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What you're telling me is that music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of bodarous extras ever assembled in the history of doubtless 1974198792972 thousand. Whatever we want to call this, it's all just the same thing over and over. We can't. Help ourselves, I say, when we. Sell, hey, I say when we sell. And we're live. I'm like Episode 10, Gentlemen, Lady Morgan. Bouchard. We're double digits. Thanks for having me. Well, thank you for putting up with the delay here. A little miscommunication on the scheduling side, but no big deal. We've got, we've got a lot to talk about kids. My kids are, yeah, or in the background. They're opening the door, they're out. Don't worry. It's a It's great to see. You know, bitcoiners love building big families. Run this for the long haul. Really getting back to to. Congratulations on on the new child and the new addition. Thank you. Yeah, we're a big family of five now, so. As a feel the the transition from 1:00 to 2:00 is pretty big. House 2:00 to 3:00, Honestly, one to two is the hardest thing. Two to three is like, it's nothing. You're already like you're already outnumbered with the one to two thing and you have to split your time. I'll never forget this pier and I wanted to go out for our anniversary. It was like it was a big anniversary and I should know which one it was, but I can't do the math right now in my head. I still have baby brain going, but we we got two babysitters when we went out because we couldn't figure out how to do 2 kids. And so like the two babysitters showed up and they were like, what? Where are you? Like, where are you here? You know, we're like, we can't do two kids, So we thought we needed two babysitters for our two kids. And now, like with three, it's whatever you third, baby. You do. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. I'm very curious about this. I wanna learn more about what's the difference from 1:00 to 2:00 and 2:00 to 3:00. As a new parent, I need to get my head right for. I think honestly, yeah, it's just that you are so focused on one human being and making sure that one human being has everything that they need that when you add a second one into the mix because you've and this happens pretty much to every first born child, which is I think why first born children in general have a lot in common and like their temperament and so forth. It's because parents are we have a lot of anxiety with our first kid because it's our first and then also you don't have anyone else to focus on. So it's the anxiety plus the fact that you're like honed in on that one child that then that child then demands additional attention from you as a parent. And then when you throw a second child into the mix, it's actually, I think healthy for the first child, right? Because the first child now, while their world is initially shattered, they soon learn that hey, like, the world doesn't revolve around me. There are other people in the on this planet, and it's good for the first child. But as a parent, you're like, ah, I used to direct all of my attention in this One Direction and now I have to, you know, split it between 2:00 and your second child. Definitely doesn't get the same anxiety and attention that the first child got, probably for for better, not for worse. So that's my take on it at least. I agreed. Our youngest with our oldest. He would. We had that anxiety that that coddling, if you will, the 2nd. He's like a year old now. He's like, yeah, yeah, you can eat a blueberry off the ground. You're gonna be fine. Yeah that that makes a lot of sense. I you know you're you're parent and there's I'm starting to have this like rule I don't know how much my wife can hang out with Marty's wife because you know they they hang out and then like the craption start to show show up and there's there's no shortage of new things that have been created for like babies and things that like revolve and churn and you strap them down. And so she's spent all this money on stuff. And I'm like, looking at it. I'm like, I guess this is like, what you need. You know, you're the mother, whatever. And my mom comes over and she's asleep. It's like her first time to get to, like, rest. And so my mom's like, carrying the baby and she's like, yeah, I need to go. He's a restaurant or whatever. I was like, do you want me to take the baby? She's like, no, no, no, it's OK. And she literally stuffs like my son between 2 cushions in the couch and puts a blanket over him. And I'm like, I don't know if this is like, what she would approve because I've heard of, like, you know, the SIDS and all this stuff. The baby seemed content. She seemed fine. And she's had four kids. And I was like, I guess we can do this, but just don't let my wife. It was, yeah, it was very pro movie because I just like that's all I do now and just like stuff them in the couch. The grandmother knows the grandmother's had four. She's been through the ringer. Hopefully that's your your child's first memory. They they come to consciousness stuffed in some couch cushions. It's fun, It's fun. Another difference from 1:00 to 2:00 is like the schedules. Like our, our youngest started teething last month. So he's been up in the middle of the night quite often and he got all of his teeth at once. So it's been like a a month long process. Yeah. The other thing I noticed about when you have subsequent children is that so your first, when your first is born, right. Your life revolves around your first born. And then when your second is born, your life still revolves around your first born. So your second born is just like dragged along to all these things that your first born is doing. And then when your third is born, you're just like, all right. Well, the other one was being dragged, so I guess we'll just drag you too. But now the third, it's life is being revolved. It's like has to follow what the the other two are doing too. So it's just, yeah, the schedule just gets more and more hectic for sure. It's fun, though. It's worth it. It is fun. It's totally worth it. And they're complete joy. And my kids are just, oh, I just love them. They're amazing. Yeah, Maybe it's a good segue into introducing you, Morgan, and what you do, because I think what you do really helps people ensure that their families have security financially specifically, and really planning not only your children's lives, their schedules, but how you're going to take care of them, feed them. Pay for their education, all that jazz? Yeah, for sure. So I'm not a full time mom. I wish sometimes I were, but I definitely love what I do for a living as well. I have a financial planning practice called Origin Wealth Advisors. It's nine years old now. I will be 9 next week actually, and I mostly deal with high net worth clients and at this point predominantly people who have been in Bitcoin for quite a while. I would say on average our clients have been in Bitcoin anywhere between probably two and seven years. So we've got like a wide range of people of who of who's come in. And it's really just what I found is that Bitcoin is itself is not a financial plan. It's a really great addition to to a financial plan and it can really obviously help clients stay for the future and be confident that their money will be there when they need it. But it's not the only thing that matters when it comes to financial planning. There are other aspects that are important to people in their lives. And and it's it's a hard message I think for Bitcoiners because for most Bitcoiners they just think, all right, I just buy Bitcoin and then I don't have to worry about it. But what we found is that clients come in after they've already owned Bitcoin and they're realizing that there are other aspects of their life that they want to own and make sure that they're saving appropriately or taking advantage of different tax vehicles or planning their inheritances properly or estate planning other aspects to it. And just taking advantage of every aspect of of their financial world and most importantly making sure that they're living a fulfilling life. I think a lot of the time we don't focus so much on that. We focus on OK, once we have all the money, we'll get there and we'll know what we want to do with it rather than maybe taking some time at the beginning to to plan a little bit better where we want to go. So we help clients with all. This with the large roster of Bitcoin clients. Trying to figure out how to frame this delicately, but I'll just come out and say like is your client base somewhat of like a new, well rich client base that has come into wealth rather suddenly and just trying to figure out how to deal with all that. I have some of that and I have some older money as well. My business originally was actually beneficiaries of trust, so otherwise known as trust on kids. And so I definitely, I I deal with both crowds, both the new borish and the old rich. And you know, everyone really has something in common. And I would say the number one thing is that whether you have had money for a long time or you're newly rich, right? Either you are on the side of where you spend more money and you probably should be, or you're on the side where you compulsively save. And we generally don't have people that sort of fall in the middle, which I find sort of interesting about. The behavioral aspect of it is that like people don't necessarily. It's not necessarily correlated with how you grew up in respect to money. It's just more about how you think about money and how you're using it on a regular basis. And I think that a lot of the time, people like to think that their past plays a lot into how they interact with money in the present and also in the future. And what we've seen, at least anecdotally from the handful of clients that I've dealt with over the last decade, is that that's actually not necessarily true. And I think that that's good news for people because what that does mean is that, like, humans can change and that we can implement the behavior that we want to implement, assuming that we're willing to do the work to do. So yeah. Jesse, do you want to say something? Well, it's interesting to hear it frame that way because I've I've definitely thought of my compulsive savings side as as hard and fast. But yeah, of course that makes sense that that's not necessarily the case. It's hard to beat the It's hard to beat the opportunity cost of holding Bitcoin, though it sure is. You know, you would think too, cuz I know that one of the reasons why we have inflation right in our in our environment or economic environment is that they want to incentivize people to spend. And people love to spend their money over like time and time again. People do love to spend their money. And I think one of the interesting things about Bitcoin is that Bitcoin is a way for people to compulsively spend their money in one way or another, even though it's technically savings, right? And I would consider it savings, obviously. But the habits that I've seen Bitcoiners have around saving Bitcoin is similar to what people do when they compulsively spend. Like some, like some of my Bitcoin our clients, they'll just like they just compulsively will buy Bitcoin to the point where they realize they've overbought, right. And then we're in a situation where, hey, we have to pay taxes as a business owner or, you know, we actually have to put food on our table or all sorts of other things. And they're like holding on dearly to the Bitcoin that they don't want to sell. It's an interesting thing, and you can compare it to people who you don't compulsively spend on a credit card. Obviously that's way worse of a situation and you can get yourself into a really complicated financial situation doing that and it's much harder to unwind. But the like, the anxiety and the like, the stress around undoing that, Like from a Bitcoin perspective, I actually have seen bitcoiners be like, have meltdowns over selling their Bitcoin more often than me. When I tell a client like, hey, you can't use your credit card, they're much less, they're much more likely to admit that, like that's an issue, You know that they shouldn't be overspending on their credit card rather than over buying Bitcoin. Love it it It's the classic Marshmallow problem that, like Bitcoin, presents This thing where I'm a two marshmallow kid. You know, the classic marshmallow test of I would wait happily however long was necessary to get the two marshmallows rather than the one. And Bitcoin, in my mind, is still a Marshmallow test, but it's a 10 Marshmallow reward at the end. It's hard to it's hard to break that. But I'm sure I fit right cleanly into the psychology that you see with those compulsive save Bitcoin savers. So what you're saying is you have the check engine light on on your car right now, yeah? In my in my, I downgraded from a nice Jeep Wrangler to a $2000 Toyota Camry from 2002 or whatever it is. There you go. I think they're like, I don't know if this is thinking too much into it, but it's like basically one's A conscious version of getting rid of a bad money and the other one's A subconscious version of getting rid of a bad money, right? Like the fair way of looking at it. Right. Like they're just getting out of it, cuz they have no concept of like, well, why am I holding this? I know inherently like it instinctually that it's