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What you're telling me is that music is about to stop and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous extra ever assembled in the history of gutless 1974198792972000. And whatever we want to call this, it's all just the same thing over and over. We can't help ourselves. I say when we. Sell. Hey, OK, I say when we sell. All right. Welcome back to the last trade, Tim. We got Tim Kotzman, Brian Cabela's and Michael Tanguma. Tim, I really like the portrait that you have in your background. It's very regal looking. It's a new it's a new landscape and new background for the show. I'm just trying to be on theme that it's a golden age for America. That's that's all right. This town money podcast with sound money aesthetics. That's right, I love it. Well, I got some work to do, but at least I'm not in an empty room anymore like it was six months ago. But let's pull up the price here, Tim. It's also a happy early birthday to you. I think when we record that, yeah, when we publish this tomorrow, it'll be your birthday. So how are you feeling on your birthday, Tim? Thank you. I got an extra extra long orange tie on today to celebrate my birthday. So you know, it's it's. That is irresponsibly long, Tim. It's it's irresponsibly long and we're going to the moon. My I'm going to meet Michael on Mars. We're going to have a coffee. It's going to be great. We're only three months away. We're only three months away from that. Being like memed of who's who can be more irresponsibly long when it comes to the the tie by the Bitcoin conference. It's just going to be like a a draping like on the floor. Yeah. Dragging it on the floor behind you. Oh God, we we took a nice little dip here. Yeah. So kind of diving, we're looking at the price for those who are just joining on audio. We're looking at the price on the on ramp terminal on chain market research, free for you all to use, so check it out if you'd like, but we're looking at a price of about $80,000 per Bitcoin. We've had a interesting week since we recorded last Wednesday or Thursday with Lee Bratcher from the Texas Blockchain Council. We saw the executive order be passed by Trump and we're going to get more into that. But what do you guys make of the price action of the past week? I thought we had recovered a bit. We did yesterday I guess right we were, we were coming back from a through of around like 7677, but looks like things are back on the way down. What? What do you make of this Mr. Brian Cabela's house view? House view short term, short term noise, none of this matters. I don't really care that we're at 80. This is this is cheap stats for those who are on zero good time to buy. You know, Bitcoin is is still largely conflated as a risk on asset by most traders. So whether it's hedge funds or people just thinking short term and not accumulating for the long term. And so it gets wrapped up in the broader macro turbulence, whether that's, you know, the, the sort of tariff wars going on right now, equity selling off, general uncertainty in markets that is leading to more of a risk off sentiment than we've seen really, you know, over the past year or so, things have been up and to the right for for most asset classes up until the past, you know, month or so. And so I think that's really all this is. It's it's Bitcoin is continuing to be wrapped up in, you know, a, a broader view that it is, you know, a tech speculation. You know, I think that that narrative is going to to slowly transition over time. I just think we're in the early innings of that occurring. And you know, I think what we'll get to around the SBR is an important signal that will help swing the pendulum to the to the other side of that and and open people's eyes to the risk off nature of Bitcoin at its at its core in terms of its monetary properties and what it can do over the long term, if you are willing to and able to ignore the near term volatility that we're seeing right now. I agree yeah, this podcast is a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because I get to see Tim's tie grow week after week, but it's a curse because we have to talk about the weekly price move on the Bitcoin price. I agree with you. It's it is noisy. One of the things, one of the stats that I saw that indicates the noise and kind of the misunderstanding or lack of understanding from the investors around Bitcoin and the value proposition is that since February 10th, so about a month ago, there's been $5.2 billion of outflows from the Bitcoin ETFs. So I think a lot of this is from hedge funds and more short term bias toward the asset class. But I think it's also just retail investors who are getting their first taste of Bitcoin volatility because the ETFs have only existed now for a little over 12 months. And so a lot of that demand is from the retail investor base. 80% of the ownership is still roughly retail. So I think it is noisy. It feels incredibly mispriced just given the news of last week and where this all goes. But Michael, curious to hear what your thoughts are? I think what Brian shared spot on. I mean, the reality is it's a small asset in a large pool of assets. So when liquidity starts to dry up or deleveraging, it's an easy thing to sell. The main thing