdle rate, it inherently lends itself to the lean startup methodology. But it also expressly states, you know, what the opportunity cost is with each incremental dollar. And so, yeah, I obviously I run my life that way before coming to Acropolis and, you know, tried to run my businesses that way as well. But to have a VC partner in early riders, that is like expressly giving me the green light to hold 100% of the business's capital in a Bitcoin treasury and to like weigh every growth decision against that, every hiring decision against that, It's it's incredibly aligning. Yeah, it's, it's a really good point around, you know, effectively it, it moves it away from being something theoretical in terms of like capital discipline and to, to something tangible where now obviously, you know, past performance is not indicative of future results. We can't predict the price of Bitcoin, but what we know about it from a monetary property perspective, we can have pretty good assurances that it's going to be sound money into the future, as it has been for its entire history. And so it, it gives you this, this anchor to tie to, to tether to. And so it's not just this theoretical game of, well, I'm saving money here by, you know, Bezos, not not making the sign. It's like, what, what are you doing with the money that you saved on that? Like that's still a question. And so in some sense, prior to Bitcoin existing, that that opportunity cost was always theoretical, because you could say, I'm going to go at invest in XYZ thing, it's going to produce XYZ return. And so it moves this, it moves it to a more of a, a tethered reality. And the other thing I'll mention is Vivek was a keynote speaker at the event yesterday and his whole speech was on this. It was completely about Bitcoin being the hurdle rate and and why that actually sort of catalyzes capital discipline. And you know, part of his theory too was like, in a world where interest rates are no longer 0, like you do need to think more critically about opportunity costs and hurdle rates. And, you know, to me it kind of it's, it's irrelevant what interest rates are in terms of Bitcoin being the hurdle rate. But that was part of his, his thesis was like, you know, we're, we're no longer in a, in a zerp era. So you have to think about this differently. I think that's partly true, but we're in a Bitcoin era now. And so you you have to think about the entire spectrum differently because that is the real opportunity cost. Yeah. I think what a lot of people miss is it goes back to the conviction that I think we all have in Bitcoin in the sense of if Bitcoin credibly enforces 21 million hard cap supply, then it ultimately wins his money. And if that's true, then ultimately Bitcoin being the hurdle rate is a, is a derivative of of that, meaning that everyone that investor capital will be benchmarking it against their own holdings because it makes zero sense to give up the Bitcoin if you're not going to get more Bitcoin in return, whether it's today at today's prices or if bitcoins nominal purchasing power increases at 3 to 5% on an annualized basis because of GDP growth, well, then you're going to need that in return. And so if that's true, then everything else that will be built will be based on that. And this goes back to like, we have different pieces to put together, but one of them is just like, well, what does investment look like in a Bitcoin standard? And ultimately, it means that more people are saving. More people saving means less people are spending frivolously. These are a lot of things that exist in the world today that shouldn't. Those people now have to go find real jobs that produce value, that lowers the cost of production for everything. That is like fundamental to society, which allows for more saving and then you put that saving back into credible things. And it's not to say the capital won't be destroyed because that's just how humans operate, but that's the basis of it. And anybody that says bitcoins, the hurdle rate, like won't tell you that. They'll tell you like bitcoins, the hurdle rate because it's going up and I gotta do this crazy shit. And like everyone screams about it. But there's like a fundamental basis of like this is how societal will run and operate. If that is the metric that they need to get returned, if they're going to relinquish that underlying asset. And then every decision point past that when you're a business owner has to be the same, similar thing to our personal balance sheets. It's like, well, why am I going to spend this unless it's obviously for like lifestyle reasons, but businesses are fundamentally different than, you know, your life. Yeah, absolutely. And to a certain extent, you kind of, you kind of have to, to live it. I think is part of what you're alluding to of, of it's, it's easy to talk about it. It's much harder to actually do it and implement, you know, grow a business on a Bitcoin standard. That's when you actually internalize what we mean by Bitcoin is the hurdle rate. And until you do that it it's, it's nice to say, but it's a very different operating in that mode. There's a lot of companies and and venture funds that have like deployed and burned capital, laid off folks. And you think about like if you raised, I don't know, $100 million