The Last Trade E002: Gold, bitcoin, and the Fed with Larry Lepard

Hoover gentlemen, Larry, welcome back. Episode 2 of The Last trade. It's good to be back. It's good to be here and we're thank you. Nice to be with you guys. It's always an honor. You guys are the core of Bitcoin. Oh, stop. That is that is too much that's too much. We're all in this together, that's for sure. And we're we've got a lot going on right now. We've had a bit of breaking news Larry. I think this is the first time you're going to see this video. It happened about an hour ago. I think we start here as a jumping off point. And because it's extremely emblematic of the state of our country weak leadership in chaos. And so, we're going to go to the Air Force Academy graduation If Logan can figure it out here, There we go. Sad. You never like to see the president of the United States. Falling like this and in an extremely weak position. He's old. He's feeble seems to be losing his mind, a bit, again, it's emblematic, of the state of our country. The fact that he was able to get the office. And now they plan on running him again and the face of everything going on with the debt ceiling, the banking crisis and not only, are they going to run? Again, they're going to run. They're gonna try to at least the DNC is without any competition with no primaries. No debates, nothing like that, Larry, you're the Elder Statesman on the show today. Have you ever seen anything this crazy at the presidential level? I mean, it's sad. I feel sorry for the guy feel sorry for the country. I mean, it's, you know, we were an empire in late-stage Decline and, you know, it's this is one of many symbols of it. Just a small, just a small Brick in the Wall of watching this thing, come unglued, right? And it's really sad. But I'm very happy and very encouraged because there are a lot of young guys. Like you carrying Spears ready to charge the Citadel and put a stake in the heart of Fiat, which is absolutely what has to happen. I've I've been fighting this battle for 30 years and I was alone and it's like I got the reinforcement showed up, right? You guys are the reinforcements. So as a, as a senior guy in the, in the space, I can say I couldn't be happier and more honored to have young. Ian's like all you three and, you know, so many others. You know, Odell mahler's, it's the list just goes on and on fighting this battle. It's great, it's just great. Well, Larry not to put you on the spot but that is a very soft money physique, you know? You we connected. I was go back to the 2021 Miami dinner and you know the conversations and your story and one of the things I remember you telling me is how you got into CrossFit and that you needed, you know, as we win you need to be around and in good shape. To outlast all these guys and I've been seeing you on Twitter, your incredible shape, two years in your out there leading, the charge in Miami, what's going on there? Well, you know, look, it's I read a book called younger, let younger next year years ago in my 50s and you guys, I don't think any of your even approaching 50. I'm not sure you guys were 40 yet when we examine tell you, one thing is going to happen. When you get to be 50, you're going to start to notice that your physical condition. Just isn't what it used to be. I mean, you can kind of fake it in your 20s and 30s, come back fast. Cetera, Etc. I'd already solved. The drinking Prime haven't drank for 30 years. So that was a that issue, but I was starting to get weak. And, you know, I was in a battle for some money life. From 2011, to 2015, I watched about half of my net worth go away and it had already taken pretty substantial hit when they changed the rules on Short Selling Financial stocks, which I was loaded to the gills on in 2008 and that was what radicalized me for sound money. You know, the assholes on the other side, change the rules as necessary to keep their Just am alive and I realized that you know, at the time I thought shit maybe we're going to lose. Well no I know we're on the right side of righteousness and Justice and I know that ultimately those things Prevail because I'm spiritual and I really believe in a higher power taking us to the right place and so I thought all right if that's going to happen I got to be here to see it as I don't want to miss the conclusion and so I started studying how do you live long and part of living long I think is being in good physical shape. So I researched that and came to the conclusion that the Navy Seals who are big part of the CrossFit tradition or kind of the guys who are the ultimate of physical shape. And so I thought, all right, it's going to hurt but that's what I got to do. And so I went to CrossFit gym, I was very out of shape, probably weighed 30 pounds more than I do now and I said, can you get a good old guy like me into shape? And I said, absolutely the only got to do is you got to keep walking through the fucking door, you know, just and do what you can. And so, I just started walking through the fucking door every day and I'm really not in very good shape there. A lot of Guys, my age are much, much better shape than me. I see him all the time at the gym and I'm humbled by them, but I show up and consistently all the time. And that's really what it's all about. Right there are things we can't control in this world but what we can control is our own personal attitude and our own personal desire to show up and fight for what we believe is. Right? And so, you know, to me, physically strong, as mentally, strong and mentally strong will lead you to the right conclusions about what's broken. Particularly is Marty so adequately coined. The phrase from brilliantly coined, the phrase, fix the money, fix the world. You know, we've got to fix the money. Yeah, you know, the physical piece is just so I'm here to see the conclusion because I don't want to miss it. I want to see. I want to see these Fiat assholes defeated, and we will, but, you know, could take a little time, right? So that's how I know that's how I got here. And I, as I again, I say I really you guys say, you're in great shape. I'm like, no, I'm not, but I'm in better shape than a lot of guys my age. And I think that increases the likelihood that I'll be here to see the end game, which is really, that's really my goal to see the endgame terms of like timeline. How long is it going to take to see that end game? I think that's a lot about what we're going to talk. Happy to talk about that. A lot of you have a lot of views on that so we can cover that. Yeah I mean what's in the news this week we have the debt ceiling. What was an impasse this time last week seems to be coming too. Conclusion, which is what has been the norm for the last decade, which is all right. We're going to raise the debt ceiling. There's some new wants to the mechanics of this ceiling raised. I guess we'll call it. The ceiling doesn't really exist, it's a mirage. It's Yoona party system. That's going to push the limit up, no matter what, because they have to due to the nature of the Fiat crisis, that we have been subjected to, but this one is particularly interesting because they raised the lid. In there currently is no limit in the re-approach to subject to begin to get 2025 which at that point will be a lame duck session because we'll have the election in. 2024 will have a lame duck between 2024 fall 2024 and February 20, 25 after which point all the committee's need to get put in place. And so in reality, the debt ceiling probably won't be approached again until what late 2026, Jessie. I see you shaking right now. Make it a couple of years. I mean, by my estimates were running about a two trillion dollar, annual deficit, perhaps more. I think it's going to be more but if we're at two trillion now and it's certainly not going down in the next few years that easily gets us to 35 trillion of debt. And I retweeted something this morning about how all that debt is stacked into the coast of the nearby maturities. And so, you know, as a result, they just got to roll over large, large amounts of debt. That's going to be a real problem for them. And yeah, it's interesting to me that they didn't Even put a cap on it, they just said, it's open-ended until early 2025. I mean, the way things are going, it could be thirty, five, six, seven, eight, you know, trillion dollars of debt, by that time. And they'll probably try and kick it a few more years beyond that. I don't know if they'll make it that far. I mean, it's, it's open. Its open-ended to me as to when this whole thing ends and when we get hyper Bitcoin ization. But I feel like that is coming and with every swing we get closer to it, right? Yep. I think we are currently on track for 2.2 trillion in deficit this year and if tax receipts our more I saw projection for up to two point nine trillion in deficit for 2023. Wow. Yeah. And yeah so they can quickly get 24 trillion more in national debt and and that that's not going to take us very long to get there. That's going to take us at that rate that's less than two years. ears to add four trillion dollars which is, which is more than 10% to our national debt and yeah and then the interest expense is this other like ticking time bomb that sneaking in where it's currently at 700 or maybe 800 billion dollars a year in interest expense right now if interest rates stay flat and these maturities rollover, the current interest expense interest rate, which is 5 plus percent then Talking about adding another 800 billion dollars in interest expense on top of what we're currently spending, which is the whole budget for for the military. And that's going to come out of where like that comes out of more deficit. So it's just a nightmare in slow motion right now. And that for the this, this lifting, the debt ceiling, which is this, you know, this battle between left and right, and both sides are taking real serious. Swings at the other side and demanding concessions only to have what happened. We're just going to add as much debt as we want because and and not even admit how much debt were rubber-stamping because instead of saying this will add four trillion dollars of debt over the next two years when we then Kick the Can further down the road. Again instead of that, we're saying we're lifting we're suspending. The debt ceiling rather than actually introducing that number. Which People should be aware of and should be mad as hell about. Yeah, it's a doom loop. I mean and it's this is not something new. It's happened before, in many other countries hasn't happened in the reserve currency since the Roman Empire fell when, you know, their currency was ostensibly the reserve currency at the time. And but this has happened in, you know, Venezuela Argentina Brazil, Weimar, Germany, Zimbabwe van on and on. And so, you know, when you have to print money to cover your interest and principal payments, it's not long until your currency ultimately fails. And by not long, I mean, maybe at the outside 10 years and maybe at the inside a couple of years, it's interesting because we've got social media. So, thanks things. Go faster. Now, right? I mean, I was stunned, the Silicon Valley Bank, which was my bag because Boston private have been bought by them at 42 billion dollars of withdrawals in one day and then the following day, a hundred billion showed up so with the click of a mouse billions of dollars move and so when it becomes obvious to everybody that you know the currency is failing. You know, it is truly having ways slowly and then all at once. And so that's that's what we're looking at yet. We don't know the slope of that curve and they have they have more moves in their bag of tricks. No doubt, we have to assume that. I mean, these people are smart and evil and so they will find ways to extend the privilege as long as they possibly can. We know that I saw that? I learned that the hard way in 2008, so, you know, we have to be prepared for the counter moves. But inexorably It's moving in our Direction and I take great comfort in that and I have a question here for that Larry. So when does the bond market wise up? You know, that there's three hundred trillion dollars sitting in in debt instruments that are going to deliver - we talked with Dylan Leclair last week about how the math points to - real returns for bonds over the coming decade. And they don't need to be sitting in bonds. They Be reallocating to an asset that has increasing scarcity and can deliver reliable returns because