that comes to mind is just this notion of like, I think we just generally estimate or assume that everyone is at the level of understanding of long term asset store value. And to Brian's point, like we're on our way there, but this is still a risk asset. I would say it's still a trade for a lot of people outside of a traditional trade like for this middle tier of like what we think of as a knowledgeable bitcoiner, There's still a thought of like I have a price point, I have a house I want to trade it for and that's what money's for. But I still think it's not like this asset that is just understood that I will sweep excess capital, excess productivity for my future generations, right? And like that's that will that will grow over time, But if it's not there, then ultimately it's going to be one of the first things that are sold because it's hyper liquid when risk goes on, because you have other dollar denominated obligations that you have to manage and deal with. And so I think it just makes complete sense. I also think like I don't, I haven't looked at like the VIX and the volatility, but like this is the most volatile I've seen Bitcoin and probably for the past for a long time, maybe since I've been around in the space because it's been volatile. But it's not like this like going and doing the 10% swings back and forth at least for the past five years. So I do think this is a symptom or it's just like a proxy for what's happening in the global markets and it's just kind of the first thing to bounce either direction based on whatever signals are coming. Yeah, the the volatility that you mentioned, Michael, is not isolated to Bitcoin either. This week alone, there was almost $3 trillion wiped out from the MAG 7. And so a lot of investors still perceive Bitcoin to be risky or highly volatile, which it is. But volatility a isn't inherently bad. And BI think investors forget that the MAG 7, which is about 30% of the S&P 500 in terms of market cap and certainly drives most of the returns. These are very highly volatile stocks as well. Like they're drop. There are ten 2030% drawdowns. Quite frequently actually. One additional 1 to contextualize that we brought up on final settlement, Jackson, I think you'll appreciate is I think it was like last seven to 10 days and video wiped off a trillion dollars and its market cap. The whole bailout in 2008, nine, was $700 billion. Which is wild. And So what Yeah, what what this amounts to then I think is we're still in the early stages to your point, Michael, because most investors perceive this to be a trade or it's part of their, you know, it's a 1% to 3% allocation of their portfolio. What most investors are still missing is that Bitcoin and every other asset class for that matter, is a proxy for global liquidity. It doesn't mean that Bitcoins price only moves on liquidity, but at the most fundamental basis, you don't protect your wealth in dollars because over time they devalue. So naturally you allocate to investments such as equities or real estate or Bitcoin. And the sooner investors realize that liquidity and these macro forces of debt, deficit spending M2, which is money supply growth, are driving asset classes across the board, the sooner we see Bitcoin take off from a $2 trillion asset class to a 5 or $10 trillion investment. Yeah, that's just yeah. It's exactly right. I mean, it's just it ultimately comes down to, you know, what you're describing is scarcity effectively like why, why are why is real estate valuable? Why are equities valuable? The best companies in the world, there's only a handful of them. They have moats, they have competitive advantages, similar dynamics with real estate. Bitcoin is, is different and special because it's, it's this perfectly scarce asset and therefore, you know, that combined with it being small relative to everything else, like you said, Michael makes it the fastest horse off the bottom. So like whenever, and I think we're already seeing global liquidity sort of bottom and, and return back upwards and there's some amount of lag in terms of when you see Bitcoin and other assets move in response to that. But typically Bitcoin is, is the fastest horse out of that because it is in my mind, like it's the purest form, it's the purest expression of what we're describing around the scarcity dynamics. And so, yeah, it's a it's a matter of time. It's, you know, I think if you're looking at everything this administration is doing, you know, I think it's, it's pretty apparent that, you know, whether you want to call it purposeful, like like they want, they effectively don't. You know, Trump has said he doesn't care. He's not looking at the stock market. He's OK with it going down effectively because he wants to bring down interest rates. He wants to force Powell's hand in some in some manner in so far as they don't have to roll over all this debt at where interest rates are today. And so I think that's also part of what's going on here. And so again, long term perspective, if you can look past sort of this, you know, initial period, Bitcoin will be the fastest horse outside, you know, once we're outside of that and liquidity returns because they're going to have to print regardless, as we know, in order to service the debt levels regardless of