and you go and look at the dollar, the amount of BTC like this is another piece we have to put together is like really the future metrics will not be how much dollars you raise. It'll be how much BTC you raise. And it's actually going to be the least amount of BTC you raise is, is the benefit less the more dollars you raise because the more dollars you raise is actually the more BTC you have to outperform. So raising 100 million bucks the past couple years means you like, let's call it 3000 or whatever number BTC Chase, you sound excited, you look excited. So I'll let you go. The second, the second part to that will translate to companies because it'll be less amount in the number of people you have. And we all know it's going to go back to less employees, but it's going to be more of amount of BTC per employee, like the amount of BTC revenue per employee. So there's just like fundamental things that are drastically going to change the landscape and that again, it goes back to the six pack. Like you could talk about it, but to actually do it is fundamentally different thing. And the only way you can do it is actually by actually doing it, like building the businesses in that way, because that's the hard part, is developing that process. Yeah. I just wanted to basically double tap that in the sense that you said you're not going to be looking at, we're not going to be celebrating like, oh so and so company raise a $2,000,000 seed round. What you're going to do is you're going to say, OK, well, if they had allocated to Bitcoin immediately, whether they did or not, maybe they raised from early riders and they actually raised in Bitcoin or what is the amount of Bitcoin that they could have acquired at that start date. Again, Bitcoin is the hurdle rate, right? Because if early riders invest in Acropolis and we have a certain amount of Bitcoin to start with, that is the hurdle rate because we need to hurdle above that before we can return capital to investors. So like Bitcoin is the hurdle rate all the way from the micro level to the macro level and for individuals and businesses. So it's just another way of thinking about Bitcoin is the hurdle rate is you have to return more capital than the Bitcoin that was allocated to you initially. Yeah. And that's by via enterprise value or dividends, right? Because you have like you basically have a call option on the equity value. There's a, there's a this is like a cosmic angle of all this. But the way I see this all is similar to like when you think about what makes Bitcoin work, it's because there's a token attributed and the incentive model across miners, nodes and participants are tied to that token. And and so like the most efficient energy sources are tied to help bitcoins leverage, right? Because you naturally want that token. And so you're going to go there in the same way that the only use case for a blockchain is to manage that token via, you know, consensus and all. What we're talking about here, it's very similar to like, like humanity, like how we'll all operate is the way society. Society will all like operate at the most efficient scale is once you have the token that has a finite supply. Yeah, I mean, we've never had that, right? We, we were pretty close with gold for thousands of years. But even that wasn't, wasn't perfect scarcity. And so I think that's part of the that's part of the learning that will occur over the next several decades, the appreciation of of absolute scarcity. I think you know the four of us on on this call are in the extreme minority of of even grasping what that that really means. And one last part like Chase, I think you'll appreciate it. I think Liam's heard this and Brian definitely has because he was at the dinner we were with a very prominent venture capitalist in the space and he was really enamored by on rant And I was like, you want to know something cooler is like we run the only Bitcoin denominated venture fund in the ecosystem. So tell me more and then so explain, you know, just like pretty simply like, well, if me and you start a business and we raise $1,000,000 or $100 million, we'll just build a more efficiently efficient business inherently, which means a Better Business with a million than 100 million. And then I was like, let's take a step back now let's play it back where we raise a million in USD or a million in BTC. Now think about how great of a business we run because it's really simple. And again, nobody can talk you through this unless they've done it. But it's like, well, me and you chase, we start a business, we raise a million BTC or dollars, we do it in dollars. Maybe you take that extra higher because 8:00 to 10:00, you want to spend some time with the family. But if you give up that BTC for the high, if you're holding a BTC give up that for the higher, well, now you've lost that purchasing power appreciation versus suck it up, figure out the SEO strategy, go on and that optimization. It's not to say you don't hire, but and if you do need a higher than you're ultimately going to find not only the best person, you're going to find the person that aligns with those ethos as well because that they want that token as well. So when they come in, they're looking for equity because if you're trying to get more of that token, then