of that, it's a great question. That's really the big unknown, right? I mean, some of those, you know, some of the bond markets artificial, they paint the tape in the bottom Market, just like, they painted everywhere else, they have backdoor ways of buying and supporting it. You know, I think frankly the bond market is wising up. I mean, if you look at Luke slip Grauman's charts, he's got great charts that show how Holdings of US government treasuries have been decreasing Steadily throughout the world. And you know the old form of sound money. Gold has been increasing you know Holdings of those by governments have been increasing throughout the world. So the bond market is wising up but you know to be fair it's been slow. We haven't hit the suddenly and all at once point and that's in my opinion, that's a future. But the market that it'll get the message. I mean right now actually, you know, there's an argument that maybe even though the Britain numbers just printed very high, I think the u.s. might Looking at some lower numbers sometime relatively soon in which case they'll be able to say, hey, look, we've beat inflation. And now we can go back to QE, but they've got a really big problem. I mean, you just when you look at the Cliff of everything that's going to mature, you look at the deficits that were running and you look at the QT that they're taking their selling bonds into the market. I mean this is a this is a big train wreck coming I think sooner rather than later. I'm glad to yeah. I think You can make the case, there's a few things that touch on here, one that we're in the eye of the storm, right? Because we had Silicon, Valley Bank First Republic, signature, that whole, domino effect happened. A couple of months ago, things have cooled off quite a bit but we're in the middle of Q 2. Here will be done at the end of this month and then we'll get you to financials and the July throughout August and is that when the suddenly part begins, when people become well, aware of the fact that deposits have been leaving. A lot of the regional Banks over the course of the last two months and through this month and the market only becomes aware of the gravity of that situation when the financials are released correct. Under July early, August call this rivets popping, you know, and the original paper type was a rivet and you know, then I don't have been several. They've been a number of rivets that have popped up in Silicon Valley Bank. And First Republic was a rivet, they put it back together but they're more rivets coming. And you know, they keep putting fingers in the holes in the dike but they're going to run out of fingers in the holes are going to come more quickly. So you know, we can see it very clearly some of us and know that it's coming, but that, you know, we got to wait for each step to unfold. Yeah, and that's another two other things I wanted to mention. It seems like the treasury knows it's coming as well. They announced earlier this year that they're going to open up the buyback program for treasuries and 20-24, which means they're signaling that there's gonna Lack of demand that they're going to have to step in and soak up. And then number two, you look at the treasury's current account which is draining, I believe we have a chart in the show notes, that shows that it is at thirty seven point four billion right now. And before the FED started raising rates was around 400 billion. So the the current account is getting drained rather quickly in that country. A it pretty bad, crazy crisis. And we haven't really gotten to the point where the economy hits the wall. I mean, you're seeing signs. It's hitting the wall in private equity and the banks and some of the some of the numbers. But you know, and the average household is addressing the shortfall in that between their income and their costs by taking out credit card debt. But that's very expensive debt. And eventually people are going to realize that, you know, we're not going back to New all-time highs in the market, the stock market. And, you know, people are going to start losing. Jobs. And so, you know, in the last couple of recessions, I mean, the the tax receipts went down, you know, 10 15 percent easily and also a downturn triggers, you know, food stamps, and a lot of the social spending has to go up in those downturns. So, you know, we could very easily at the peak of covid, we were four trillion dollar deficit, you know, as you mentioned earlier, we could be as high as 29 this year and this year ends in September, by the way. So we're only only one more quarter to go. You know, I think next year could be you know, easily over 229, maybe maybe the three three and a half range. And so, you know, this they're playing with fire here and it, you know, to me it, I've used the analogy. They've got a clown car between the driving, the guardrails are massive inflation. Massive deflation, certainly hit the massive inflation, one pretty well in 20 and 21, you know, they slammed on the brakes and we're now headed towards the massive deflation and they seem pretty intent. I thought it was Testing today though, did you guys see that tomorrow's the FED? Whisper came out and said, well we may pause just for one meeting and then we'll come back at it if we need to and he seems to be relatively well, clued into what they're thinking and doing so even though the CME, Futures are saying there's a 60 plus percent chance of another 25 bits. In the June meeting, I think it's entirely possible, they pause and my sense is that's going to ignite a fire underneath Bitcoin and gold and silver as well. So we'll have to see. I mean they they certainly know That there's an issue coming. We know that. I know it from personal experience, knowing Bankers, several members of my family extended family work in the banking business and pretty much been told to just stop making loans, you know? Make sure everything sound batten down the hatches, you know, they can see what's coming. I mean, there's going to be this is going to be a mess, a big mess, you know, and we got an echo bubble right now and Nvidia and Ai and to me that's just that's just the most recent narrative. But that To will fade. It reminds me very much of 2000. Actually, you know, it's funny, I was short stocks in the top of 2000. I was actually a venture capitalist and trying to sell everything that wasn't nailed down and March 2000. A lot of the really high flyer started to Peak and drop, but the Cisco's hung in there in the Microsoft and all the big names hung in there, but late 2000 2021. It really started to come unglued. So there's a lag, you know, in the monetary policy effect on the underlying economy, and my son Sense is that lag will hit us hard late this year or early next year and we'll be looking at an entirely different set of problems. And the FED is political, I mean, they react to the biggest problem of the day, the biggest part of the day was inflation, you know, I could see very easily, where the biggest problem the day is going to become, you know, the punk economy unemployment, Etc, right? Yeah. And that's actually another chart we have in the show Notes, The Living Large chart Logan, which highlights that maybe that lagging indicators beginning to creep. And when you take out the mega cap, the apples, Microsoft's Amazon's Nvidia is from the SP. The rest of the index is performing Pretty Pretty poorly down more than 5% this year. I mean it's there's nothing good happening in this economy. In my opinion, it's it's hanging on because there's a lot of free money out there sloshing around but that's that's being taken away and, you know, and it's hidden this time and the housing bust. It was very Visible in the banks are very busy people and everybody's house in their housing value. And so it happened quickly and very aggressively. A lot of the losses. This time they're hitting their in commercial real estate, which is in the regional Banks during private Equity, there in venture capital. I mean, you know, there must be Venture Capital marks that are just way, way way overstated. And, you know, I think the private equity and Venture Capital Market is 16 trillion dollars. And as those marks start to get Mark to Market, you know, people are going to realize they're not as rich as they think they are. And you know, I think it's just a matter of time until you know, these things are things start performing better than the Alternatives which is to say the stock market and, you know, then and will be in the all at once part, you know, soon thereafter. So, I'm extremely bullish on what we've got for the next two years. I must admit this is, you know, I've been surprised at how long they've been able to fake out the market and keep things together, you know, since they started the tightening in February. Logan, he pulled the the, the UK chart because I think that kind of ties into a little bit Willer. Has talked about earlier came out that for inflation for food and non-alcoholic beverages twenty percent for the year and they're discussing voluntary price controls. So Coco voluntary from the you know LOL. Wow, look at that. I didn't I haven't seen that chart Yeah, for a central is there for anybody is listening at home were looking at the UK annual inflation rate for food and non-alcoholic beverages, which is skyrocketed to 19.1%. And I mean, inflation is cooling down here a bit, but it is not isolated to the in the cooling down. Is not isolated to the u.s., obviously, in other parts of the world, like, the UK, it's running rampant, and in this highly interconnected Global Financial. System even if we can somewhat get our house in order here. There are externalities that exist abroad that could really throw a wrench in the feds plan overall. Yeah, great. I would say a bit because if you look I don't think we're that far from that 19 percent here in the United States. I think it came out this week. Like Costco basically said that they've had, there's been a decline in beef purchases and there's there, you know, basically taking up majority of shelf space with like pork and chicken. So I think it's and then you talked about the credit card debt as well. I think that we're not too far from from that number. There you go. Well, we all know that cook the numbers when part of what makes this house of mirrors, so hard to operate in is no. But you can't trust anything, right? I mean, they make up numbers that suit them. I mean the employment and employment numbers, the Joel's numbers. I mean, it's it's it's you know, we really are operating in a house of mirrors. And, you know, the powers that be are doing everything they can to hold it all together. Run, you know my response to that is good luck. Yeah, I think by the by the shadow shadow stats is a wishy-washy effort to show what the calculation formula for CPI from 1980 was and like what inflate would be using that version of the formula, which is the original version of the formula and it peaked at like 17% and it's down to 12 percent, right? Now, you know, which is 10% higher than what we're being told or almost 10% higher than what we're being told. The cost of Our Lives is increasing every year. You can't trust those numbers at all none. I've actually been doing a quarterly monetary base update with Matthew missus anxious and he he believes that John Williams who Operates the shadow stats to stop like putting in as much effort and so he recommends the chap would index which we have here. And this chap would index it reflects the true cost of living increase in America by major city. So New York average walk right now is 13 .45 La 13.5 Chicago 13.2 Houston, 10.1 Philly 11.25. Yeah, so all above 10% San Jose sitting Fourteen point one. So if chap what I believe just takes a basket of everyday Goods that Americans actually buy in need food, groceries, gas, rent, it does beg the question of why anyone would hold any bond, you know, it denominator you have any of the furtive. It's hard to make any money, any real return in anything, you know, the S&P, you're hoping for 79 percent annualized. But that's Inflation right there, right. Yeah, and that gets into the question. I mean, I know you've covered this a lot in. This is your wheelhouse, which is gold and how that acts, as sort of a leading indicator for Bitcoin, but also reacting indicator to what's going on here. And I saw Lynn Alden was tweeting. Earlier today on average gold tend to outperform stocks and two years after yield curtain