what DOGE does or regardless of if they're able to, you know, keep a lid on inflation to some extent by reducing energy costs, which we've seen some headway in past couple weeks. Ultimately, the end state is more printing and therefore you want to own scarce assets and Bitcoin is the most scarce asset. Yeah, like. Somebody has to blink first, but we're in a deep, deep recession. I didn't realize like how bad it was until because we kind of live in a bubble. And if you have a bunch of friends and family members that have, you know, protected their wealth in Bitcoin, you don't feel it as much. But when you go out and talk to people in retail and the things that are happening and you can see like anecdotes on Twitter, it's just really, really messy out there from shortage, a reduction in hours for people in the retail space to the things that are on like being left on the shelf to. I had heard an anecdote of a retailer that had to create like basically a sub brand like that was the cost was, you know, 50% reduced just to be able to sell to a market segment because they can't afford that. Like it's just really bad. So there's the rolling over the debt and having to reduce interest rates to, to be able to pay for that. But then there's just a natural like societal factor that plays into this for people not being able to make ends meet and all the things associated with it that the liquidity has to return or you just end up in like chaos. I would also say, I think like we've been there for a while, like I don't think that that's a recent phenomenon. I think towards probably the back half of the Biden administration, there were similar anecdotes. I think to some extent, you know, at least if you're, if you know, if you're defining a recession, as you know, decline in GDP growth, you know, I think to some extent you could argue that that was effectively paper over by government spending and government jobs effectively. So influencing those those government issued statistics via effectively propping it up and papering over that. So I think what you're seeing now is as you strip out a lot of that excess spending and waste, I think we're starting to see the reality of what's really going on. But to your point, Michael, like I think when you go out and talk to people, you know, people are struggling out there, whether it's, you know, people in the retail space running a business or just people, you know, living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, I, I think, I think we're just starting to see it more now. And to tie it back to Tim's painting in the background, one of the stated objectives of the Trump administration is to have a golden age in America. And so I do think that ties into the strategic Bitcoin reserve, the executive order that was issued on Thursday, March 6, believe last week. And so this actually there's a lot to talk about. One thing I want to touch on just for audience investors to think about is Bitcoin and all these investments that we discussed, all traditional asset classes, they move with liquidity because they're effectively proxies or store values to protect against the debasement of Fiat currencies. Where Bitcoin goes longer term or the 1st 15 years were defined by the expansion of the money supply, the post great financial crisis QE environment. Where this goes the next 15 years is you have sovereign nations allocating the Bitcoin as part of their strategic reserve. And these are going to be pools of capital that are far less sensitive to the volatility and short term distractions and noise that exist and impact what's been impact retail investors, which have largely driven the ownership and allocation toward Bitcoin. So let's talk about the strategic Bitcoin reserve. I think there's plenty to cover. I first maybe want to just get your thoughts from the group in terms of was this kind of what you expected? There was a lot of flip flop over the past couple weeks and months about Bitcoin only. Is it going to be other crypto assets? And what we saw now is the Bitcoin strategic reserve and then the digital asset stockpile. Is this in line with what you guys thought or is it different? To me it's, it's it honest. It honestly exceeded my expectations from like a Bitcoin or perspective. I think to, as you alluded to, it was not clear what this was going to look like in the weeks and months leading up to it. There was talk about it, there was posturing about it, but it wasn't clear what it would actually look like. And, and there's a few key takeaways in my mind. One is the, is the real clear delineation between Bitcoin and the other crypto assets. And so there's two different facilities, There's the Bitcoin strategic reserve and there's the digital asset stockpile, the the Bitcoin reserve. We're going to hold our bitcoins. We're going to figure out how many bitcoins we have. We're going to do an audit and we're going to look to wait, look for ways to acquire more bitcoins in budget neutral way. The stockpile, on the other hand, you know, we're saying we'll, we'll likely hold these, we're definitely not buying more and we might sell these other crypto assets if it behooves us. And so that's a real clear sort of line in the sand in my mind and and important signal from this administration saying