reducing value. I'd rather have this. And then on the other side, you're consciously saying, why am I holding these dollars? I want this other asset all the way to the point where the check engine is negative. And you've got to sell, but you're willing to deal with that because it's the opportunity cost. That was just what came to mind when you mentioned that you basically see compulsive on both sides. It kind of makes. Yeah, for sure. It's like I honestly, I see bitcoiners as like, you know, the what was that experiment where they have the rats like tapping for the pellets. Bitcoiners are kind of like that. Honestly, I feel like I'm gonna get a lot of Flack for this on Twitter, but we really are. I mean, I include myself in that. It's like when you have, when you have a savings and you're ready to go buy bitcoins like we're almost like we're just sitting there tapping and like trying to get more and more Bitcoin and interacting on Twitter like that too. Like you know I would just it's it's a good it's actually, it is a good positive feedback loop though, right. It's not something that we currently have in our economic environment where you're living in the Fiat world, right. You you don't have anything that's positive in that loop. You can get an obviously into a much more negative loop of of hitting the same thing for the pellets in the Fiat world, right? But it ends up in financial ruin, not in financial gains. So it's just an interesting juxtaposition of the two. Yeah, I think that's why we're we're ill equipped. There's never been any any drug like this of yeah, I want to keep hitting that lover because it's it's more marshmallows and we're ill equipped for for checking ourselves and recognizing. OK, well that has to be balanced with the reality of life. And I mean it this brings up a good time to talk about like obviously Bitcoin has been an emerging asset over the last 15 years that is obviously affected your business, Morgan. Like what is the emergence of Bitcoin done in terms of like how you view financial planning for individuals that hold Bitcoin on their individual balance sheets and and what in your mind is the best strategy to strategically approach? Wealth management, if you're going to have Bitcoin be a large percentage of your wealth, yeah. So I've been advising now on Bitcoin since 2016 and the landscape has significantly changed, I would say, over the last, you know, what's called seven years since I've started advising on it, For instance, in 2016, it was kind of hush hush. Whenever I talk to my compliance consultant about it, she was like, well, if somebody asks you about it, you can, you know, you can talk to them, but, you know, don't make a big deal about it, don't advertise that you're doing anything in it. And so that was just sort of the, the written rule at the time. And then slowly, like because I started becoming more confident just talking to clients about it, I just sort of went on a limb and asked for forgiveness. Later when clients would ask me about gold, I would just, I would just bring up Bitcoin instead and just say, hey, what have you thought about this instead of gold or maybe doing a gold and Bitcoin allocation? So that would be considered more of a solicitation in our business, which there are rules around solicitation for sure. And so the soliciting part of it was where I thought maybe I would get into trouble. But the SEC then had come out about the fact that bitcoins A commodity. So it's like, you know, I can talk to a client about buying bananas or orange juice, right? Like, you know, it's, it's a commodity like anything else. So once that happened, I felt a lot more confident about being public about my views and also just coming out to clients and saying, hey, have you heard about this thing? And so for my original client base, it wasn't a Bitcoin client base. It was just, you know, regular people who are looking for financial planning, who want good advice and they would come to us and we would help them. And then it became a portion of people's portfolios as early as 2016. We started adding to more portfolios in 2017 and 2018. There was a lull in 2019 because of how far the price that sort of gone down and there wasn't, I wasn't getting a much traction from clients, but in 2020 we just allocated across the board to GB TC in client portfolios using discretion with clients that we couldn't get on board. I tried my best and I've always had a like somewhere between 30 and 40 clients on board, so or just in my practice in general. And so like we were able to get a bunch of people to actually own Bitcoin and then from there we decided okay, we're going to do GB TC. Once we put people in GB TC, it actually, I was sort of surprised, opened up the door to conversation for me. I thought, okay, this is just going to be what they hold and that kind of stinks. This isn't really what I wanted them to do and obviously it's like a hardcore bitcoiner myself. I have always wanted my clients to hold their own keys and do it the right way. But you know, I felt like it was more important for them to actually hold the asset class itself than it was for them to not be involved. And so that that's how GB TC did end up in client portfolios. But the most surprising reaction was that clients, once they had it in there and they start to experience the volatility that they became more comfortable with it and they were actually much more willing to hold their own keys. And so from there, we were able to really convert many clients actually to being bitcoiners and to actually holding their own keys. We have very few at this point. I think I think off the top of my head, I maybe have two clients left who actually hold GB TC and I've got 42 clients in my practice. So I mean, we had a pretty high conversion rate of basically being able to get people to hold their own keys. And we got most of my clients set up on either a single CIG or a multi CIG solution. So everyone is either holding their own keys through Unchained capital or they're just holding a single CIG hardware wallet. And we've had them take precautions about where they hold it and what they're doing with it. We check in regularly for key checks and other things to make sure they're holding these things properly. And so I'm giving you all this back story because I feel like from an financial advisor perspective, a lot of the time what financial advisors think is, oh, well, I'll just get them allocated to this position and then we won't really have to do anything about it ever again. And what I found is that there's just a lot of things that go into Bitcoin in general. I mean maybe for like a very hardcore bitcoiner has been involved for a long time and feels very secure about how they store their keys and everything else and they've gotten their wife on board. They don't really need that ancillary services around their Bitcoin. But for most, that's not necessarily the case. Even if like the husband is the hardcore Bitcoin or the wife is probably not and she's probably not very comfortable with how the keys are being held. And so at the very least, as an advisor, there are services around what you could do for a client there. So even if you have a client come in who's 100% Bitcoin only, there's still financial advisory services that could be possible there just because maybe the wife's not on board or maybe they need like some sort of inheritance plan or have how they're going to pass this Bitcoin. Something's going to happen to them. Maybe they need trust services, right? There's all sorts of other things that go into financial planning that aren't necessarily thought about because in a Bitcoin world, we think that Bitcoin fixes all of these things. But there are some things in the rules that aren't necessarily broken. They just need to be applied to the Bitcoin world. Yeah, it's a whole new. Yeah. I mean, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, you got. It's super fascinating, I think. You're you're you're insanely fascinating because you're living in both sides of like, you're the farthest spectrums. Like we're kind of playing in the middle and you think about like the stuff we did and on chain or on ramp, like there's folks that are kind of bridging. But I feel like Ras and Fas are on the very far edge of, you know, starting to think about the asset and feel comfortable. And then you're talking about like clicking the rat button and understanding both sides, which which is cool. It's also like a more of, just like a. Overarching view of like the landscape of markets or anything in the traditional world, It's like if you have an expertise in the traditional world like you have in being a financial advisor and then understood Bitcoin there that confluence of like 2 separate things really. There's like magic and opportunity there and we see this time and time again. So it's just cool to see that like come together, but I guess like where where I'm curious or is I guess there's a, there's a bunch like the first one you mentioned on chain and then single sig. One of the big things that we've seen and historically for years is that like well Fas or Ras want to offer the ability to buy BTC outside of GBTC. The reason why they went into GBTC was it was very easy to report. They have it in a book of business and like my understanding is for financial advisors, they really care about the reporting and being able to bill and have it tie into their whole kind of like portfolio tracking. How have you been able to to manage that and like what would you, how do you see that market like churning? Is there anybody else doing something like that that lets individuals get access, spot exposure and maybe they don't hold their keys or they hold some subset but also ties into making it easy for F A's wealth managers to do this because my understand it's been very like clunky and that's part of if they're even interested, it's just too hard and then they can't bill on it. So the incentives aren't there. Yeah, it's super clunky. I think it's completely clunky. I think the reason why I'm able to do this is because, like, I love Bitcoin. I want to help my clients, right? I think that my fiduciary duty obligates me to get clients into Bitcoin. And not only does it obligate me to do so, but it also obligates me to help them hold it the right way if they're ready, willing and able. And so like, I don't. I don't. I don't like to patronize my clients either. So in my mind, the people who work with me, they're smart people. They are doing their jobs very, very well. They don't have time generally to also be doing what I do for a living. It's not necessarily that they couldn't figure out what they needed to do. Most of them can. A lot of them just literally don't have the time to do it because they're very busy. They've they're family people. They've got lots of kids. They've got, you know, businesses that they're running or they are working for, you know, large companies. And they're giving their heart and soul to those places. And they also want to make sure that they have time to be with their family and do other things that they like and mow their lawn right. They don't want to necessarily be thinking about their finances all the time. And then plus, if you're adding Bitcoin into portfolios, right, husband and wife need to be on board. And a lot of the times, it's a lot easier to get the husband on board and a lot harder to get the wife on board. Or if you've got the wife on board, they might still not feel totally technologically savvy about all these things. And so one of the reasons why. Like they want to work with an advisor like me, right? Is because we're able to to hand hold and help them through all these aspects of their financial planning instances that they wouldn't necessarily, they don't necessarily want to even be doing on their own. They want to offload the things that they find unpleasant or the things that they just don't have the time to do. And the problem here, right, is that in the world that we live in right now, we're not far enough ahead in the Bitcoin world where financial advisors can just, you know. Actively allocate clients to an easy, you know, collaborative custody solution where the the advisor can bill on it very easily and can maybe hold a key for a client, which is definitely something that we would be wanting to do for clients. We've had a lot of clients ask, hey, like I don't necessarily feel that confident about holding 2 keys. I want to hold one. I feel good about holding one, but I if you held one and Unchained held the other, like I'd feel a lot better about that. That way, you know, if I lose mine, I haven't lost all my Bitcoin. And so for the average advisor, like this is simply not possible. It's possible in my practice because I love Bitcoin and I'm willing to do it. And two, because we charge high enough fees where we can actually spend time with clients working on these things. The average advisor is probably charging less than I am. They're probably charging an assets under management fee rather than a flat fee based on net worth, which is how we do it in our practice. And so we have the ability to charge on something like Bitcoin without it actually being included in a client's, you know, assets that we actually manage. And so from that perspective, it's been easy because there's no conflict of interest for me, right? If I were to be an advisor