version and she has a nice chart there on the basically highlights Where We Are. Yeah. I mean gold gold is more widely distributed than Bitcoin Bitcoin as you know and you know as you know I believe that coin is far superior to Gold but gold is just less volatile Bitcoin you know gold is analog sound Money's been around forever and more people own it. The coin is digital sound. Money has got two things going on, the debasement of the currency and the adoption. Of course, it's a much better bet than gold but obviously the drawdown is can freak out older people like myself. So My clients aren't used to 70% draw down. So I do both Larry to say that Larry. Did you hear how Bill Miller characterized Bitcoin versus gold came out of the show, but I didn't see his speech specifically. What did he say? He said, gold is just an inferior Bitcoin. That was his exact quote. Yeah. He's right. I mean, he's right. I mean, it's, but it's not, it's not. Away tomorrow. I mean there's the Lindy effect of gold, you know, 68 million people know that gold has value sadly. You know, it's a subset of that that understand the Bitcoin has value. Yeah. Like to think that Bitcoin is just gold. That can fly. Well, that's right. Yeah, we will, it's called with better characteristics. I mean, it's Superior in every, in every way shape and form, but it hasn't been as widely adopted. And, you know, if I were 30 years old, I'd be honored percent Bitcoin but I'm not, you know? I'm about to turn 66. So, my personal PA is half gold, half Bitcoin, and that gets into question, like, with all this going on with the macro backdrop that ceiling fed. Pause on the horizon. How do we Get the message of Bitcoin as a superior asset in the wake of all these crazy Bond markets, equities Market. That looks like it's about to turn over and Bitcoin. Just sitting here Larry. What in your opinion what is the message that we didn't alter to people? It's number go up, its user, go up its use cases, go up and all of those things are happening. I mean recall that the bottom is 15000 Stout twenty seven or eight so it's beating gold this year. These cases are fabulous. I mean look at Nigerian and all the countries around the world, all the people that are adopting it, I think it's just overcoming the fud associated with it and you know, to me, it's inevitable that it's going to happen as a fixed Supply, right? Yeah. I'd like to go ahead and ask what are you seeing in the market? Like as far as I guess there's two parts, there's the folks that have been in the gold space sound money, space has the conversation or the narrative changed around an allocation a small allocation of Bitcoin and what you know? Hell yeah, some of the exposure. Yeah. Oh yeah. No. I've always built a ton of gold bugs affect those kind of see that as my role in this whole movement and I think you know, because I Speak it gold shows still and I always put in a plug for Bitcoin and I think you guys, I think I told you this all you all know this but maybe some of the listeners don't when I go to a gold conference, I speak one of the questions I always ask is how many people in this room on bitcoin to and I would say it's generally been over half a hands and growing. So you know, gold people are naturally disposed to understand the monetary debasement argument. That's why they're there and you know, the, you know you must understand that. Their point of view. Some of them are like well Bitcoin is crypto and kryptos embankment free. And I'm not touching that shit. And you know, if they haven't taken the time to do the work and Digby on the bullshit, you know, you can see how they cursorily come to that conclusion and what I try to point out to them is that Bitcoin is, in Bitcoin is not so embankment Freda crypto, it's Bitcoin, cryptos, old bullshit. And what Bitcoin is is, it's an incredible technological, innovation that completely changes the game, never Before in history, have we had an asset a commodity asset with a fixed Supply. This is the only asset in the world. Where if the price went up 10x the supply, wouldn't change. Price of gold goes up, 10 x, we're going to mine a lot more gold price of oil. Goes up to X. We're going to drill for more oil, then matter what happens, the price of Bitcoin there and more of it. And so, so as long as the dogs, keep eating the food, as long as the use cases grow. When I often, like to say, forget about number go up. I just want used to go up if you Goes up, number will go up to and you know I actually do think. I mean I know they're people say well Bitcoin can't be manipulated. I actually think Bitcoin is to a somewhat to some degree being manipulated. I think there are derivatives around Bitcoin that are starting to be a factor. I think the people who are shorted are going to be run over but I do think that, you know, I mean as an example I heard a pretty interesting theory that the last cycle was truncated. You know, we went to 68, we should have gone to 150. Reason we didn't go to 150, is that the Chinese Bandit? And therefore, all those Chinese miners were forced to selling the coins, they were houghtaling and so there was a ton of Supply that came on the market. And that's what truncated that run. That sounds logical to me. Is what it sounds even even more logical. That's concrete is, you know, FTX and blocked by. There's a lot of people short Bitcoin right now that thought they were holding. Whatever the number is 50. It's you guys that's exactly right. There was a lot of I mean didn't he claimed to have 1.6 billion dollars a Bitcoin he had zero? I mean it you know so Had six million dollars worth six million? Yeah, it's almost and Larry the, the math on that suggests, that just from ft x alone, the amount of paper Bitcoin, there amounted to 25% of all the Bitcoin mind in the prior year. So I, you know, if you're if you're creating those that pay per Bitcoin, you're adding quote unquote, adding Supply Corral when it's not actually that somebody thinks they own a Bitcoin, they don't they didn't go into the market to buy it. I mean that's the game they've been playing with gold since forever. You know there's a lot of paper gold and and and look the Fiat guys know that controlling the price of these two things is essential to their survival. Absolutely essential. So I think we're being naive if we don't think that they you know it hit their radar screen when it went to when it did. It's five to ten thousand range and want to you know 50 60 and 120 one and early 22. The alarm Bells going off in every Central Bank in the world and they all said, holy shit. We got a real problem here. Let's talk about that. It's a what is the Peter teal? Quote, the Bitcoins, the last fire alarm that exists? It came out. It came out today or yesterday that Canada like for the major exchanges left Canada because of some of the requirements after FTX. I think the last one is crackin. And so you like extrapolate like Capital controls and something, you've always talked about that's passing Because it makes sense, as long as you're not naive. Is that based on what happened in 08 and have been previously, they're smart or clever and they're going to, you know, hit everyone at the knees when they're least expected at. And so what does that look like when the price starts running away? When alternative asset start, you know, taking whatever percentage from bonds from the dollar and it feels like directionally. I don't have it figured out. I'm curious if you have or anybody's like, where does the like, you know, quote cvtc or programmable money? That you can't move but you need to live and how does that tie into the flows to be able to, you know, kind of just hinder the ability to get into an asset like that? Well, I think there's like, there's a play there. Yeah. Operation choke point was an obvious attempt at slowing down adoption and, you know, a blatant form of financial repression. And we know how they ran all that. I mean, we just stopped, the Bitcoin opportunity. Find it was incredibly hard. We actually had to go to Canada to find a bank. That was willing to Bank. A fun just because so many of the banks in the US have been down on it. We've had people trying to transfer money to us and their Bank saying, oh if it's Bitcoin related, we won't do it. I mean, the pressure to kill this stuff is huge. I mean, you saw, you know, Caitlyn being denied her banking permit as a result of Elizabeth Warren's, you know, leaning on the White House and and, and shutting them down. I mean, look, the other side is fighting back. Let's not kid ourselves, and they probably have other weapons in their, in their Arsenal. I mean, I, you know, I've often thought that they might try to require for tax reasons. They might remember, we don't have to check the box in the US and say you're doing in crypto which means you're much more likely to be audited. I think it's probably only a matter of time before they say you know you've got to tell us what your address is are and how many coins you've got, you know? I mean if you guys are old enough to remember it but I have money in Switzerland, Swiss bank accounts and I have I've had to file a report every year for the last 20 years with the, with a group in Detroit, that's part of the US Treasury that Says I have money in Swiss bank accounts of roughly how much I have and so you know, I think that's probably coming, I think it's entirely possible at some point that they start to develop a narrative. That the sound money assets are killing the American system and hurting the dollar and hurting Fiat. And we were being anti-American and very much like in 1940 in the 40s that, you know, buy war bonds, because we've got to defeat the axis, you know. And even though the war bonds paid well below the rate of inflation, people did it because they were patriotic. They come out us and say you know what, we don't want you guys doing this and so we're going to put a 70 or 90 percent tax on gains in Bitcoin and gold and that would certainly slow things down, right. I mean none of us care because we're not selling or houghtaling and you know and some of us have drawn black lines on the ground that say at some point, you know, I'm not sure I need to be an American citizen if they start to do that kind of stuff. But but I you know, I think we have to assume that they are going to do some shit that's going to be very detrimental or really You know, take a swipe at us. I think we have to assume that I know I do based on how I've seen them behave for 30 years, yeah, and that's Stinks to hear because. Yeah, really, really does. That's the thing that the flip of it is, though. It means that they're losing and they'll be a lot of people go. Hang on a second. Why are they so, why do they care about this so much? You know what I mean? I mean is that it's like, the Thomas Jefferson quote, like if if a law is unjust is right for you to disobey it and I think it's and and you know many of us are taking the mole on labe, you know, I got my 12 words, you know, sorry government. Yeah, I got some Bitcoin. It's on this truck. And it's about one coin, right? Yeah, so to spit a little you because you guys both are my spirit animals. And so, I take that internally. But on the other side, on the other side because I know I initiated this is is on the pro side from Gensler to a lot of the Draconian measures have been forced towards crypto not necessarily Bitcoin from our experience. I think some of the banks don't necessarily know the difference but if you're able to experience explain it just and I were able for our fun to have like five bank account. It's and they were pretty easy to get for get through so it's even go on. Yeah, I think dependent on and then also the other part was the presidential stuff that's happened with the different candidates that are trying to take a stand and seen, we started about the state of the state's autonomy, so I think that there is a push in pool from, you know, absolutely to be a place. So it's not old, it's not all do we might. Well, I think one of the most encouraging things is the position that, you know, RFK and That's of Taken on cvtc's, right? There's a big part of this country that understands what's going on, you know, the scam, demek all the other stuff. I mean, you know, now I'm not saying the whole country understands that the whole country obviously doesn't understand it. They got caught up in a mass psychosis over the flu, but but, you know, there there are some of us who do