that asset, then they're going to come in and then it aligns at the highest peak who should be as part of your team because they're aligned with that. So they're going to be the best performer and get to it. It's like a beautiful system, and that's truly what, like Bitcoins, A hurdle rate, Yeah. Especially, especially if you're a Bitcoin only business, so you're attracting Bitcoin talent when they come on board, if they're getting equity, they don't want to drain the company's Bitcoin treasury as they come on because it's counterproductive, because they want to, they want to own points in a business that sits on that treasury for as long as possible. So they come in and they're like incredibly willing to work with you on compensation structure because there's an alignment in a way that you just don't see in other businesses. That's exactly right. And that's how you build the best businesses because you can't build a great business without great people and great people want to do great things. And like, it's the best heuristic when it comes to just that full alignment across the board. There's other anecdotes to share, but I know we've talked about this a lot, but yeah, it's a, it's super exciting because once you talk to the right people and they get it, they're like, holy crap, they have to be a part of it. So if you're ever interested in building on a Bitcoin standard or getting involved what we do, you should reach out. Absolutely. Well, anything else we want to cover? Liam, was there anything you want to mention around the the OCC news or or banks getting the green light to to enter the space? I mean, we can, we can continue to talk about this all day. You know, there are going to be a ton more banks that really want to put Bitcoin and and even stable coins. I think Bank of America talked about issuing their own stable coin. I don't think that they're going to outperform Tether, but we'll see. But yeah, they they're going to be more and more people that want to hold Bitcoin and broader crypto on their balance sheet. We'll see how they aim to do it. I think they're going to be very slow to to move. I think they have a lot of compliance boxes they need to check. But at the end of the day, I think they're just going to get a broader audience more comfortable with the asset as a whole. And we're going to continue to see adoption tick up just because they're they're just realistically a lot of people out there that are want pick one exposure but are too lazy to open up a new account. I personally think it's the most bullish. I'll let you go, Brian, but I think it's the most bullish thing for all of this independent of SVR, everything else. Just banks, banks being able to to enter the space and, and not having to worry about regulatory overhead or. Yeah, exactly. Simply because individuals, family offices and everyone in between that leverages a bank just wants to deal with their bank for financial access to assets. And yeah. It's a much, it's a much it, it lowers the friction of because the alternative right is you got to go find a crypto native firm and vet them and, you know, figure out how to partner with them or, or integrate their solutions. And so I think it just it greatly, greatly reduces that barrier in those frictions. The only other thing I want to mention on on the stables topic was, you know, if we didn't have enough signals already that the United States really wants to embrace stables to to sort of assert or continue to assert dollar dominance. Paolo, the CEO of Tether was at the conference yesterday. It's the first time he's ever been to the United States. And so I think it's pretty clear, like, you know, he feels comfortable enough with this administration to come to the United States for the first time. So I thought that that was an interesting signal as well. Well, he has his Uncle Lutnick there, so if he gets in jail or just bail him out, he'll be good. Yeah. I think there's inherent or implicit, not green light, but it's saying that this thing's not a scam or Ponzi, right? Like the administration being friendly has been. Anybody in this ecosystem has seen the past eight weeks has literally been like night and day from the interest from specifically like on the like closer to the regulatory bodies. When you think about Raas and have to deal with the SEC and then from the banks dealing with the OCC and other federal regulators. This shifting in tone from an administration is just like completely taken the wind out of, oh, then stick the stigma that this is a nuclear asset or radioactive asset and all that. And so then once a bank offers it, it's like one part friction, but it's honestly in my mind, one part like a blessing from their financial institution that this is OK. And I met with one yesterday. And it's interesting because it's going to happen in the same way. They were like they're, they're super sophisticated for a bank. Like they've been talking to the regulators. They've been trying to get in for a while, five years, really sharp guys. And we talked about this earlier today, Brian, like in Chase, you probably feel this as well. There's like a barbell when it comes to understanding what we're talking about here in multi institution, specifically multi institution custody. If you're kind of like net new to