who charges an assets under management fee, then what would happen is that if I were going to set a client up with a single cigarette multisix solution and it wasn't under my management, quote UN quote, what I'd be doing is now cutting my own fee to have the client put money into Bitcoin. And while that would be a fiduciary obligation that I would have as an advisor, I would have a hard time doing it if I was also being paid significantly less. After also devoting a lot of time getting a client set up to and into a multi 6 solution or a single six solution. So the incentives are just not aligned the way that advisors are currently mostly charging. That's not necessarily the case for for all advisors, but I would still say in the marketplace right now most advisors are definitely charging an assets under management fee and not a flat fee or a flat fee based on net worth. There are a lot of. Other ways, I mean there are some advisors who are doing subscription plans or flat fees like I do or hourly planning, in which case it wouldn't matter whether or not a client held it in GB, TC or if a client held it in single state from just from a billing perspective. And so I think that the first thing is either figuring out a way to get clients like the way that advisors get paid versus how clients can hold Bitcoin get that aligned. So either creating a product or an advisor can actually charge on it. A solution for that would be a collaborative custody product where like the the advisor actually holds one key, the client holds one key, another custodian holds a third key. And that the advisor and the custodian are able to maybe sign off on microtransactions to get the advisor paid would probably be a good way of doing it I would think or advisor switching to flat fee models. And so I think right now where it stands, if an advisor wants to do what I'm doing, they have to switch to a flat fee model because the collaborative custody products are just not there yet. For us to be doing what we want to be doing. Yeah, yeah, I've. I've never, I mean, we're gonna add you on TFTC once. That was years ago. But like walking through the problems that you guys have as financial advisors, managing clients, Bitcoin is extremely fascinating, #1, but also encouraging when you think about the opportunities to actually innovate in this particular space and obviously. You're on the tip of the spear as an advisor, really innovating in this space and just thinking of how much needs to be built to make this viable and on board as many people as possible. People may look at it with the glass half empty, like it's not there yet, but I'm looking at it like, wow, there's a lot of opportunity to build a lot of really cool tools here. There's a ton of opportunity. I think the other thing to notice about Bitcoin, I mean it's really hard to make money in Bitcoin. I think that this is not often talked about enough. It's extremely hard to make money in Bitcoin unless you're buying Bitcoin. And so that's and that's all well and good, that's that I think is actually it's a plus about Bitcoin. But it also makes it difficult is if you want to be a business around Bitcoin, right of figuring out the right way to be Bitcoin only which is what we all are here to be doing right, but also being able to earn a living doing. And so like I see, I see a lot of opportunity for that in financial planning. Just because I mean maybe that's just the the world that I come from but I I also I can see I see why you know these other coins and other things have popped up as well and why if I other advisors maybe have been lured into that or why other you know why these scams and all coins have have come up and it's just because people literally have trouble making money in the space. But the the thing to I think that a lot of people in the Bitcoin community need to recognize is that the entire system itself is not broken. There are a lot of parts of the system that currently exists that are worth taking, like mentioning and taking note of and working from there to build products and solutions on top of that. That would be like ancillary services around Bitcoin that where you would actually have a viable business model and where people would actually be able to make money in Bitcoin doing the thing that they want to do if they just thought a little bit outside of the box about what people needed. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Something I think about a lot. It's like we're not recreating the wheel we're just repurposing it and we're just switching slightly and it's a lot of the stuff we're working on and like it. I've thought for the next 10 years the 1st order of any business is education and then the 2nd order is whatever the product is because there's we're so far from like helping people understand you know this is different Marty you reference like the collaborative custody or like innovative products. I would maybe take a step back and and Morgan like not challenge but think through like. The majority of advisors still don't even know the difference between Bitcoin and Solana. And so that like while there is an appetite, I think it exists and you've carved out a great niche on like holding the keys. And I think probably the best way and it's very like innovative in its sense of helping the client or TBD, like if you hold the key, the client holds the key and a third party holds the key. But I think going even backwards, it's like 1 the incentive alignment is important because that's that drives everything. But then two, helping the like them understand you know one, the difference between the different like crypto currencies. But then also what are the better forms or products that they can feel good and confident that A like their client is not going to get rugged and B that they'll be able to hold longterm. So the incentives are there that it appreciates. An example of this was Gemini and the earned product where it's my understanding a lot of advisors leverage that product and they got, you know, the, the shiny object of parking the dollar, seeing the yield and saying oh, so you're ready and you know Geminis are custodian, let's park it there. And so it's just like so much even before the custody gets figured out, which is definitely important. It's like the difference between understanding Bitcoin versus the other assets, because there's also that understanding the the FAA landscape, at least the way I understand is that they talk about rebalancing and portfolio diversification, which is a standard practice across, you know, traditional, you know, equity bonds. So can you maybe like talk about that? Because I feel like we're jumping ahead to like better forms of custody, which I think makes sense. But the reality is there's, you know, 10s of trillions of dollars that our eyes manage what they don't even necessarily know. What's the right cryptocurrency to buy and where to buy it? So I think it's unrealistic to expect that all advisors are going to become Bitcoin only, as much as I would love that to be the reality. That's just not the case in general in what's going on in the financial advisor space in general. So to put into perspective, right, it's it's pretty well known at this point that low cost ETF style index style portfolios work better than these actively managed portfolios. And that's just because there's a lot of, there's a lot of issues with just, you know, picking stocks and making sure that you're consistently picking the right stocks over time, right. It's very difficult, has to do. What we found over time is that. Managers in general underperform the market and managers that outperform the market, right. They don't tend to persist over long periods of time. And yes, they're always going to be those outliers, right, that are great and that'll be rock stars. But by the time the retail investor is able to get into that portfolio, it's usually, you know, it's, it's usually the the worst possible time for them. And so if you look at though what the average financial advisor is doing, not all of them are doing are allocating their clients to let's say these low cost index. Style ETF portfolios, some of these advisors are still using a lot of these actively managed mutual funds that cost significantly less and or sorry cost significantly more than a low cost ETF and are underperforming the market and yet they still continue to use them. And so I think from like from your perspective, right as like. Offering this product of on ramp or just the just the market perspective in general of like when will advisors accept that Bitcoin is the only one and there is no alternative and there is no second best, right. I think it's unrealistic to ever expect that the entire space will be there. That said though, right, like if we're comparing it to let's say the low cost ETF model 20 years ago that was not a thing. People didn't use low cost index style investments even though they were available. It was a very small percentage of financial advisors that did use that. Now it's this very significant portion of financial advisors that are using things like that. And it would be an advisor actually has to explain themselves when they're starting to pick, actively manage mutual funds and so forth to put into client portfolios. They have to explain why it is that they're using those things and clients are much more up on what they should and shouldn't be holding. And so I think if we use this as sort of a metaphor of how it's going to happen in the Bitcoin space. Yeah, I mean, I think it's one of those things where bitcoins, 80% of the market cap right of of the whole crypto space. Some advisors are not going to want to take a position on it and they're probably going to want to allocate to a diversified portfolio and they're probably going to market weight, cap weight it because that's what they always do, in which case they'll have clients end up in these these portfolios that are 80% Bitcoin. That's at least where I see this going, when advisors actually accept that this is something that they're going to put into client portfolios. I think that if an ETF does get approved, a Bitcoin ETF, then it'll be sort of a gates open for financial advisors, especially in these larger firms where they've been having compliance issues of getting things approved. I'm like, I'm much more lucky in the regard that, like I've been a single person shop for many years. I have two employees who work for me. I've had a compliance consultant who works with, who's worked with me for the last decade, right. But she doesn't. She's not the compliance department. In my firm I'm compliance. So at the end of the day, if I say we're going to do something, we do it right. And if later on we realize that that's not the right thing that we should have been doing from a compliance perspective, then we fix it. But we basically, like I took my firm full steam ahead with Bitcoin before we really had the A OK, from really any state regulators. And once we were examined by the state regulator, which is A, which is the thing that happens with RA is it's not like, you know, they singled me out or anything like that. They do it regularly for all advisors. It wasn't a thing. They didn't, you know, they weren't asking me a lot of questions about Bitcoin. They weren't curious as to why these were in client portfolios. They weren't. They didn't write any comment letters saying anything negative about what we were doing. And so I think from that perspective, right, it's that advisors. I think we often tout that advisors need to be more educated in order to be allocated. And that's true in some regards. But the education is out there. There are a lot of people doing a lot of good education and I think of advisors just took, you know, one or two minutes to try to find some of these things, right. They would start going down the rabbit holes themselves. And I think that that is going to happen because the longer the Bitcoin is around, right, the the more that this becomes something that people start recognizing. And we've seen that happen every single wave. It's it's no different for advisors than it is for anybody else who's getting interested in Bitcoin, right. Every time that there is a, you know, a rise in the price, it's basically the market saying, oh, like what's going on here, We want to be interested in this. And it gets advisors interested too. And even if they're not interested on the way up, if it doesn't, you know, go to 0 on the way down, which it hasn't done over the last 15 years then. You know, advisors are like okay. This thing is going to stay around and I've seen that happen every single time, right. We get more and more advisors coming in after every single cycle because it's not going away and they're realizing that this is something that they have to hold in client portfolios. So to get back to circle back to what we were talking about originally, I would say if you build it, they will come, right. Like the other problem that we have right now in the space and what advisors have is that. Even if they are orange filled and they want to help clients do this, they have no real way of actually allocating clients do this. So while like yes, the education piece is not totally there the the services that advisors need to actually get their clients allocated aren't there either. So even if they want to it's it's simply not a, it's