understand it and it's not a small group, you know, it's getting larger and louder and you're seeing you know, legitimate candidates Speaking, the things that we have been saying and that's they may not win but that's, you know, that's it's going to shift the window right of how people perceive things. Yes. And if you get that like we talked a lot about the broader picture but it comes down to it, you know, an economy is made up of individuals and he looked at that food chart of 20%, the way you beat that as you hold a better form of money. And so, everybody years, been lucky enough to get into sound money, and hold it, and their life is progressively, gotten better. That's the idea. It's that you're holding this protect yourself and your family. And as we like propagate that odd and politicians learn about it, it's their people as well. So there is a narrative there, there's not only a narrative there but there's also going back to something you said earlier, Larry which is in today's day and age the ability to run. The banks is greater and easier than it's ever been with technology. Can literally go into a mobile phone app and move money from your bank account with ten minutes. Piggybacking on that. And we saw what that's VB, particularly the age of social media, like for his gas on that fire, too, because you can get these messages out there. They spread much quicker, much instantly essentially, that's what happened, as VB, Thursday morning, the the Peter teal email to Founders fund companies leaked. And then by Friday morning, SV B was in receivership. And so, and so, the power social media is it's a double-edged sword. Where do you have that? We can have a run on the banks, pretty instantly because of the informations ability to spread instantaneously, the likewise with an encroaching state. It also affords us the power to get the message out like, hey, the state is trying to clamp down on this because they have lost control to get the message out there. So I think the optimism, The Optimist in me wants to believe that we do have the potential to avoid something like an executive order 6102 by leveraging. Communications technology that exists today. Hopefully he'll on can hold the line with free speech on Twitter. But luckily we have budding messaging protocols like Noster rising from the ashes of the, the social media companies that have succumbed to censorship that gives us the ability to keep spreading the message there if Twitter does Fall. And so I do, I feel like we're in this weird part of history with the digital age. The communications Technologies. We have at our fingertips. Tips that could lead to a positive outcome by just agree. I mean, I, you know, I just I'm prepared for the unprepared for their - moves, but I think in general were winning and I think in general, the tools, we have will allow us to Prevail and and I think that, you know, when the next when the next run starts which, you know, I don't know when that will be but you know, at some point, the FED will have to reverse course, just mathematically certainty because they don't want to have a Great Depression. And so, when that occurs, you'll have another group of regular people saying, oh my God, they can never stop printing. They've got to continue to print and our ranks will grow. I mean, our ranks are bigger than they were in 2017. You know, they're bigger than they were in 2019 and, you know, we will go through that. I mean, and I've got I've got a ton of gold bugs who bought their first Bitcoin, not a lot but they have some. And when it goes to 100,000, they're going to say. Those guys are right. You know what I mean? And and I and I don't have enough. I need more and there's not that much of ailable, you know, and we got the having coming in April next year. So you know the available Supply is going to decrease. Its you can just see it common. I mean this is this is the internet 2.0. I mean I watched the internet. I remember Krugman saying it's a fax machine. I you know, nobody believed it was going to spread the way it was going to. Spread. And yet those of us who were involved were like, you know, just wait, you know? I mean, just wait. I watched I watched PCS. I mean, my 1982, my first boss, you know, we had some PC some IBM PCS at, this is nothing but a glorified word processor, you know, an IBM selectric is just as good as who needs this thing. And I was kind of like, dude, you realize what this is going to do you have any idea? I mean, Microsoft, came public, at 14 times trailing. It was growing 40% a year and they, all they have done is they Academics toss and sold it to IBM. I mean, you know, it's it's just it's overwhelming, dogs are eating the food. And so I mean this is it's an absolute certainty. So on days when I get, you know, a little depressed as maybe the trade on a short-term basis isn't going away, you know, I sit back and you zoom out, you get the big picture. I mean, you know this is an asset that in twenty eighteen or nineteen. You could pick up for 5000 3000, 5000 7000 dollars. It's a 30. No, no, it's not at 68 and if you bought it 68 and you didn't dollar cost average, it feel like shit. But you know I mean they'll be a time when people say you bought Bitcoin at 30 or you have a whole coin, I mean how many I mean really how many whole coins are available for purchase you know as against 8 billion people in the world and you know I don't know how many 20 million millionaires I mean not not not even every millionaire in the world could have a whole coin so you know and it's demonstrable e proven to be. You a better monetary solution than the alternative so, you know, I don't know, I mean, it's pretty damn obvious to me, you know, the time scale. Well, that's, you know, that's where longtime preference helps. You know, I had we had safety and come to Boston in 2017 and talk to us. And the biggest thing I took away from that was the longtime preference, you know? Just that you gotta, you gotta, you gotta look out a way. So you can't you can't watch Today you know I don't care. I don't wake up and look at the price of Bitcoin I just don't care. You said something earlier that super fascinating is like I don't think we've seen a cycle that we all I think agree here that will happen. As you know having supplied declines that counterparty risk has been at the Forefront on both sides so along the like traditional Fiat side. You mentioned What spark it is like the bank run and people recognizing that their money isn't safe which is one component of like recognize it. Okay. There's a vowel or something guy will here. We've always done, this thought exercise or me, and Marty have always talked about, like, would you rather have 800,000 dollars in Bitcoin or of million dollars in a bank? Like, what's the number where you start to like, you know, where you rather? Actually no, you hold the asset, you can take it with you. So that's like one attribute that. I don't think that traditionally been on individuals mind of, like money. That could be a continuity for a business, or just an individual. But then the other side is we've never had the, I think level even with God's happening of Meaning of counterparty risk on holding Bitcoin with an exchange. So we talked about the manipulation back in 20, 21 22, I think by definition based on like, what you're referencing on the coins, and just the fact that like exchanges have been draining, they still there still Bitcoin there at the next runner-up will see the least amount of Bitcoin sitting on these exchanges. Because parrot, know what happened at FT acts and block Phi. So I think we're setting up for a very interesting. A lot of you guys. Probably have the numbers. If you do, I'd love to hear them. But as I remember reading something, Six about the number of coins that haven't moved in a long time. You know what I mean, the coins that you could consider cobblers who were just not going to sell them ever? You know? I mean and it's a big percentage and if you say the 21 million coins and what what do we estimate have been lost? Maybe two or three million at least maybe more three million. Yeah. Yeah. So call it 3. So let's say there's 18 of available coins. It's a pretty big percentage of that 18 that hasn't moved in five years, isn't it? You guys know the numbers? I think it's like 65%. Sent haven't moved in like a year. Yeah, that's right. I think it's closer to 67. I'm looking right now. I know unchain had it on there. Possibly, what's that? 30 percent of 18 is available, right? I mean to move so to speak, that's million coins. Yeah, he 8.1, 3% 68. I'll put it in the chat, look. Yeah, I mean it's it's not that's not a huge number in the context of a billion people. And yeah, 20 plus million millionaires, you know what I mean? I think. To what you were talking about earlier. I think there's a million addresses that have one whole coin or more and I think that I think that the addresses with less than a coin are currently gobbling up are currently stacking more than the rate that's being mind. Okay. So and that's and that's before the having so and I think and also to your millionaire point I so I've been following that statistic and of course you how people Define millionaire probably varies. But I've been watching that over over just the last four years go from. When I first started paying attention to it. I the number that I was following said 40 million millionaires in the world and now it's 60 million millionaires in the world. So just over the last four years and it but of course that's because the the measuring stick is broken and and it's not actually the people are getting richer well. So if there's any way you could be right, If they're 60 million of them, you know, not everyone on could even have a whole coin, right? I mean, so it's and I realized this could even have half a coin. It's crazy. Right? Exactly. I mean, so this thing is going to be, it's going to it's going to melt people's faces when it, when it gets into the next run, it really is. And it's a difficult asset in the way that it trades, though. I mean it's crazy because it does these periods of when I remember doubling down at 3500, in 2019, And it does these periods where it just doesn't do anything. It just sits there and you're kinda like, what the hell, you know, but then and then when it gets going, it's like it doesn't just go up, 20% it goes up multiples, you know, so if finding a base in the 20 30, 40 range, and it does a five or six x, I mean, you know, I fully expect we'll see 150 in the next run easily. Yeah. And that's it easily. And that's one thing I want to bring up tickets. This, this particular Market reminds me of 2015 is very boring. We went sideways. Ways for quite a while. It seems like at 27 wherever we're sitting right now, we're somewhere similar where we were in 2015. And one thing I've recognized just being around Bitcoin for 10 years now and it's a bit cliche and people say it is that building happens in the bear market and this bear markets, no different and I would actually make the argument that in this particular bear Market. The building that's happening in, parallel to everything going on in the macro environment and the Lull in the Bitcoin price. Mint is probably the most high leverage building that has happened in Bitcoins history. Particularly in the mining industry, with the integration with the energy sector. I mean, I'm I own part of a mining company. I'm sit on the board of a mining company and if you're in these conversations, the energy sector is waking up to Bitcoin mining. Becoming an integral part of their stack that will help them be as efficient as possible with the resources. They pull out of the ground or the electricity, they're producing. And as profitable as possible to and with energy being The base layer of our society, if you get those key stakeholders in the energy sector keyed into Bitcoin and championing it that is going to be not only a massive validation but a cohort of people that defend Bitcoin from the government moving forward to this important sector of the economy. Arguably, there are people who say that really the you want to know how Bitcoin is doing. Look at the hash, look at the global hash and I've been just shocked at how big it's gotten. I mean, Now know that Russia is participating in a big way and you know I actually think behind the scenes, you know, America might even be doing something as well. But yeah, it as the hash continues to grow the network gets