the space, it's like, well, that that's inherently like seems safer 3 institution safeguard in the asset. And then on the other side of that, when you're outside, you've gone through the fire and you're on the other side and you're what you would think of sophisticated because you're still involved and you haven't been burned. You're like, oh, wait, this is how it all goes, right? It's that middle crowd. That's where you kind of fall into the the trap of like, oh, it's OK, just single party custody and all the things. And this these guys were on the other end of it. They've seen it, they've seen the risk. All they're thinking about is risk, right? And they were just so ecstatic that they had stayed close to this asset for all these years to understand where the traps are, to understand what they need to build because they are all about trust. Like they, the second they lose it, they lose their whole bank. And so it was a great conversation, really great. But point being, is this similar with Rias, right? They're all private businesses. They're all looking to attract capital, attract AUM. It's going to be a land grab. It's an insane opportunity from Ras to banks to very similar kind of cohorts. And like they're trying to attract capital and differentiate. But the other side of that, the bearish sad part is a lot of these people are caught or have been caught flat footed and they will continue to be because they just thought this was all a Ponzi and they never had to worry about it. And and I was telling about 1:50, right? Just like to call it a double from here, they're all just going to make a bunch of mistakes because now they're just going to be banging down the door from their shareholders, from their clients. And that's how you end up with all these crazy like Frankenstein setups. And that's when you end up with another deleveraging because you're offering yield and all this crap. So it's bullish and bearish at the same time because it's just a steep learning curve. But yeah, just wanted. To share that it's a good point on the getting caught flat footed, like I think you could make a parallel to, you know, how there was obviously other factors, but like the what you would think of as sophisticated investment firms and allocators who aped into FTX, right? Because they, they felt like they needed to do something in the sort of early innings of that bull run. And so they didn't really do any diligence or if they did, it was cursory at best. And so I think you'll see, you'll see different flavors of that this time around. To your point, for those late movers who are going to move quickly, but likely too quickly to to actually think about it critically. Yeah, this is how you, this is how you see MIC as a standard basically because you get one more cycle and then you get a thing, a bunch of things blow up and you get regulatory consumer protection in place because you can't have a single party custodian. That's a black box custody it. Sorry, Leah. No, I was just going to say the last thing on on the banks being able to custody is like this is going to be a massive catalyst for corporate adoption of Bitcoin. Corporates that have been around for hundreds of years have had relationships with their same JP Morgan's. They've done all their due diligence making sure their processes are correct and they've just been really comfortable with them. So when they start to offer Bitcoin, it's going to be a natural relationship rather than trying to build a whole new relationship with a different financial partner. So I think we're going to see not just individual but also corporate adoption, maybe even accelerate faster than individual adoption in terms of percentage basis. Yeah. And maybe I would just chime in and kind of second what Michael's stance was that perhaps this is even more bullish than the SBR. And the reason I would agree is that banks being able to custody Bitcoin is the starting, you know, down the path towards lending and borrowing, which means borrowing against your Bitcoin at low enough rates that nobody ever has to sell their Bitcoin again. And if the value of Bitcoin is its scarcity, well, the SPR creates demand for Bitcoin. But if we can literally, you know, improve the scarcity aspects of Bitcoin to the point where nobody is ever even selling anymore, that's more bullish than nation state adoption. Yeah. You know what that just reminds me of? Is anybody that's ever like talked to or dealt with like wealthy people in this space or just in life, they don't want to ever catch a falling knife. They're happy to see the asset fall and then catch it back on the upswing. And I think of Coinbase or a digital native firm is their version of catching a falling knife in the larger picture, right? If it's a family office and somebody's worth and personally can be worth 10 million plus family office, 10 to, you know, a billion, whatever the number is, they're not thinking about this outside of three to 5%, if that. And so that version of catching a fallen knife on a third party custodian that goes to 0, it's like a gnat. It's like, why would I want to deal with put myself in that position? But if it's their bank, then it's like, well, this isn't me catching a fallen knife. This is like the market has priced in that this is not going