not a good way, it's not a seamless way of getting clients invested the way that they're able to do it basically and everything else right now. So I think that there there are multiple problems for sure. And that all need to be addressed, no. And that just to piggyback off that, I appreciate you running through that. I think the two things that are interesting about this market that's different is the education. When you think about this is more of just like having a conversation, trying to work through it in my head. And I think as we think about our approach or just in general Bitcoin approach to offering services is that the education most of the time in the market is not a zero in the sense that you know if an FA or somebody goes in and crypto and they allocate versus you know just because the volatility is so extreme and digital assets you know as we've seen the past 12 to 18 months. But then the core about the product offering that you mentioned this I think before we started recording and also while we're recording about the progression from going into a GB TC which we all understand is you know not a good product it's paper BTC and then the education going over into you know spot. And the idea is that over the the time or the the client's journey that a decent portion as the education, you know, proliferates and they understand they want to take possession And the products you are referencing, even the ETF, well, it's passive. It won't allow for that. And so like, I think my understanding is like the Sma's exist, but is there anything in the market right now that you reference like it needs to be built? Like how would somebody get exposure in the way that gives the optionality that's low cost easy or as low cost as possible with Also when that person gets educated, they can actually take delivery versus it's like Oh well you have exposure but but now you have a 30% taxable event or whatever the taxable event bracket they're in when they want to sell. Yeah. I mean, I think you're referencing to the product that y'all are building, right? Just a light show. Just a light show. Honestly, I'm really. I'm enjoying your perspective of the market because you understand both sides of like what the landscape looks like from the Bitcoin side and exactly what people need where it's very hard, it's such an ambiguous. It's been this for years for me personally talking with FAS wealth managers because it's like you you mentioned there's the fixed cost or there's percentage base and then what they need in reporting and and then also how they look at assets and the brand or who they're partnering with. And it's all just like this kind of like picture that isn't fully there and it's starting to come together of like, OK, what's important to you, what's important to people, what are the products that they need. And then ultimately you said like the answer to the end of the test is that they actually need to take possession at a certain point or they they're going to want that optionality. And so I'm just like actually trying to figure out like what are the things that exist today. And it sounds like there's not many, but one of them would be like some form of like SMA which is effectively where the clients are segregate assets but they hold spot, they don't hold paper exposure security. That's, that's not what I actually would want. So what I would want would be a a collaborative custody product which would basically be where the client holds one key, advisor holds one key and a third party custodian holds one key. And the reason why you want to do it this way and not in an SMA. So an SMA would require that you actually had a custodian and even on the back end you had three different custodians, right? It's still. Depending on the custodians that you have, I mean it might be an issue, right? It might be, it might be problematic, especially what we've seen happen with custodians, right. Prime trust comes to mind most recently of having having issues and and you know misappropriating client funds. And I get that if it's in a multisix solution that's a lot less likely to happen. But if two of the three were failing, they could potentially collude right and and move assets off. And so I would say that what an advisor would want if they knew. That this existed would be that they were one of the keys and that they were, they were educated in how they should hold it and how to create pads on, let's say a master key and store that properly and have their clients actually hold the one key and then have a third party custodian. And the reason why you would want to do this this way is because it actually eliminates all the issues that third party custodians have with when clients want to move money. So the person who's closest to the client is always going to be the advisor. The advisor knows the client's voice. They know the client's number, They know when the client is sending a weird e-mail, They know when somebody is trying to scam their client, right? Like we've seen this happen in elderly issues where where there's elder abuse or where somebody comes in, they try to take advantage of an elderly person who has some sort of dementia, right? We're not seeing this kind of stuff yet in Bitcoin because Bitcoin still so new, but that's not necessarily going to be the case going down the road, right? The longer this thing exists, the more that the problems that currently happen in financial advisories, it's settings or just in financial settings in general are going to perforate into the Bitcoin world. And so you want to have somebody who's there who's able to sign for transactions with the client, right, Or with the other custodian who actually knows that client and knows what's going on in that person's situation. And so there's not a product out there right now. Like if I if I were going to create one, this is what I would create. I would literally create it where advisors had an easy way of holding one key and they had an easy way of like having a path be on that one key and knew how to set that up. And then had their own portal with that one key where they can, you know, where they can cheat key check their one key where they could sign for a client through their portal and not actually have to have access to a client's log in. Because that's there's all sorts of issues around that that that it really it gets into custody issues. If you have access to a client's log in that I don't want to get into a whole compliance discussion and where the client actually practices withholding this, one key right is the other thing, right? The the more that they get comfortable holding that one key, the more likely they'll be willing to hold the two keys. In which case if they, if they're holding two out of three, they have control of their own money. And that's the whole point of this experiment, I would say, is that you want the client to actually be able to take custody of their own money and be able to do what they're going to do with their own money. And I think that in some regards that actually does terrify advisors because we relinquish a lot of control right when we are giving up that second key to them. But in the end, but in other ways, right? It'll be freeing for advisors to know that their clients are keeping like keeping good track of their own money, which is what they're supposed to be doing from the beginning. And so when you say the advisor holds that case, so it's like, is it 1 master key, like an HD wallet and then they just use that key for all their clients with different different branches. Yeah, exactly. And like obviously the client would have to be sorry, the advisor would have to be well up on storing their seed phrase and their and their master key separately, right. And they would be doing their own key checks and they would need to know how to do all these things. There's some education around that for sure. And so I think we're early in the regard of like if I were to release this product now, I mean I know maybe 5 or 10 advisors who would want this, right. So it's still very, very early of who's in the space and who's doing it. But I I do really. I have this build it. If you build it, they will come attitude about it. Because I I've talked to other advisors who they are on board and they just, they don't have a realistic way of allocating people to Bitcoin. And so they're just gonna wait for the ETF and they know that that's not the right solution. Yeah. I mean I anchored to where I was going is basically like. The, the where you're at is I think where we all want everybody to be in and holding the keys and it's like what are the products. It's all like order of operations on the comfortability and it starts with you know digital assets or you know crypto and it's part of the portfolio. And then why is it Bitcoin? And then why is it a better product and paper And then why do you want better forms of custody And then hey, I want interesting to hold the key and I personally don't think it's like realistic. You mentioned 10 people like where people are going to want to hold the key at least today in the same way people don't hold their own key. It's like. It's very scary when they hear cryptographic material and all that stuff and we're all here to dispel that. But that's that was like the underlying asking and the question of like what are the other ways or how do we like, get them to understand there is like this new form of custody. There's new form, there's better forms of custody. There's forms of Bitcoin exposure that aren't paper so that they can get like at least this middle part on the way to holding the key and and your vision of how F A's should work. That was mainly like the idea because I I think you're right. I just don't think, I think we're so far off from like I've on boarded thousands of people some personally and then you know within hiring A-Team and billions of dollars to hold in their two keys. And the majority of them, you know, or I would say large percentage actually never deposited BTC in the vaults because they were just you know, looking at firmware updates, integrations, sending the transaction we made they probably never had before because they would have it sitting on an exchange. And so it was a subset of that that actually like leveraged it. And so to see like that progression is partially why we're doing what we're doing is because there was part of the questions in Jesse's thread of what are the things that people, you know, either you agree with or people all agree with that you disagree with. And I personally I'm going to get chassis for this, but I personally don't think. That it's right to say everybody wants shit holder keys, nor will they end up all holding their keys 10 years from now or when bitcoins money. And I say that specifically from going through the process and how scary it is and how unwilling, especially the larger amount of capital individual holds, the more that they're looking at you like F you. Why are you making me do this? Why should I have to deal with cryptographic material? And then it gets even insane when somebody's allocating a billion dollars via an endowment. Bomb. So anyway, that's where a lot of the root of, like some of the conversation comes from. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's why if you've got a multi 6 solution and the client is only holding one key, they don't really have custody. And so they could literally do whatever they want with that key, right. They can keep it in a desk door. If they're not being very creative, they could, you know, use it in their kitchen. They could toss it around with their kids, right. It doesn't really matter, even if they've got billions of dollars on that key, what they do with it. Obviously we hope that they take, you know, the pride and that they like, you know, they find a good place for it and that they store their seed card correctly, right. But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what they do with that key. If the advisor holds one and the, you know, and a third party custodian holds the other. Because they know that the advisor, as long as the advisor is well educated on how to hold the key and they're taking proper care of their key, right then everything. And also that the custodian is taking proper care of their key, that the client is going to be fine. And I think that it's unrealistic though also to say that clients wouldn't want to do something like that. The more we've given clients access to their keys, the happier we've found that they've become. With the exception of very small handful of my clients, I would say most people are happier to actually have their keys to see how they work to sign transactions. Basically when we get clients set up on either single or multi sig, what we do is we have a long meeting with them about it. We help them set up their wallet. We talk about like the way that they're supposed to store both the C card and and the hardware wallet itself. We send a very small transaction to the hardware wallet, right? We have them do it. Obviously we don't do it. We don't have to have access to their Bitcoin, but we hand hold them. We go on to the exchange with them and we have them send a small amount from the exchange to the hardware wallet. Then we have them send it back to the exchange because they have to know how to use the key, right? It's not just sending it to the key it's