more and more secure and everybody who's involved in that, you know, has a role in defending it. And so, you know, as I say it's, you know, they're just a lot of dogs eating food. There's a lot of momentum behind it. You know, it's almost like, you know, don't don't really think too much about the price recognize what it is and recognize what it's likely to become and you know, we'll look back at. These are the good old days when you could buy a coin for 30,000 because that's not going to be available in the future. Yeah. And Logan, if you want to pull up the hash rate chart, I think it's important to you about the three-year please because I think this is just an incredible chart the highlights, right? Look look that at that decline in July of 2021. During the China bound, that's like a blip on the chart now we're Wow, her more than three yet, we're almost 3 X above. We're excited to and a half that's above. I remember that dip really looking like the sky was falling. Like, you know, there was genuine concern mid 2021, that there was some Doom Loop going on with the Bitcoin hash rate and miners would all capitulate down to zero. And now on this chart it's such a minor footnote in the upper trajectory of this thing. Yeah, good good. Marty well to your point Jesse, this is a big opportunity to teach newcomers to the show. We're trying to learn about Bitcoin that mining death spiral is a mean that cut that comes around anytime the hash rate Falls significantly they think oh miners falling off the network. What's going to secure the network? But the beautiful thing about Bitcoin is it has a difficulty adjustment. So every 2016 blocks are roughly every two weeks, the network does a backward. Look at How quickly or slowly blocks are being produced and if they're being produced to slowly above 10 minutes, then the difficulty adjust down to make it easier to mine to incentivize and more profitable to mine, to make it, to incentivize miners to turn back on. Begin producing blocks and alternatively, if blocks are coming in at less than 10 minutes on average, the difficulty will just up to get it back towards that 10-minute Target, make a little bit harder in a mine, it really is an ingenious system. I mean, it's definitive time. I'm and it's definitive energy and I hope I'm sure you guys have listened to it. But I I was absolutely Blown Away by the what is money was sailor that he did at the, at the show? It's one of the more recent ones and also the one with Jason Lowry, you know, it's it's just so obvious to me that, you know, that energy really is what runs the world. And that energy is the natural discount rate and you know, Bitcoin is pure digital energy and this will become Is everybody in the future? It's not obvious right now, but those who don't see it and don't participate in. It are going to be at a significant economic disadvantage to those of us who do see it and are willing to bet on it and support it. I mean, I saw a tweet recent talk about, you know, imagine being able to buy Manhattan, real estate in 1800 and that's kind of what we're looking at here. I mean, it's, you know, it's the base layer and, you know, the transaction fees might get very high and I thought was very interesting the way the transaction fees went up recently with, The nft is the ordinals of some of that stuff but that's a preview of Coming Attractions. I mean there will come a day when the average person isn't able to afford or doesn't want to do and I'm chained transaction because on chain transactions will be just too expensive and that's okay. That's the way it should be. Yeah and it goes back to what we were saying earlier building happens in the bear market. And again, in this bear Market, the progression of second layer is particularly lightning Network. We had the launch of fetty if any mints. Excuse me, fetty is a Company that's creating a front-end on 30 minutes which is new. Second layer solution. We had Barack just announced his ark protocol, which won't come anytime soon and some updates to the Bitcoin core consensus code. But that's another option that will have liquid which is block streams. Second layer solution Federated option as well is actually beginning to get more traction and so the scaling of Bitcoin at the transactional layer, I will happen above the base layer where it will simply be too expensive for your average, Joe to spend a you T XO because the congestion in the demand to get into blocks, will be so high. But we are working on. Second layer Solutions, make it very easy to spend Bitcoin instantly and relatively cheap, correct? Yeah, I know it's it's a beautiful thing. It really is and I, you know, I'm just I'm very encouraged by it all I'm and I'm very bullish on the future. I mean, I just, you know, it's it gives me a lot of Hope and you know, the government and the fact that the government's can't see it, you know, what would you expect, right? I mean this is a sclerotic broken system that's you know, trying to hang on to its privileged and they're just not going to succeed. Yeah, that would go ahead. So that that chart it doesn't show up in the charts, but we experience daily as like the human capital coming into the space as well, like the People are really building the people leaving some of the best like top-tier organizations or the crypto bubble and realizing what's happening. And they're not General individuals, that's generally submitted application and let it there, you know, heart felt passionate, you know, people that are trying to further a cause and that you don't get that priced in. And so it's just been exciting. Like, very hadn't seen it before this like Lola, where, there's just so many things being worked on right now. That we know what's the price and just kind of adoption goes. There's gonna be a lot of tools that didn't exist previously. My favorite description of Bitcoin is digitales. It's the digital galt's Gulch in. That's exactly what we're seeing. Whether it be the human capital coming over. Well, certainly the human capital coming over a bunch of people who work. In traditional Tech, traditional banking traditional Finance. There are a lot of bitcoiners in those sectors that really have had the light switch go off in their minds and feel a drive to come work on bitcoin. Coin and to further the cause like Michael said, and like you said Larry the government, does not understand what's going on and we're in our little digital galt's Gulch building out the future. And hopefully, we're successful building that future. And, and it creates the potential for the soft Landing that Jerome. Pal thinks he can create. Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's exactly right. This stuff is going to save the world, it really. It's going to save the world and that's a good thing. It's a very good thing because the world needs saving right now. I mean we've hit we've hit Peak Fiat, you know we already hit it and we're over the peak or coming down the other side. And so now we're just you know it's I mean if you're if you believe in the Fiat system you're just definitely on the wrong side of history as like it's like being a loyalist and you know America and 1789 I mean or 70 times six when you just you're going to get fucked. I mean yes. You know, and I mean, there are plenty of other, you know, phase transitions that, you know, that are similar. I mean, you know, you're the Catholic church and, you know, you say only your, scribes can transmit the Bible and only your people have the power to interpret the word of God. And then Luther, you know, Nails up thesis and then Gutenberg gets depressed going. And, you know, guess what, that's not the way it really is. And so, this thing is, it's going to change the world in a really positive way. And that's what I'm very excited about and I just want to See it and do everything I can to participate in I guess I think earlier, when he asked her what can we do? And I think the only thing we can do is just be very loud and proud and and helpful to those who don't see it and don't understand it and try to explain it to them and try to try to get the word out. And, you know, I mean, it's our numbers keep growing and you know, I mean there are those of us who are doing it now and in five or ten years will be multiples of Of us doing it, you know, and so, it just, and that at some point, it'll look like it was obvious all along, you know, we're not at that stage yet. At least. Not with most people. Yeah, I think, I think at this stage, you still get to put a small signature on the Declaration of Independence. If you're a part of this, like Community being vocal being loud and trying to promote this cause. And then, of course, you know, Century from now it'll I feel like everybody was lining up to put their name on the Declaration of Independence, but that was that was a small group of people who are not going to stand for. It really was. I mean you know we all do we owe an incredible debt to people like say 15 who wrote that book, that you know, tall, you guys Austrian economics. I mean, I was, you know, I knew Austrian economics, 25 years ago when I there you go. When I bring it up, when I bring is a Von mises people. Look at me like I had two heads and like I was crazy and I I Yeah, I got a I got a Stanford MBA and and I've told safe that with one book. He undid my Stanford MBA right out the window. Yeah, right, I mean, it's in the Keynesian, it's just, it's a broken, it's a flawed model. It's a completely flawed model and that we in our grandkids will say, I can't believe you guys. Let the government have control of something as important as the price of money. I just can't believe you did it, but, but I get it. You know, you corruption the FED, etc. Etc. And I just anecdotally, I've had many instances in my personal life of individuals who I've been talking to about Bitcoin friends family, and I've sent me pictures of the Bitcoin standard like all right, I'm finally diving in and then conversely older individuals in my life or at retirement, ready to go. And they have a lot of their retirement money in these retirement accounts that had Target date funds, that shifted their whole retirement. Meant to the 80/20 Bond, stock, allocation that are sitting there looking at that dissolving right in front of them and having the light bulb go off, like, oh, this is not what I thought it was going to be. When I retired. That's a big problem. That many people aren't aware of is those Target date funds and how underwater a lot of them are recorded. T, ft c-- episode with Matt dines earlier this week, we really dive into it and it's a scary problem when you think about it, Yeah, yeah. I mean it's sadly. So many people are going to be deprived of their life's effort as a result of a criminal system, you know, diluting it through printing money and really stealing their money. I mean, it's, it's just, it's criminal, it's tragic. I mean, it's in the same way that a lot of people work for companies, they thought they had a pension and pension was caught and then the company failed and, you know, private Equity, took it over and levered it up and it went bankrupt and you know private Equity guys. Did Great, but they, you know, their pension disappeared. I mean, you know, the rule of law in America. I mean the founding documents of America was so beautiful and yet we've never really lived up to them. And we progressively abuse them and I think I think we reached Peak abuse, you know, post 1971 and all the way up to 2008. And and then it continues, frankly continues, but you know we've got an alternative system now and it's like Von mises said, I mean they can't Stop it. You know, they don't like it but they can't stop it. And we're going to take it away from them because people aren't stupid and they're going to once they realize that this is the right choice. They're going to they're going to join us. All of them. Killer that that's a big part of this pot is like helping bridge that Gap from the digital asset. When will crypto Bitcoin curious into like what it what is happening here? How does it apply to traditional finance? And something that I learned recently and I kind of in a totally new but it's really come to light as like financial advisor. In the wealth. Managers incentive model is just absolutely horrible for anybody that made wealth and their life to be taken care of her, be pushed in this direction from the cya cya acid accumulation. To even if you do get a sub 5 percent