away. I'm not going to jail for it. They're not going to ban it. And now I can just get my 5% exposure. And we all know that's the journey down, like, you know, material exposure. But I think that's a big embedded component to this is most people aren't like us just trying to, like, preserve our wealth so we can buy a house. And all the things that millennials have just had to deal with because of the debasement of currency, like they're kind of OK. They don't feel it in the same way. Yeah, 100%. Also boys. Before, before we jump, Ryan, we got a part of this was just, I wanted to hear kind of like Chase, anything you want to share? I know there's been an insane amount of traction and interest across the board from companies. So would love to just hear from like the multinationals and what they're been interested in the smaller companies and just like kind of an update if you want to share. Yeah, sure. So we're seeing a lot of interest from folks in the commodity world, so whether they're dealing in oil, gas, minerals, royalties on any of those gold. So we're really excited about the fact that we're positioned in Austin, TX as our headquarters because it does seem like that was really smart looking back on it based on all the interests we're seeing in the commodity space, commodity type businesses. They seem to really be rocking this asset class and the urgency around acquiring it for their treasuries better than most other businesses. And then we're also, you know, I, I kind of called this when I first came on board, but I'm pleasantly surprised to see that it's, you know, been the case. We're seeing a lot of interest in capital markets activity for companies that really do want to either borrow against existing assets, buy Bitcoin and then borrow against it, you know, raise equity rounds of capital to buy Bitcoin. So we are definitely going to be ramping up the capital markets activity over the next 6 to 12 months. We're bringing on some really excellent folks to the team to do exactly that. And yeah, what I'm excited about as somebody that's running the business at Acropolis like this is not for to the benefit of our all the clients so much as to the benefit of Acropolis is that as we attract AUM into our multi institution custody set up, we can actually then go help grow that AUM through the capital markets activities and actually take transaction fees on that as well. So it's a really exciting time at Acropolis for the business. And then yeah, we're we're just seeing more and more conversations with higher and higher quality businesses. Yeah. The thing I'm most excited about and curious how you think about it is just this notion that like the only thing really scarce are obviously time than Bitcoin is really like the human capital that's done the work. And that merging of capital markets understanding of Bitcoin and being able. And this is like kind of how or I think it's all of our thesis is about like Wall Street and how they're inevitably not going to make it outside of this because it's just a different asset has to be treated in a different way. How you guys can step in to really provide that, you know, outsource Bitcoin strategy officer to support whether it's from like external comms to internal comms, right? Because you still have to drive the consensus all the way to how do you think about accretive financing or just like literally the most simplest form of like how you educate about custody and where the trade-offs going to be. So just curious like how that's been going and anything on that lens you want to share? Yeah. And we kind of refer to this all as air cover as a service. So one thing that's been really interesting to see is how a single orange pilled executive at the company will kind of set the the consultation with Acropolis. He'll bring on either higher ups or other team members that, you know, he needs to build consensus with on the Bitcoin treasury strategy. And the call literally starts with, hey, this is Acropolis. Acropolis, I'm bringing you guys in because I'm the crazy Bitcoiner here here, and I want them to know that other serious people, you know, believe in this strategy, and that's actually how a lot of times the conversation starts. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting from the micro example of us and our family all the way to corporates and probably even sovereigns, right? It just requires some other crazy people to help tell the story to drive validation. How you build consensus chase? Where can people find out more, or who should they reach out to if they want to learn more about Acropolis? Well, definitely go to acropolistreasury.com and you can book a consultation with us there. If you want to find me, it's at Chase Palmieri on Twitter. Yeah. Or e-mail me to Chase at acropolistreasury.com. Happy to speak to any business of any size, whether you're planning on allocating a Bitcoin today or next year. Happy to start building that relationship. Awesome. Well, it might be a good place to to marketplace. Thanks for thanks for chat. It's a great one later, guys. Thanks. Thanks. See you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that Onramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private client advisors.
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