also sending it back. And when they actually, I've seen this over and over again, when they do the second transaction where they sending it from the key back to the exchange, it's when a light bulb goes off in their head and they're like oh this is how it works, this is so cool. Like up into that moment it was all this play funny money that they didn't really know what was going on. The second they're actually really signing for a transaction, not just moving money like copy pasting an address and sending it from their computer to the hardware wallet. What they're actually using the hardware wallet, it clicks in their head about. This is really exciting. This is something that I want to take ownership of and something that I want to do. And from there then obviously they go and they send the right, they send the whole thing back. And the reason why we do it that way is a we don't want the client like accidentally sending all of their money to the wrong location. That would be a really big problem. So we have them send a small amount there first to confirm that they're using the the right address. And 2nd we do it back to also make sure that the path back is OK. But also just to give them the experience of using Bitcoin, right, which is the whole point of this thing to begin with, right? It's money. It's supposed to be something that people use. It's not supposed to be something that's locked up in the ETF or locked up in some sort of product that they never touch. And so it it's just giving the client the hands on experience. And the problem I see in the advisor space is that most practices aren't run like mine. Most practices don't have, you know, up to 50 clients in them and they're not. They can't, you know, spend the amount of time that they need to spend educating their client on all these steps. A lot of practices have 102 hundred 300 clients in there, right? And they're seeing them maybe twice a year for 1/2 hour. And so it makes it really difficult obviously to do the Bitcoin education that you need to do if you're running a practice right that like that. And so I like, I I mean I see it just as like it's the the space itself needs to evolve, right. Clients advisors need to start offering the the solutions that clients want to have and clients need to start being, I guess, OK, with the fact that you know if they just have a $6000 IRA somewhere that an advisor is not going to be able to provide this service for them, right? Because it's obviously a lot of time, energy and expenditure on the on the advisors part to be able to sit there and do that with a client. So the client wants this hand holding, they're going to have to pay extra for this service and I think that that comes back around to what we were talking about before it like how can you make some money in Bitcoin? You can provide real advice to people on how to use keys, right? And you can charge for that advice, and there's nothing wrong with doing that. It's providing a real service that a lot of people need and doing it in a handson way where people will actually get the education they need rather than just, you know, watching some YouTube video online or reading a little article about it. For most people, that's just not going to be enough, especially if it's a lot of money at play. What are the reputable product like? I'm generally curious. I don't know if anybody knows outside of Morgan like the reputable product you would feel comfortable like or you know that like actually go into the reporting. So you kind of get that incentive model to bill on it via AUM percentage that is like spot Bitcoin. Is there anything that exists outside it? I know, we obviously know GBTC exists, but is there anything else that's easy for somebody to buy and just be able to report and it just sits with a custodian? I mean I don't know of anything really off the top of my head. The way we do it basically is we have clients either give us their balance on a single CIG or we have we know their balances on like when they are holding it through Unchained capital. And again, the clients are usually giving us like they're what they actually hold in Bitcoin and then we're using that for reporting purposes. But no, I mean it's not, it's not perfect obviously it's better like if they held it you know on their statement and you know our custodian Schwab. So it would be great. We had a line item and Bitcoin was there and we could do reporting on it and do performance reporting on it. But basically what happens now is that we don't do any performance reporting on it. We do performance reporting on their regular stock bond portfolio that they hold with us and their Bitcoin is still included in their net worth and we do reporting on net worth on an annual basis. They could see how much their net worth grows year to year, which is an appropriate time period to be checking net worth anyways. But no, it's not like a, you know it's it's not I wouldn't call it like a Gibs reporting you know standardized annualized return that we're doing on that, right. We're just like hey your net worth was 2.1 million this year and now it's 3,000,000. Look you grew 900,000 over the last year, it's not exciting Bitcoin went up so much and then we move on right. And so obviously there be, there is something in there that needs to happen. As far as like for advisors for the actual reporting is concerned, if you're going to have clients hold these hold their own keys, the reporting is missing for sure. That could be as much as a simple integration though with the platform. So something like Unchained Capital could basically integrate with a lot of advisor softwares. Most advisors I know are using something like Orion advise on Black Black Diamond. I mean those come to mind of like really easy things to just integrate with. There's other financial planning softwares that advisors would probably want, which would be E money, which is really hard to get connections linked up with. It's one of the reasons why we drop the money. We use right capital. As financial planning software, I use that very term loosely. I mean we pretty much do everything at spreadsheets and then have a client connect things and write capitals that we have updated balances. That's it's like a it's. Yeah, but that's not really the topic of the day. But anyways, so I would say just integrating would probably be enough, especially if you're integrating with a software that actually does performance reporting, which is what advisors want to do, right? They're like, hey, I got you allocated to Bitcoin and now look, you're up 352%. And the only way for a client to know that that happened would be if an advisor was able to report on it. Very cool. I appreciate you walking through that because it's a it's a world and been trying to understand and and there seems like to be a lot of inefficiencies and a lot of value to be captured if if you have different. Different skill sets specifically like you mentioned on the advising around the asset in custody. Yeah, I mean, I guess, I mean maybe I'm biased, right, because I'm obviously, I'm a financial advisor and I've been doing this for a really long time. But I know my clients really, really well. And and I know I'm not alone in that. I don't think that like I'm running some sort of special business where I know my clients and other advisors don't. Time and time again, when I talk to financial advisors, they all have really, really good relationships with their clients, right? And I think that that's undervalued in the Bitcoin space and needs could be leveraged more, right? Because we can really help our clients with all of these aspects of Bitcoin, which are, I mean, it's endless I think. And so when people come out and say that the the financial advisor is no longer important because Bitcoin is going to replace all of it, like I kind of laugh at that because I just think of all the extra things that we're now doing for clients because of Bitcoin that didn't exist before in my practice. And so if if an advisor is in the, in a position to be able to do this for their clients, they will be able to offer all sorts of extra services for their clients. Anywhere from, you know, just basic key checks and helping a client store, store their Bitcoin to, you know, true inheritance planning and and and passing Bitcoin down through generations, helping clients with trust planning, which a lot of Bitcoiners are going to need. Right. If that Bitcoiners keep saying that bitcoins going to the moon. Right. I know a lot of Bitcoiners like to joke about losing their Bitcoin in a tragic boating accident. Right. But at the end of the day, like, you still want to legally be able to pass your money to the next generation. And, you know, obviously the hope of many Bitcoiners is that there's no government that exists in the future that would be able to, you know, take an estate planning tax or so forth. Right. But, like, we still have to live in the reality that we are in right now, right? Like, I would love that future reality where none of this stuff exists, but it does. Right. And and I'm sorry, but like we have to live in, in unrealities terms and this is where reality is at the moment. So and there are many ways that it that bitcoiners can benefit from like trust and estate planning that currently exists. So it's not like you know, these things aren't out there, it's just that bitcoiners are not willing to learn about them. And I think that that's where like the financial advisor takes can play a really big role, right, in helping clients with that or a state attorneys can really play a big role or even tax accountants, right? There's all sorts of things that we can do on the standard boring side of finances to help people in this new Bitcoin world. No, I think you're exactly right. Thought a lot about that. It's like the advisors like how do you lend against it in a taxable tax efficient way. We talk about a Bitcoin back loan and all the things. Downstream of it and I hesitate saying this to most advisors, but it's like I know you're you're on the other side of the spectrum where it's like I view the world where a financial advisor if Bitcoin becomes money that they're doing everything you just explained and you know equities and anything else is such a small percentage that you have to know all of this and be able to speak about you know revocable irrevocable trust and helping people manage their wealth long term. So I think that. I think this is like the trend of where we'll see advisors go and they'll either have to have the skill set or they won't be able to be in business. Yeah, absolutely. It's the same thing with like the retirement products, for instance. So like, I'm not a huge fan of Bitcoin in traditional Iras, right? But obviously if that's the only place that a client can buy it, then we want to be able to help them own Bitcoin the right way in a Traditional IRA rather than owning an ETF product. And the reason why would be because in the future when they have to go take required minimum distributions from that IRA, they should be able to just take the Bitcoin out right in kind and then go and spend it in retirement rather than having to transfer that back to Fiat, then maybe go buy Bitcoin in this Bitcoin future world, right. And it, it kind of convolutes what Bitcoin is supposed to be. So like, ideally, the advisors in a position where they're able to set clients up right now in the right way so that we're not trying to transfer back in the future from an ETF into Bitcoin the right way that it was supposed to be from the beginning. And so there are products out there right now like I I mean, I've been talking about Unchained a lot because we use Unchained, but they have a great IRA product. There are other IRA providers that are doing it. I like unchanged just because the client can actually hold their own keys. But again, it comes back to that same problem that we've been talking about from the beginning is that the client has to take control over 2 keys. And they, and if it's a significant portion of their wealth, it, it could be, you know, something that's really daunting. I mean, we have clients who, you know, they hold anywhere between one and 100% of their net worth in Bitcoin. So like, especially like for, you know, the 100 percenters who are in my practice, right, the husband's usually a hardcore bitcoiner, but the wife's not as confident about everything that's going on. So even if the husband has set up this, you know, elaborate multisig setup, you know, if something were to happen to to him and you know, obviously we hope that that's not the case, then like the advisor plays a really key role in helping the wife figure out things. And so and and that planning actually has to take place now, right, while both are in sound mind and both can and basically like come to terms with what their financial situation is and involve the advisor in it, so that if the worst thing does actually happen that there is a plan for moving forward. And so I think that like that's often neglected because Bitcoin is so new. The average bitcoiner is very young. So they don't really think these kinds of things are going to happen to them, right. But we're all starting to age. We're all going to, you know, eventually, except for Marty. Everyone is aging on this call right now. And you know, we're having kids and we've got aging parents, right? And you