allocation and they want you to rebalance, it is just like, it's criminal because people are trusting that they made their money, they give it all to them, they give them autonomy to make it. And now they're just sitting there on this thing, that's losing them, 10% and their can't retire or their retirement isn't much less than what the I mean, you mean you're not listening to Suze Orman, just people in the crypto space there that do the Emmy and that are crypto financial. Advisors that have the same thing diversification across 10. Different basket of assets are Dave, Ramsey? I mean, it's, you know, or CNBC, I mean, come on. I mean, it's just, it's these people are pissing on our leg and they say, it's raining. I mean, it's just, it's horrible, it's absolutely horrible. I mean, it, you know, it just You know, the good news is, you know, we do have critical thinkers in this country and you know I think people when presented with evidence often come to the right conclusion and I have many people have orange pill do started off being vehemently against it and you know, unless unless they're you know, abusive my view is I Won't Give Up on anybody, you know, as long as I think I can get a ultimately convert them, I had a guy really good friend for my CrossFit gym. We went out to I was I saw him the other day. We went out to a breakfast back in 2017, when or 2019 ones at 3500, he said I want to give my kids Christmas presents, like he's rich guy. They've got about 3,000 to spend on each kid. I said, give me a Bitcoin and one of the kids was there, the kid work for Goldman Sachs and the guy said not going to give a Bitcoin, that's bullshit in the kids that I would want that. If you gave me that, I'd sell it right away and I saw that guy for lunch about a month ago and I said, hey you remember that breakfast? We had where we talked about Bitcoin, he says, yeah, I rub my kids. Facing that every time I see him almost asking because I got nothing going to ask kid, that told me it was transitory back in 2021. That was what they were telling their yeah there you know. It's okay. Yeah. Fine. You had a chance to have one for 3,500 bucks, you didn't take it good. I was a good move. I mean it's everyone gets at the price, they deserve and so people need to do the work and once they do the work, once they think it through Its logical conclusion, and it's hard. It's hard to think out, you know, years and decades and generations. I mean, I, you know, in the 20s when, you know, my grandfather was driving, his Ford Model T, I'm sure he couldn't foresee that, you know, we have roads all over the country and families would own multiple cars and the cars wouldn't break down and you know, they'd be maybe a fabulous form of transportation, you know. But you know you could see that. I mean you know and this thing I mean it is somewhat clunky still I mean, it's not, you know, for me self custody, as an example of scary, to a lot of people people, particularly people, my age, you know, but it's not unsolvable. It's not undoable as we all know. And, you know, and as I say, I've seen a lot of people be converted and you know, it's an idea whose time has come. And so therefore, it will win. I mean, it to me. It's just, I've never been so sure of something so, you know, it's as Marty It's Marty actually always says you know, relax will win, you know, and we will. So you know, I wish we went a little faster. You guys have a longer ramp to see the outcome. I want to see. I want to see the outcome sooner rather than later because I think the world is a lot better on the other side of hyper Bitcoin ization. You know, I think a lot of things, a lot of the problems we have disappear and a lot of frauds and charlatans, you know, we can't do that shit anymore. And so you get Paid for actually doing a house work. You get paid for doing the right thing. The only way, you know, the only way to add value is to add it. Honestly and then save honestly. And those people who save will be rewarded as opposed to those people who spend and you know, play around and Fiat and tying this back to the FED conversation with what they're going to do with rates, you knows that, they pause whatever and that's and tying it into things being better on the other side of hyper bit. Quantization. What, When really does is just bring opportunity cost back to markets, which the FED has completely corrupted with or control the FED funds rate, which distorts the pricing mechanism, which is the money of the world and leads to Capital misallocation. And a lot of this, the zombie companies that we see throughout our economy and the area, we, you know, given all the technology technological developments that we've had, we should be living much, much better lives and we should be doing much much more intelligent. Stuff. And, you know, we, I mean, when you get the cost of capital wrong, then the wrong projects, get support of the wrong things happen. Electricity is too expensive. I mean, you know, we should have nuclear power everywhere, you know? And we should all be given a given how much innovation has been in the last 30 years? We should all be living at much, much higher standards of living, but we don't and we haven't because the money is broken. And therefore, the system, we've wasted a lot of Savings and money on stuff. That doesn't make sense. Well, because it's not, right? It's not priced appropriately. Well, that's the really frustrating and somewhat nefarious part of the narrative that's fed to us, which is look at. Look at you for your in four different cities across the u.s. streaming over the internet, using cameras using microphones the internet's cheap. The monitor that you're looking at is relatively cheap, the quality of life has never been better. The services have never been better, it's particular nefarious, because if you look at Cat the statistics here in the u.s. specifically. I mean, you have the life expectancy of men falling, you have depths of Despair at all-time highs overdoses suicides. It's it, we may have the ability to do this live stream and speaking to these mics and access the internet relatively cheaply, walk around with super computers in our pockets. But that is all in spite of the despair. That Around us as well. And it's a you can look at some metrics like the cost of Technology particularly but in try to paint a Rosy picture that but you have to look at the whole picture. And if you look at the whole picture, there is a lot of Despair that I would argue. And I'm sure the three of you would argue as well. Stems from the fact that we've corrupted the money and created this perverse incentives throughout our economy. Hillary mentioned, you mentioned Venture and like the mark-to-market there's a I don't know if you've heard of there's a guy Eric new. Homer, he was at the informations, like a Silicon Valley, and so, I heard he recorded a pod yesterday. Came out with guy. Kyle Harrison, who's a venture capitalist out of her? Call Community contrary capital and it basically talk. And they don't even, they don't know the answer. They don't know it's the money, but they're basically just explaining how you think about. I think Dora from Uber said, you know, they're, you know, economics have never, you know, been profitable there. This, you know, multibillion-dollar firm. I don't even know the number of people. I think probably ten to thirty thousand people work for that company. Trying to profit and that they're thinking about finally like batten down the hatches and thinking about profitability, and just thinking through, what are the number of companies that have either been ruined or shouldn't exist by the amount of capital that was thrown their way and you extrapolate that to the people working at them. The, you know, you think well, like the centralization of a Facebook or Google and, you know, you have the best data scientist working on just engineering that one extra click or that, you know, extra million clicks of that, you know, particular thing versus some of the stuff you talked about in The Innovation side. And so yeah, I once you get down to the incentive model, the opportunity cost and how clearly like loose monetary policy is like push people in directions that they should never have been. It just unroll the whole Rabbit Hole of like what could we can do it the past 50 to 100 years and where would we be? Yeah we've been we've been a much better place. The sad part is nobody can see that a very few people can see that, you know, we were supposed to have the Jetson car and instead we had the test Car. I mean, yeah, it's, I don't know. The to me, actually, the the biggest bee in my Bonnet prickly after listening to say or talk about it. I mean, energy runs the world, right? If you've all seen the curve of how we, you know, how much energy it takes to keep eight billion people in a decent lifestyle or alive. And the fact that we've ignored what is demonstrable e the clearest highest Roi form of energy, which Is nuclear power. I mean I can't you know I can't even begin to imagine how many people have died and suffered as a result of not solving that problem. Do you know what I mean? I mean I give you a perfect example me, electric cars in Massachusetts are going to have a hybrid car. It doesn't even make sense to plug it in for the hybrid, it's a its hybrid electric with battery. It will go 30 miles on the battery. The electric cost here in Massachusetts is 31 cents per kilowatt hour. You know how high that is. I mean, less gasoline's, eight or nine dollars. It does not make sense for me to plug in my electric hybrid here won't be chooses. Yeah, and why is that? Because Massachusetts won't allow a power line to bring five cent power down from Hydro, go back and it won't allow a gas line to come out of Pennsylvania to bring in cheap gas from Pennsylvania. So we have to bring our power in in forms that are very expensive that lead to 31 sent energy and you know it's easy to say well you know whatever people seem to get by in Massachusetts, but do they really mean does the The does, the family that's paying $300 for an electrical bill and, and, and that, you know, they're not making much money so that really eats into their ability to buy, just basic food. I mean, is that, is that really a good thing? Yeah, it's terrible. Right? That's heroin, I just put a chart in the show notes, it will pull up here so the Henry Adams curve, right. And so the actual energy usage versus what it arguably should be if you want to increase energy production with population growth and have the quality. Life and increasing quality of life that we experienced throughout the first between 1800 and funnily enough around 1971. And the so this chart would just highlights is that the energy use per capita is gone sideways since the 70s and again, this could be a multi factored. The the the unwillingness to let nuclear proliferate and then to the misallocation of capital, that's throwing money, at Tech startups. Set of critical. Energy infrastructure. Exactly correct. I mean, it's just it's the whole thing is the whole thing is really broken, you know, we'd and we need we need people who understand it. Engineers who understand we need sailor to be head of the national you know, energy society and to be advising the government on what we should be doing if we want to have better standards living which is I think what really all of us are looking for we want to want to live. Well, we want our families to prosper, you know? We want to have Houses that are heated. We want to electrical, it's cheap, we want to have food, that's decent, you know, to have all of those things. You have to have efficiency and Fiat is anti efficiency. Some money drives efficiency by its very nature, but but that, that thought pattern Keynesian have lost that because they're all about growth and animal spirits and growth at any cost. And, and that's just all, it's all wrong. It's just, it's completely wrong. I mean akane's, Was an evil guy. I mean apart from the fact that he was a pedophile, you know? I mean the notion that, you know, the notion that he was the notion that he, you know, that in the long run were all dead, which is more like saying what through R Square D apart? Let's party on as grow. Great. Right, I mean, you know, fuck you. I mean not Young. No, and well yeah, the long run, I am dead but I want to leave behind a world that's better for my kids and grandkids, you know, and not just party today in some that fueled