know, health events unfortunately happen to people. And these are things that we need to be thinking about now while we can and planning for them now under the Circum, like under the financial circumstances that we're currently in, rather than hoping for this future where none of this stuff is going to matter and you're just hand your hardware wallet to your wife, you know, on your deathbed. I think it's unrealistic to think that that's that's the plan for most people and that's actually what's going to happen. And so there are so many ways that we can be helping Bitcoiners. And then also, if you provide these services for Bitcoiners, you will attract other people into the space because they'll say, hey, look at all these, look at all these things that I can do with Bitcoin. Like, I didn't know I could do that before. I didn't know that there could be an inheritance plan around my Bitcoin. I wasn't necessarily sure how I was supposed to hold it. I wasn't sure how I was going to get my wife involved. I wasn't sure how I'd be able to move it to my kids or what would happen to me if I got sick, right. So there's there's all sorts of things around it that I don't think are necessarily being talked about, thought about or spoken about and where like there's a huge business need for this and where people would actually pay for those services. So I get that's that's my soapbox I guess of the day is you know people get into financial services so that I have products to give my clients where you? You've been living this problem for for a while and and the financial services are only just just beginning to catch up to the direction where where you you've already been. So, yeah, I I think I think you're right though. Like all of these, there's, there's a ton of financial services out there in the traditional world that work and need to be ported over to the Bitcoin world. And that infrastructure hasn't been built yet. And I think that that's the entrepreneurial opportunity for the next decade really is to find those niche services products and build them in Bitcoin, because nobody's done it yet. Yeah. And that's really exciting like we think of you as one of the best of the business on that and you mentioned on the estate planning. Next week we have Matt Mcclintock, I'm sure you know from Bespoke and I think of him as one of the best in the business understanding trust, your vocal trust. So we're excited to talk about that because we think it's a, to your point, it's underscored and under like looked at from a wealth planning perspective. And there's so much that he's shared that I don't even like, can't retain in my head about just different ways you want to protect wealth outside of your traditional like personal holdings from a number of reasons that I'm excited for him to share because it's like it's. To your point, you just don't know what you don't know. Especially when you start to accumulate wealth and there's this whole, there's all these different entities and things that want it. Or. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think also at the very least, right from a state planning perspective and I'm sure that you'll get more on this next week, but a lot of people aren't really up on what happens when a probate asset is being passed in their state. So I think often people just think, oh, well, I have a will and everything's fine, you know, and Bitcoin will be included in that will or whatever. Or, you know, I won't even include Bitcoin in my will. I'll just tell you know, whoever's supposed to collect my Bitcoin where my, you know, tinfoil boxes somewhere and they'll go dig it up, right. The problem is that if you actually go through a probate court, every state has a different set of rules of what actually has to happen in order to pass wealth to the next generation. And so if Bitcoin is right now, if you don't hold Bitcoin in let's say an IRA or in a trust, right, it's considered a probate asset. And with the exception of Texas right now, I don't really know of any other. I I mean, I'm not up on all 50 states. So I don't want people to think that like you only can do this if you're in Texas. There might be another state where this is possible, but Texas has a very private probate process. So basically. You can pass Bitcoin through probate without your bitcoins location, without the number of Bitcoin being publicly announced. Basically what happens in probate is that after you die and you go through probate, your assets all become public. Anything that's not in a trust or in an IRA type investment or in an insurance product basically comes out as as something that creditors can go after. And in Texas, what it is is that if you don't have any creditors, then none of that information becomes public. If you do have creditors, what they have to do is actually petition the court to overturn those documents that they can find out what you have and then therefore go after it. And so one of the things though, that people need to know is what if there's a private probate process in their state? Because if there's not, what could happen, especially if you didn't plan in your inheritance properly, it would be that your Bitcoin now is a probate asset. And your Bitcoin address, where it's stored is now public and the number of Bitcoin that you have at that address is now public and it's attached to your name because it's it's on a probate docket. And I think that's like literally a worst nightmare for a lot of bitcoiners is like that exact scenario of their name, their address, the number of Bitcoin that they have, like all of that now being public, right. And now everyone knows that whoever inherited that has all of that Bitcoin. And so I think like some basic planning. People need to do would be like you. You need a revocable living trust at the very least to store your Bitcoin. And if you don't want it to become a probate asset, if you're not living in a state where you have a private probate process and then you know there's a lot of other trust planning that people can do. But I mean, these are some basic things, right, that the trusted state attorneys could really help with and they could be working quote, UN quote in Bitcoin by, you know, implementing these trust for people to assign their Bitcoin to certain trust assets and so forth. You just mentioned that's a worse nightmare. You know what's even a worse nightmare than that is? Imagine that happened to you. If you're still alive. That was, it was either Matt or one of his team members that explained basically everything you just referenced. But if you're sued or get hit, you know, you hit a car, somebody else has a car and they know that you're more prone. Or basically, if you're a public. Specifically if you're a public figure in this space, but that you can come after those assets while you're alive. If they're not in the right vehicle. So that's something that we'll definitely want it, but that just made me think of that. It's like dead. Selfishly, it's like they'll figure it out, whatever. But alive is another kind of just a whole can of worms of somebody coming after your money that you thought was saved. Yeah, for sure. I'd say dead is probably a nightmare for people too, though, right? Because of who you're leaving it to. You want to make sure that they're protected and that people aren't going after them and there's nothing you can do about it. Once you're beyond this life. So I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of things that bitcoiners definitely need to be thinking about. And I often get a lot of backlash about it when I bring these things up. Because the the number one comment I hear from bitcoiners is that that stuff's just not going to be a thing that I need to worry about in the future. And I get it. I I 100%, I hope I, you know what, it's my best hope that we don't have to deal with that in the future. But in the meantime, while we do still need to deal with it, it's something that is worth taking a look at and planning for now. Yeah, changing gears a little bit and building on the conversation we we had before we hit record, there was that document from BlackRock that came out that had a recommended allocation. I'm not sure what the validity is, whether or not it was just one analyst putting out some some bull fuel before the ETF launches, but they had an 80%. Bitcoin 5015% Stock 4% or 5% bond Allocation recommendation In that one document you mentioned that you have clients ranging anywhere from 1% exposure to 100% exposure. How do you, as a financial advisor, approach the discussion of the appropriate allocation for Bitcoin? Yeah, absolutely. I love that question. I it's really not A1 size fits all question for sure. I know I'm like the in traditional finance, right, there's the 6040 you or 60% in stock, 6040% in bonds and most people can have that allocation or that's a moderate style allocation. With Bitcoin, I don't really see it as that. For me, Bitcoin is one of these things where client really needs to understand the technology in order to have a large position in it. So in that respect, it's a little different than I would say how we allocate the average asset. There's always the risk tolerance of the client, which we start with first. So risk tolerance has two aspects to it. One of them is just literally tolerance, like, you know what you think of if somebody's willing to go bungee dumping or they like to take risk. And that's typically what people think of when they think of risk tolerances. But there's also the ability aspect over risk tolerance is whether or not this person actually can take risk. And with inability is like is income stable? Do they have a lot of assets to their name? Somebody with a lot of assets is going to have a lot more ability to take risks than somebody with a small amount of assets, right? Because if they have only $1.00 to their name and they lose their dollar, right now they have nothing. Whereas somebody who has a billion dollars, right, if they lose 100 million of it, it's not as big of a deal and so? There's that aspect to it, how regularly you're paid, whether or not your income is stable, how long you've been investing. All of that's going to play into your ability to take risk. And people usually like to only look at their willingness to take risk and not necessarily their ability to take risk. And all of that does play into Bitcoin as well. But then there's also the understanding of the technology because it's new and it's different and it's a savings technology and it really flips people on their head about the fact that like it's a money that you're putting in portfolio, it's just a volatile money. Relative to the dollar, so, and I would call the dollar volatile, but I would say it's volatile in a way where people don't necessarily see it because everything's priced at dollars, right. You see it as an inflationary aspect and like you're purchasing power and so forth, but you don't necessarily see the, the fluctuation of your money in your bank account every single day. And so if you obviously, if you use Bitcoin as your unit of account, you wouldn't see that either. But because we're not using it as our unit account yet, right, you see the fluctuation of Bitcoin in as being when you're holding it as a money and therefore, in order to be able to persist in holding it, you need to understand the technology better. So, so there's, there's those 3 aspects of it and then it's allocating from there. So we used to start with these, how clients ended up with some of these 1% positions because we actually used to take starting positions of 1%. I actually don't believe in a 1% starting position anymore. I do think it's too low. We try to have clients start if they're feeling really scared and nervous about it. It actually at 3% and we do it of net worth, not of investable assets. And the reason why I do it based on net worth is because I think of it as a money and not as an investment. And so advisors can bicker about whether or not that's the right way to do it. Obviously that's how we do it in our practice. And so for most people though. It's going to be a much bigger percentage of their investable assets portfolio even if we're starting with 3% position of net worth because most clients have other assets besides their investable assets. And so from there, if we're starting at 3%, then it's really how much the client is it can can afford to have in their portfolio and what their situation looks like. And so I would say for most people then starting positions are probably somewhere between 3 and 20%. And then fluctuations from there will obviously it we like to rebalance when things go down and where the percentage goes down, but we try to have clients not rebalance on the way up. And so for some clients that's just simply not feasible. And the risk like their ability to take risk and their willingness to take risk is just it's not in line with what's going on with Bitcoin, in which case we will have to trim positions as they go up. But for most people what we do is a sort of a set it and forget it thing, especially if they have it on hardware. Well it's we're like this is your position. We might add to it and and call it a day, but don't worry about it, just just let it sit tight and we have sort of a Max dollar amount that we're willing to put into it from a percentage basis of their portfolio. And then we just let it go and see where it goes. And that's because there have been many studies done on rebalancing and rebalancing actually doesn't really work. Advisors don't like to admit this because it's something that we like to say that we do for clients. And so they don't like to admit that rebalancing is not necessarily the right thing to do, but the thing that you need to do for clients is tax loss harvesting, not rebalancing. So rebalancing typically takes place in a tax loss harvesting manner. I would say my practice rather than actually rebalancing where we're sitting there trying to figure out whether or not clients need to go back to specific percentage allocations. But generally risk assets over time are going to do better than risk off assets, right. And therefore you would want the risk asset portion of the portfolio to grow over time. And you would want to leave the, you know, the other portions of the portfolio that really aren't going to be performing for a client, which I'm in this case, I'm really referencing cash and bonds here as is. And so Bitcoin to me is a risk asset. And even though it's a money, it's still something that is highly volatile, right, And something that you're looking as a longterm savings product, not a shortterm savings product, in which case it would be a risk asset and something that we would want to hold for a long period of time is something that we would not want to rebalance. Same thing in stocks. And so that's how we approach it for clients. We're not a cookie cutter style practice. Everyone's got their own portfolio allocation. It's one of the reasons why I like my practice is small and why our fees are high is because we like to do one, like have one-on-one attention with their clients and make sure that the portfolio actually fits what they need to do. I think what people need to focus on in their own lives is like, how much of their money do they need right now versus how much money are they, you know, able to allocate for the future because. Really what you can do in portfolios from there is say okay. If I know I only need, you know, $100,000 let's say over the next three or five years. Anything else I have in access to that I can put into a portfolio of Bitcoin or stocks or however I want to do it, right? And that could be your allocation and that's how you measure the the allocation percentage. You're literally matching your assets with your liabilities. So if you've got short term liabilities that you need to meet, you can't use a long term asset like Bitcoin to meet them. And again it's something that bitcoiners don't like to hear because they want to hold everything in Bitcoin all the time and I 100% get that. But if you also you know if you need to go make a payment on something in the next you know three to five months and it's a large payment and then you have to go sell your Bitcoin at a loss, that that's not necessarily good for your financial situation either. So I think it's just separating into buckets what you have on a shortterm basis of needs versus what's on a longterm basis that you can store away a squirrel away and. Hit that tablet or they hit the RAT button to get more Bitcoin for your long term savings portfolio and that's how you should come up with your allocation. We've thought through this pretty thoroughly. I mean, this is like all I do all day, so yeah. No, I mean, I completely agree. I do think there is a level of nativity naivety that exists out there with Bitcoin or so like, yeah, we're gonna replace the state, but I think. Your framing of hey, we live in reality. There are certain rules that you should follow and probably will be advantageous for you to follow. If the end state of where this is going in your mind doesn't materialize before, you either need to pass along your wealth or or something happens. Like Michael said, while you're alive and you have to, you have to take care of those liabilities. That's one thing, and it goes back to the comment I made earlier, like I do believe and something I think about a lot, because there's a there's that thing about like old, rich, old money and new money, and I think a lot of bitcoiners are new money. They have this idea of like it's going to be incredible, but the history of new money is people that don't know how to manage it properly and that's. One thing I would hate to see is bitcoiners get a lot of wealth and then mismanage it. And so really, having a plan, sticking to it, and getting that plan early, most importantly, is something that I think a lot of, a lot of bitcoiners should be thinking about. Yeah, there are also, there are a lot of old Bunny examples that are public that you can follow. So I mean for instance the Royal family in England, I know people like, you know, not necessarily like the their daytoday activities or what they're personally doing, but if you look at what the family. Has done from a wealth perspective, right? They have very set rules and documents on how the wealth is to be spent, how is to be transferred, how it's like. Literally, I mean down to, like, what uniforms, you know, the people who work in the castle are supposed to wear, right? I mean, they've got just documentation on all of this stuff. And so you can as a family, right? If you're thinking about the fact that, like, maybe you bought Bitcoin a while ago and you've got all the Bitcoin you could ever need, and you're looking at passing this down as a multigenerational wealth experiment with your family, right? Like there are examples out there where you can take it to an extreme and have like serious documents drafted up about how future generations could spend. Or you can. You know, take time to to sit down with your family and have conversations about values, right? Or maybe you need a little bit of both. And these are, these are things that like conversations that advisors can help clients with, right? Is like the multigenerational wealth of setting up like how you're going to pass this to your children. And it's not just like literally how they're going to take over the keys. It's like how they are going to know what to do with this in the future. How they are going to know what it is that you value and how it is that they are going to actually value things. And I think that we often like to think, oh, we're, you know, we're doing that all the time with our kids and we're planting the right things in their brains. But if you look at, let's say, your parents generation, right? Like, I know I didn't necessarily follow everything that my parents wanted for me. And I know that my kids are probably not going to follow everything that I say that they should do either. And the idea is not really that they become a replica of me. Right. Because my kids aren't placed on this earth to be a copy of me. They already have one of me on earth. They don't need another one of me. They need them, right. That's why they're here. And so the point as if you want to create this, you know if you want to really be a family name and have multi generational wealth. It's not only having all this documentation in place, but it's also constantly planting in your kids brains like what the right thing is to do. And not only planting it in their brains, but making sure they know it so well that they're ready to plant it in the next generations brain and they're ready to plant it in the next generations brain. Like this is not necessarily something that's so simple from planning perspective. It's like it takes. It's it's just constant cultivation, right? It's like a gardening approach rather than being a Carpenter, right? You can hammer a nail a couple of times and maybe make your kids do what you want them to do. But if you're planting a garden, right, you need to water it and you need to plant properly and you need to get the sunlight just right and you need to have all and you need to constantly be doing it right. It's not something that you just do once and that's it. And I think that some of these things are really hard for the, you know, for people to do in general, because talking about money is hard. And maybe we didn't grow up talking about money, or maybe it's something there's taboo in the household about, talking about money. Or maybe the husband and wife aren't necessarily on board with how money should be spent or saved and so forth. And so it makes conversations with the next generation really difficult. But the West, the best way to protect your wealth, right, if you're going to hold a longterm asset like Bitcoin, is also to be making sure that you're doing the right thing for the future and what they're like, how the future is going to spend that money as well, so. These are things obviously, that that are in my brain quite a bit and that I'm always thinking about. And so it's it's something that it's my greatest hope that not only do bitcoiners keep their wealth, but they're able to pass it on to the family members who then value it the same way that bitcoiners do today. Yeah, this this topic of like, I forget seven generation planning was popular a couple years ago in Bitcoin circles. Was the, I believe the Iroquois as a 7, seven generation thinking? Yeah and it is. It's so interesting that Bitcoin causes that to be relevant in a way that things, you know, that kind of longterm financial planning hasn't really been relevant in the modern era at least. And you know it brings back all those the classic tropes of like the four generations of wealth of I forget how it is exactly, but the first generation makes the money, second generation preserves the money because they they get enough of the signal from from the people who made the money of like how to how to responsibly steward that wealth. The third generation doesn't get as much of that signal. It's sort of diluted through time and they end up squandering the wealth and then the 4th generation goes broke and that's like the classic arc of of the way of the of wealth. And you know there are these examples like the British royal family which is greatly helped by not having to pay taxes on inheritance of or taxes in general. But yeah, Bitcoin makes is relevant again because it's a it's an asset that. Can and should continue to appreciate and value for the next 200 years. That's what 7 generations comes out to and it's wild to have to think about that and consider how do you propagate the signal of of wealth preservation and stewardship over time. And for a little bit of personal anecdote, this is something that that I think about a fair bit because my greatgrandfather bought a farm in Iowa and that farm is still in the family. And so that farm has provided a a middleclass safety net for three generations now. And you know the, the classic wisdom has applied here of don't sell the farm, hold on to the farm, don't touch it, just let it be. And that's the scarce asset from that's a scarce asset from the past, this real estate asset that not only continues to appreciate in value, but it generates A dividend, A yield from from annual harvest. And it's it's not a big farm, but it has provided a safety net for three generations of my family. And that's the only ancestor that I'd know much about, because that's the only ancestor that's been really relevant to my financial and my financial world and and my life in general because of the foundation that that choice laid and the signal that has managed to propagate through the generations of don't sell the farm, hold on to it. It's the safety net. I certainly hope that that's the way future generations see Bitcoin. There are all sorts of I mean. There are trusts in things that are that do exist where you could actually like pretty much lock up your trust or your your Bitcoin for for years and years and years. I think there's like a it's called the dynasty trust. I don't know that much about it so maybe Matt can speak a little bit more on it than I can. The problem with some of these trust products though, I would say that bitcoiners are going to run into, especially if you're a young bitcoiner, would be that you put your assets into the trust. Once you do that, you are basically. You're no longer associated with those assets, right? The whole way of getting out of the estate planning tax issues is that you you basically put your money into a trust and it's irrevocable, meaning that you are no longer allowed to take that money out of the trust. And so for a young person, let's say somebody in their 30s and 40s, you might not necessarily want to put all of your net worth, even though the state tax exemptions right now are very, very high and they're set to sunset. You wouldn't necessarily want to do that because should you be in a situation where you actually need that money, you wouldn't have access to that money. But there are ways for you to like essentially have that be the family farm, you know in your in in your family where people wouldn't be able to touch it. You would just have to appropriately allocate where you like, put an appropriate allocation into that trust. There are other trusts exist too that where you could take lifetime income from the trust even though you wouldn't be able to like to actually touch the assets in the trust. But bitcoins not an income generating assets. So maybe. Another a trusted estates attorney can comment on this a little bit better than I can because I'm I'm, you know, I'm. It's probably beyond the scope of what we're able to do in my