orgy so that you know, everything can Slater. I mean, it's just got to be a sustainability argument here somewhere and the Keynesian is just totally missed that. Yeah, of course, canes and I have any kids or grandkids for that matter. So you guys really care who's dead and nothing. Yeah. Buddy. He was leaving behind the best. Oh. So you wiped his hands and left it with the rest of us. Exactly. And you know I mean it's it's an evil. It's an evil thought pattern that these people are involved in and but it you know, it's great. If you're a statist I mean it does give a A lot of power to people in the state and some people really enjoy that power and, you know, Psychopaths do and they're going to do what they're going to do. But, you know, here we are, we got a system that's going to fight it. And so I think it's incumbent upon all of us to try our best. To push the system forward as fast as we can. Because in my view, it's definitely the right way to it's the Legacy. I know I want to leave, which is, you know, fought for a better system and you know, It will emerge. I'm not too worried that I mean whether I fight for it or not I think it's going to emerge but I'd like to see it emerge faster. That's why I'm fighting definitely commend you for being that bridge. I don't think it's an easy. It may seem like Jesse was saying in retrospect will, you know, will look back at. Oh that was an easy thing but being the gold guy to help lead the the torch and tolerate that corn. Yeah, some of the big Corners. Take the view that you know there can only be one and by supporting gold. I'm not supporting Bitcoin tonight. I say that's bullshit. I mean, I think, I mean, to me, I think I've said this before, you know, gold is the gold is the gateway drug and, you know, Bitcoins the heroin, we want to get them addicted to heroin, but, you know, sometimes sometimes you gotta bring it. Where she got her going through. The gateway drug seven-year-old was no right to bitcoin. All right, you know, I try and get them interested in sound money and if they want safe sound money as a gold. And okay, once you got that, now, let me show you how to really make money and that's Bitcoin. So, you know, I would never advise buying Bitcoin over gold, but I'll take a gold bug and trying Just tell them every day of the week. So I think anything that drains Fiat is helping our cause, I mean, you know, I think you either are buying and saving and Fiat which means you're supporting a broken system or you're buying and saving and sound money. And, you know, one is a better form of sound money Bitcoin. But but I'd much rather have somebody buy gold and buy bonds. I mean you know you're with bonds and Fiat you're supporting a broken War mongering corrupt system by buying sound money you're saying you know I'm draining their system. I don't want to play. I'm not playing your game. You know, fuck you guys government. I'm not going to play your game, you know. I think you can understand Bitcoin without understanding gold, right? And if you buy a little along the way, because I mean, by understanding back, when you understand money and gold was money for a very long time, that's right. I mean, it look, you know, before 2008, it was the only alternative we had, right? And and it's still for some people. It's not a terrible alternative. I mean, it it will not lose its value, it will it will lose its value relative to bitcoin, but it will hold its value. As opposed to Fiat, I know that. So yeah. Do you think do you think that most people are still on a 60/40 portfolio and do they do, they do those people have to go through gold to get to bitcoin? Or do you think that there's like a narrative, a path, some other like way they can talk themselves into Bitcoin being having value? Well I think I don't think you need to go through. Ooh, goal at all, I can go right to bitcoin. I know a lot of people who have and they just get it like well if I'm going sound money, why even screw around with going to skip that step. So the reason to hold gold versus Bitcoin is if you can't handle the drawdowns, I mean think about it, you're 70 years old, you got ten million dollars, you know, you don't want to wake up one morning and have your 10 million B3 and it's going to freak you out, you know? Now if you dollar cost average, that's less likely to happen, but the point is we have seen recurring large protons and Bitcoin and when as you get Later in life, you need to you know, you don't want to suffer those drawdowns that's disturbing so to speak. So you know, so what to me, gold is just less volatile, sound money and Bitcoin is, I mean, I actually view in a 60/40, you know, kind of do that portfolio. Where gold is your bond and Bitcoin is your Equity, right? I mean, it's not snowing be yeah. If I gold gold. I mean the biggest draw Downs ever in gold and kind of 20-25 percent a year. So, you know, and most L don't like 25%, draw downs but you can hold him. And if you look at gold over long periods of time, even though it's underperform Bitcoin over long periods of time is kind of compounded, 8, or 9% a year and that's in spite of being suppressed massively. So you know eight or nine percent. A year, is not bad, it's not great, but it's not bad. So to me, you know, it just it's a it's a less volatile sound, money alternative with Bitcoin being a far superior alternative and but yeah, you can skip gold. And I like I said, if I wouldn't own any gold, you know. I think I saw somebody said recently that, you know, looking ahead over the next few decades is going to be gold for central banks and Bitcoin for the people. Do you think that we're going to see kind of a skewing of a self-selecting of you-know-who? Which acid, makes sense, Rich demographic. I think central banks will ultimately have to embrace Is Bitcoin. I mean I think that you know the sound is money does always win ultimately. And and I think that, I think that sense, I mean however having said that, you know, I'm not even sure we'll really have central banks. I mean, I think there's a possibility. I mean, what's a central bank? Do we really need one? I mean it. You know, if you think about it, if we have hyper Bitcoin ization, why do you need a central bank? I mean, Bitcoins are Central Bank really? Why does the government need to have? You know, I'm in a government should be able. They should they should Tax, what they need for to keep the system fair, and they should spend to run the courts. And that's about it in my view. I mean that to me to me the only role. I mean, I'm not a complete Anarchist but to me the role of government ought to be to try as a referee to keep a liquid Level Playing Field. So they ought to maintain Law and Order. They are, you know, have court systems and rules and laws. So that, you know, Psychopaths get punished and murderers, go to jail, and sandbank Winfrey gets caught and all that kind of stuff, but and that I don't really see much. Of a role for government and my such as we all if we all paid five or ten percent of our income, you know, forget all the transfer payments for get all the retirement consider all that stuff. Let people be responsible for their own lives. The government would be perfectly capable of doing that on a on a modest charge to the rest of us and we'd be willing to pay it because, you know, we don't know what you guys. I want a court system. I want laws. Yeah, you know I want I want I want guys who were murderers to get thrown in jail, you know? Um, let's tell that it's entirely sensible to sensible. You know, I think we see the average American and increasingly want more and more government, which sort of lends itself to the possibility that we're heading towards. Why Mar before people figure out that we can't just meet all of our needs that we that we would love to, you know, all that all the safety, net that any average person wishes his could be there. Are there going to have to lose it? The hard way, ya know it's funny as the government gets bigger and they get more control and less accountability. What you find is, you actually end up with kangaroo courts, where they just do whatever they want to whoever they want well, because they're so large. Yeah, they change. They bend the rules to support the people in power, and people in power of the mind. It's a circular system, right? I mean Fiat, and we've got a Fiat government, you know, they're all. I mean How's Elizabeth Warren, get a 60 million dollar net worth, you know, making two hundred eighty five grand a year. I mean you know it's Janet Yellen worth 7 million dollars. In speaking fees, I mean, it's just it's a joke, right? I mean, we, these people are all whores that have sold our rights and privileges are natural-born rights are being sold to the highest bidder. The highest bidder, the Fiat guys, who get at the Cotillion are money Trail first and they can borrow at 0%. I mean, you know, Ken Griffith has 250 million dollar Penthouse in New York, because Ben bernanke's is advisor. And And you know, when his risk parity trade went tits up and March of 2020 Bernanke called the fed and got him a swap line and he lived, he should have been bankrupt, you know? I mean, we get, we get Lloyd blankfein, holding forth on Twitter about military matters. I mean, he should have been bankrupt, you know, Goldman Sachs and AIG Bowl should have failed. He should have been out of a job. You know and some other bank would have come along and replace Goldman that was more honest you know but instead he's got a 60 million dollar house in the Hamptons, you know, and he holds forth on Twitter. About military matters. I mean, in all these wars would stop, right? I mean who's going to pay for them? I mean, I don't want to kill three million check. I don't want to kill 3 million Vietnamese rice Farmers but you know Henry Kissinger did, and Richard Nixon. Did and we did, we killed three million Vietnamese people in my lifetime. I mean, what the fuck? And that's half of the goddamn Holocaust, the owners. Why? Because the domino theory that if South Vietnam, when communist, you know, our lives would change, it would be a very dangerous thing. Well, how did that work out? You know. Went off the gold standard to pay for it. Exactly. Yeah. We want the goats and we went off the gold standard to pay for it, right? So it's you know this is a this is an incredibly broken and fucked up system and its and we got to fix it. We absolutely have to fix it and it's our money will fix it. Fix the money. Fix the world, right? Marty, yes sir. We're going to win and it's a tie it up. Tie this conversation up with actionable solution, there's many of About their new listeners to the pots new podcast who are just listening to the podcast. And we're catering towards like a high net worth individual investor class and you may be listening. As I guide, these guys are just talking crazy anti-government like what is an actual an actionable like Bitcoin products outside of like just holding it that that would make sense to me and tie this back to the conversation. I had with Matt dines earlier this week about the retirement account funds and that 80/20 Bond stock split that Most retirees are sitting at. Now a lot of them if they don't want to touch Bitcoin directly, there are products being developed particularly by Matt and build that get them credit exposure where they don't have to buy Bitcoin directly. But it ties into Unchained lending desk, where and Jane has a great lending desk where it's over collateralized 40%, LTV the escrow account is a multisig wallet where the borrower holds one key unchain holds one Kingdom trust very The on-ramp model of Distributing that multi-institutional risk Distributing that risk between multi institutions. And so for Institutional Investor like like how can I get exposure to bitcoin? There's ways to get exposure via credit. If you go to build, give them money, they funnel to unchanged, lending desk, it's over clatter eyes. You're getting like a 14% apy And you can roll that up into your retirement account instead of sitting on treasuries that are losing Money. And this product works because bitcoiners that want to sell their Bitcoin, they'd rather take out a loan against it. Get some cash liquidity. Yeah, I mean that's that is a brilliant app and I know Matt dines is pushing that forward and I am totally supportive of that support of what Unchained is doing. I mean, there's so many Innovative products that are coming in the space and I think, you know, it really behooves people to take the time to understand them but it does take time and it takes a willingness to think outside of the box. But as my friend Faust says, I mean, the one thing you can be sure of is that, you know, your Fiat is going to debase. And I know, because I watched my father retired Her with a fair amount of money for a Midwestern businessman in the 70s and 80s. And I watched how the purchasing power of that money just drained away over time and and, you know, I mean, you know that sadly I think that's going to happen to a lot of people you know, it's tempered losing losing 10% of your purchasing power every year. You know, it makes you poor pretty fast and, you know, that's if you just if you're if you're hanging out in Fiat and you're hanging out in Fiat, bonds that are paying the 3%. When inflation is 13, you know, you're losing 10% of your purchasing power every single year. He got to stop that. You got it, you got to fight back against that. And so you know at a minimum I try counsel my clients to, you know, ask themselves what piece of my piece of your assets are in things that can't be printed or in sound money real estate qualifies to and the - there's obviously the taxes but No, the most obvious things that qualify our Bitcoin and gold, and silver, and to some degree equities. But you got to be careful there because I think the equity Market is still in a bubble. So you got to pick and choose carefully. Yeah, and from experience, I think that the most impactful thing is just have a tiny allocation point, one percent 14, then just play with it. Once you start looking at it, you have some skin rash. We start to pay attention closer and then everything else follows. But most people don't believe, that's exactly what I do. I say this, I say to people. Oh look, this has so much as symmetry, right? You can go up 10 x, it can go up 100 x, I think it's going up 1000 x. So if you put one percent of your net worth into this and you lose it, you still have 99 percent of your net worth, but if you put one percent in it and it goes up 100x, you've doubled your net worth, you know. So I mean, how can you, how can you miss something like this? It's so friggin obvious, you know, how can I mean, you know, we all say that we know it to be true. It's just the only wrong allocation is 0, you know? I mean zero is just Not the right answer. You have to own some Bitcoin going on a lot. Fine. You know it wouldn't and what's the worst that can happen? It can become worthless. It could become absolutely worthless. It could be a technical bug in the system I think unlikely but the whole thing could blow up and you lose what you've got it fine but you know when you've got the chance to make 3 5 10 50 100 200 1000 times your money over the next 20 or 30 years. You know, I think the future will be defined by those people who bought it and those who didn't and there's going to be an enormous difference. It's and the outcome. I mean, enormous. You know, it's going to be like, you know, I think I told you about the Microsoft store is one with great regrets in my life. I bought it with one of my early bonuses and I made one and one up two or three acts and and I, you know, I'm still a good comedy. Making money growing blah blah. I couldn't see what was gonna happen. I believed in PCS, and I need, I want to buy a condominium because I wanted to own a place to live in. So I sold my Microsoft stock, you know, and I got the 60 or 70 grand and we probably put in And I bought my condo and that was great, kind of, but the point is, if I'd held out of that Microsoft stock you would have been life-changing and stuff. The point of this, the the title is pain. I don't know if we shared it as the last trade. Yeah, yeah. That's a great title. That actually is a great title. Yeah. You don't need to trade it. You know this is this is one of those. I mean you know grab a calculator and play with it. Do compound interest. I mean if you if you can invest some normal sum of money and you know that's the advantage young people have, right? Play with a calculate play. With a compounding calculator, you can invest some normal sum of money and compounded even at 10 or 12% a year of the time you'll get ready to retire. It's stunning. How big that number is. It's just stunning. I mean compound interest in Buffett said a compound is just really is one of the seven wonders of the world and I think what you've got here is you've got a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to to buy an asset that will compound forever for a very very long time. And so to me I you know, I recommend all my clients that they own some Bitcoin and, you know, it takes time to understand why and understand it. But I like everybody should take the time to do it because I think the future will be defined by those people who owned it and those who didn't. And I think those who didn't are going to experience enormous regret, you know if they were made aware of it and they didn't they didn't take a chance to buy some of it. The future will be written by the winners. Well, it will ya. It will guess what? Guys we're going to win. So we know that we're just trying to get more people on board because doing so will make it happen faster. And that's good for the world all around in every respect. I mean, there's so many. I mean, just apart from number go up. I mean, it's going to do so many good things in the world. I mean, just look at the remittances cases, look at, I don't know. They're just there's so many, you know, look at the workout. Alex glance Tina's doing you know to bring it to third world countries. I mean it's changing lives. It really is. So when you can back it on a number you can back it because you're greedy, you can back it because you think it's the future, you can back it because you love the technology. You can back it because it helps poor people that are unbanked. I mean there are million different reasons we can back it because it leads to Energy Efficiency by, you know, capturing stranded energy. As I know, Marty you're doing with your Mining Company there. You know, you can back it for 40. Different reasons we pick whichever one you like the fact of the matter is It's an enormous technological paradigm shift and if you miss it you're going to regret it. I mean it's like is like having the opportunity to buy into the internet, you know, Google Microsoft whatever, something, something very technological technologically fundamental that we is going to change the world. And so, you know, think of it in those terms this nobody before, this is a to me, this is an enormous technological innovation that never existed until they solved about Different engineering problems at once, you know, cyber security, hash rate, difficulty adjustment and on and on and they solve them all in a way that gives you immutable digital scarcity, and that's a big fucking deal. It's a big, big, big deal technologically. Thank Printing, Press, thank internet. Think automobile, whatever. It's a fucking technical Innovation. And so, you know, you either decide, you're going to be betting on this technical Innovation or you decide, you're going to let it. Cassia by and I know more my belly has. My bet is I'm betting on this technological innovation because I've seen this movie before, I saw it with the internet, I saw with PCS, it's the same movie and we're in early days, so you're not too late. I mean, you think well I have friends who bought it for a hundred or three hundred or a thousand or five thousand, is it 30,000 28? No you're not. This is buying Microsoft in 1987 you know when it's up 10x but it's about to go up 1000x. That's How I see it. So, That's my story and I'm sticking with it. Well, it's a great story and we really appreciate your time this afternoon. They're always fun, talking to you guys. You guys are the young tigers and I get re-energized when I when I see the Youth of this country going in the right direction, you guys are at the Forefront. Well, that's the other thing too. It's a you have the direct positive externalities, a Bitcoin will be the energy. The scarce asset number, go up. And then Something culturally with in Bitcoin and then Michael and I have talked a lot about and others as well. Is that for me, personally, I think it gave me confidence to have a large family to try to go grow large family and you see this with many other bitcoiners now, have this money that they're pretty confident isn't going to be debased and they're starting families, younger going for our kids. Absolutely. When your time preference shifts and you see that you're going to win and you see that you've got, you can actually save and they're not robbing from you every year. It's incredibly Empower 'full empowering. I mean I'm I was depressed when I was when I was in Gold alone and get my ass kicked on a regular basis by the powers that be I was bringing depressed. And you know this thing this thing has given me, hope it's given me a lot of Hope and and I think rightly so not not just not just kind of some emotional stupid Pie in the Sky hope. I mean I'm looking at it very hard, cold technologically, you know what it is and saying, holy shit. Yeah, we got the tool here to make this thing work, so it's good thing, it's a really good thing. It's incredible. Larry. Appreciate you joining. All right, forward. Hopefully we see you soon. Yeah, we'll see you soon anytime. I'll be at all the shows, you know that and I'm as you know, I'm a loudmouth on Twitter and I somebody's going to make me up a meme. I want something to make me up a mean old man yells at Federal Reserve or old man yells at central banks. Yes I feel like I feel like that's my role. I mean Jeff Booth always kind of chastise me. She's dude you got to be less angry gotta be more positive. You got you know you need to find Zen and I'm like, dude, I can't find Zane. And I want to kill these motherfuckers spirit animal. Well, yeah, because they've just made, you know, they've done so many bad things and they made the world such a broken place and they, you know, and you gotta call it out. I mean, it's not. I feel like saying, I mean, I'm like Jeff. Okay. So Sam Adams was sitting there saying, oh, you know, the Kings, not such a bad guy. I mean, I know in one really has our best interests at heart. We can live with this shit. Yeah, they want to taxes but big deal I'll fuck that. Shit the king Fucking asshole. You know what I mean? What our own goddamn country. We want to live by our own rules. The royalty is bullshit. You know. And so, you know, I think you got it. I think you got a call them as you see him and so that's why I do it the way I do. It different than I'm, I'm more aligned with you spirit animal. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. Yeah, so energy. Yeah, exactly. So look, we all you can't change your nature and I, you know, I am what I am. So I just I'm not going to change and You know, I want to be Zen and very positive and I am positive on the outlook for the world but I'm not at all happy. I'm this Central Bankers who run this place. If you know, fucked us all up and kill a lot of people and that makes me mad makes me very mad. Well, I hope this review enjoy the rest of your night, your to going to go home. And if Larry is going to request that, somebody is listening to this. Make a meme about old man yelled Central Bank. Actually, Michael Jesse and I have a request to, we need an intro song for this podcast. And so we're going to open source the intro song to the audience. If any of you out there are equipped to to hop into GarageBand or Adobe Premiere, whatever you'd like with two possibilities. One is Twisted Sister, We're Not Going to take it anymore, and the second would be, the second would be Tom Petty's, I won't. Back down. I think a little Metallica and don't tread on me and that one works too. Yeah yeah. Steve Earle has 12 something about the revolute? The revolution is now it's a great Steve Earle song. Yeah I know it's it is what it is, right? We're in a fight and we're going to win so it's all good. It's really nice seeing you guys. I'm honored to be on your show Marty and I love you guys all that you're doing. So keep up the The fight. Okay, she can join us. Yeah, the honor is all ours Larry. Keep killing it, and we'll see everything you need. You we need you mad out there. I'll keep working on, and I'll stay mad. All right, so you guys see you after well, we'll be back next week everybody see.