practice. But I'm sure somebody can come up with a trust where you would actually be able to take, like take income from it by taking out of the principle of Bitcoin in a like in a specific percentage every single year. Usually these percentages are somewhere between 3 and 5% of withdrawal rates. And so something like that could probably be drafted up by somebody who is smarter than me. But these are just things that I'm thinking about of like how we can preserve wealth over time. Because you can have these, you know, you can have a trust go to the next generation or you can have one that skips a generation, goes to grandchildren and so forth. And where you were like the grantor of the trust actually takes income from the trust. And then the kids who of the grantor could take income from the trust and then the third generation would actually inherit the trust. So obviously though, you would want to make sure that you educated properly so that by the time it got to the grandchildren it was something that they knew they could be a steward of. And you know, at some point we gotta relinquish control, obviously, because there's only so much you can do in your lifetime and beyond. Yeah, start thinking about it. Start thinking about it. When you go further down, the whole like working, just shared, it's like we all would hope. You know, Bitcoin does its thing, and we're using Bitcoin as money, but where? There's still so much to build and such a long process ahead of us. Well, this, and I'll be frank here too. It's like one thing, think about all this. It does seem daunting and overwhelming, but it really is driving urgency and not urgency, but maybe like really highlighting, like the need for discipline and especially with how you manage your wealth and spend and invest like discipline is a word that. Yeah. Comes top of mind. I think it's hard too because especially if you're if you're duva rich as we've been talking about, right? Like the urge is to say, oh, well, now I'm wealthy and now I can finally do all those things I've been dreaming about doing. And sometimes that's you should do some of that, right? Like, there's some of those things that you absolutely should check off your list, if they're they're, you know, experiences or things that you can't live without. But there are other parts of that where if you just are a little more thoughtful about how you use your money, and the next generation sees how thoughtful you are about it. And if you're constantly planting that thoughtfulness into their brain and doing it through example, not just by telling them that they need to be thoughtful, right. I'm not going to be thoughtful, but you be thoughtful, right, Then they're going to see it and they'll be thoughtful in turn. And then the hope obviously is that because they've learned how to also be thoughtful about their money, that then they could go on with the as the next generation with that money and be thoughtful and their children will see it and so forth. But the urge is obviously not to be that way. Because especially if you were in a situation where, you know, maybe you're making less than $100,000 a year and you've done a really good job of scrounging away a bunch of money to save a bunch of Bitcoin. And then Bitcoin, you know, 100 X's. And now all of a sudden you've got all this money and you're finally don't have to. Like, you don't have to be living the way that you used to live it. It doesn't necessarily mean that you should keep living that way, but it does still mean that you have to have the thoughtfulness and the practice and the discipline, like Marty was saying around still spending your money in a way that makes sense. And that is meaningful because you can get into a situations and I see this with clients all the time where you don't have a meaningful life because you're just throwing money around. And it it does it, I think it it affects people's psyches and it for sure affects people's souls. And that's not what Bitcoin is all about, right? If if you're living in this, if you want to live in the Bitcoin world because you think the Bitcoin world is going to be better than the Fiat world today, then there are steps that. Everybody needs to take to make sure that they're living that purposeful, meaningful life with regards to their money. Yeah, yeah. I think we talked for this last week. We deal and the fact that money doesn't grow on trees or the thought that it's not widely understood has caused a lot of you mentioned souls. Like there's a lot of industries I think of financial advisors. One of them, like when I think of 1 for my mother-in-law, she does nothing effectively other than keep her on track like send her stuff and. I don't think that's what it was meant to be like you said, there's a lot of services to be delivered or given. Recruiting is another one where most people think of recruiting. I think if recruiting in cells and similarly like spray and pray, everybody's been hit by the recruiter. But reality is like. A recruiter or a salesperson is like a consultant and they're there to educate and help you and be a strategic like partner and what you're looking to get. But because you have like loose money, it's easy from the recruiting standpoint. You just spray and pray because people are leaving their jobs for shinier objects and the company has the the the money to spend. But really that wasn't there was real opportunity costs and you had to be strategic about that. So I know there's like a you know, we have the common trope of Bitcoin fixes this, but there you can like get back to the first principles of how like these different verticals or industries have. And completely messed up. And what you're doing is effectively how it gets fixed, because Bitcoin requires certain key skill set to help the end client and you have to understand what their needs are and their plans. It's not just like here's 6040. Good luck, cuz that's gonna wreck a lot of people in short order. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, on a on a total pivot. I know we're running out of time here, so I think we should introduce the This week we tried out something a little different for the podcast of trying to Crowdsource some topics to talk about. And I have to admit that I did not do it right because I walked into a trap of my own making. I left it. I left it wide open of whichever comment gets the most likes. We'll talk about that. And Eric Cason, thanks very much for writing doing mushrooms, which got the most likes. I think you got 93 likes. So I promised that we would talk about that. So I thought about what would be interesting or relevant or appropriate to talk about there, Logan. I left a little chart in the in the chat if you want to pull that up. So I put together my thoughts on this. So first of all, why are mushrooms illegal And and that's where this chart is relevant. If Logan, you can pull that up. So this is a this is a a official UK drug czar department chart of drug harms, harms to society by various drugs that they put out ten years ago. And the guy who was heading a department immediately got sacked because this was against the narrative. But mushrooms, If you can see the chart for those who aren't on YouTube, it's the bottom of this long list of all drugs. And alcohol is right at the top because it obviously, you know, results in drunk driving and the like. So that's a very interesting and relevant that the other part that I think is interesting. So I was a neuroscience major in undergrad and there's a quote from Antonio Damasio's Looking for Spinoza, which I read 15 years ago. So it'll be a little mangled but that we learn about the brain through the scalpel of brain damage and drugs and that's specifically means we learn about how the brain works because of when it's not working, when certain areas of the brain stop working because there's brain damage or because drugs tamper with them. That's how we learn about how the brain works. And you know, classic example would be like how do we know what the amygdala does. The amygdala controls fear and anxiety. It's a little almond shaped center structure of the center of the brain. And when you have a beer, you you feel that euphoria come creeping in. That's actually the poison of the brain, of the alcohol acting on the brain in general, but affecting the amygdala first. So it's tamping down the amount of anxiety that you feel just turning down the output of that area of the brain, and that's the anxiolytic effect that you feel. So I think that there's I think it's kind of remarkable that mushrooms are are illegal when they have the lowest amount of harm to society and also come with this interesting phenomenon. It's the the travel effect of novelty in the brain and how that is experienced. There was an FM RI study of of little kids brains and one of the that kind of that determined that in many ways the patterns of of thought in little kids brains are similar to people on LSD. Which is to say that these these compounds awaken the brain and and flood it with stimuli and novelty in the same way that you would if you're you know walking around in Rome and everything's fresh and novel. So if anyone's curious to learn more about about how neuroscience and brain chemistry works, the most interesting recent book on that is probably Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind, which explores a few specific drugs and semi drugs, including caffeine, and how humans have developed a symbiotic relationship with some of these chemicals and incorporated it into their lives and and civilizations. And there's a really good documentary too called Fantastic Fungi which is a little bit mark stream. But the Michael Pollan book is a great place to start, so I fulfilled my pledge. We talked about. And I'll talk about it. I mean, doing mushrooms, just everything in moderation and setting is important. So just be aware of freaks. Yeah, I mean, all I got is I've been racking my brain on. I love Eric, consider him a good friend. And it's just like. We can we get Eric on the pod but keep it professional and and I think we we need to get Eric on the pod but we we can talk about his time at Coinbase some of the risk edge risk with Eric thanks for making us talk about shrooms on the pod. We ideally will have more interactive ways that will cost you know and hard assets to post. Things like shrooms and how you vote will require another hard asset or the same hard asset would require it. So yeah, that's a little sneak peek of what we're aiming to get some more engaging. There's been a lot of feedback on really good ideas to talk about South. We were hoping to attempt that. It wasn't that it was a wasn't the greatest success from the last one, but we did get to learn about Jesse's past. Jesse, I knew, having run many shows and done similar things in the past, as soon as I saw that tweet, hit my notification. So it's like, this is gonna end the way things. It's gonna end. Yeah. Well, always happy to talk about neuroscience. I never get to anymore. It's 15 years old. Information in my brain floating around. So I was. Well, yeah, you actually did some say something that did hit close to home because I actually wound up taking a biology of the brain elective in college. And it was because I've had had trauma, I've had many concussions, 5 pretty bad ones. And so I learned similar things taking that class. Like how? The synapses and neurotransmitters work and interact and how you can get them going again if you've if you've hit your head a bunch of times. Marty actually did trim last night, so that's. No, no, no. They don't think more sense now that you're saying you've bumped your head so many. Times Alge Morgan. Marty's the hardcore bitcoiner because he's had five concussions. Oh, I mean, that's where Marty Jones comes from, huh? No, no, that's. I've always been that way, even before the confessions. But no. Yeah, younger years teach their own. Again, the mushroom advice. Moderation setting Important. I have nothing to add to this conversation. I don't. Even drink coffee. I I once went to a One of my sons had had this friend and I went to their house one time with my son for his little play date and the wife. Turned to me and she goes, what can I get you? Can I get you a beer or a wine or a coffee? And I was like, just the water and like, don't you drink anything fun? Like, not really, no. I just got to drink water itself there and occasional tea. But yeah, pretty great laced over here. That's. That's what I'd like to see in a financial advisor for being. Yeah, exactly, exactly. To spend a lot of time thinking about other people's money. So it's wise though, because the hidden cost is what you pay after the after the fun time, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, The hanging down. As we're about to find out what the Fiat system Morgan this has been a pleasure I think in terms of the amount of information that was shared by guests on this show 10 episodes and this was definitely the most informative. So thank you for. Giving us a peek into your world as a financial advisor, dealing with Bitcoin and helping clients navigate their journey as they're trying to handle their wealth and think about their Bitcoin allocation and how they can steward that. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. Awesome. Thanks, Margaret. We'll see you guys next week.
Transcript source: fountain