we understand Bitcoin is different. It's special. Sax had commentary around this afterwards, you know, highlighting, you know, there's no issuer. That's a very, you know, there's a ton of reasons why Bitcoin is different than than the broader crypto space. But if you want to just have a very clean cut, concise message, it's the only one without an issuer. And so it does have, you know, basically more credible neutrality and actual decentralization relative to these other assets. And therefore, you know, it makes sense as a strategic reserve asset where these other assets, you know, they're, they're specifically not calling them a reserve, it's a stockpile. So we just happen to have these other assets. We're not thinking about them long term like we are with Bitcoin. So that was one of the biggest takeaways for me. I also, I found it curious how like some quote UN quote bitcoiners perceived this as like not great one from a couple different perspectives. One being like, I think there was a sort of delusional assumption that they would just be smashed buying Bitcoin immediately and that obviously didn't happen. But even beyond that, I think there's some sentiment that like, you know, this wasn't the purpose of Bitcoin. How could you, how could you be cheering on the US government embracing Bitcoin? And I think that's just completely misguided in terms of the line of thinking because, like, how did you think that this was going to play out? Like if Bitcoin is to be global money, governments are going to adopt it whether you like it or not. And you know, Bitcoin will never become global money if it's just a group of anarchist cypherpunks on the Internet using it. And so this was always going to be the path. I think we're on an accelerated path. You could, you could certainly make that argument. I don't, I personally didn't expect the US government to come out and embrace Bitcoin like this, this quickly. But I think this was always, always, always going to be an inevitability. And so I I struggle with folks who are who are perceiving this as somehow bad or or bad for Bitcoin. Yeah, and one one thing too is just. Things move. So quickly in the space where I think we almost have to just take a step back and think about a couple of years ago, certainly when we all entered the space, there was some sort of lingering concern about will the government ban it or if they could ban it, what are the implications of that? Because we all know how bans have happened in China and has been ineffective. But there was this overarching concern or at least thoughtfulness around how do you protect yourself against a government that may take a draconian spot response toward a form of money that's competing potentially against their interests? What I think's remarkable is now we have the US government embracing Bitcoin and then also recognizing Bitcoin and stable coins as a way to strengthen the US dollar. And so that is something that I easily overlook. But it's just an incredible, it's incredible how quick quickly we got to that point where whether it's four years ago, 5-8 years ago, the narrative, the discussion was totally different. And now Brian, I, I wasn't like you, I didn't necessarily think this was inevitable. Maybe just for whatever reason, I didn't think I, I didn't think it was inevitable. But anyways, to be here now, it's it's incredibly exciting and this is incredible milestone. Yeah, Michael, what'd you say? Well, so. I was going to touch on both of what you guys shared in the sense of there's a few things. One is like the economic reality, There's like there is what what exists in the sense of like I just always anchor back. Do you want to make money or do you want to be right? Because being right is the romanticized nature of what Brian was referencing around. We're all going to hold these keys in our house and the government's never going to adopt in whatever like version that somebody had in their mind. And it's generally like we've been talking about a lot internally, this notion of like most people don't remember a conversation they have or a concert. It goes back to like when you interview somebody in the 1st 30 seconds, you make the conclusion on if you like them and are not, the rest is spent validating it. It's like somebody came into Bitcoin, had this idea and then they just, it was very hard for most because most people either aren't critically thinking or thinking objectively and for themselves to rash to understand the economic reality of how this will actually play out. And anybody that has done that obviously knows all, all the liquidity sits at sovereigns, family offices, people that manage the world's capital. And if they're going to come in and then they're going to come in, it's the only way that this thing can win is money. And we obviously spend a lot of time on that on the other side. And Jackson loves talking about like it's a really good mental model or paradox that like people that will scream self custody ties into like you're actually putting people into an ETF because you're selling this version of the future that is not actually based in economic reality because most people do not want to manage all their wealth on their person and deal with it. And so that's just a reality of that time. Back to to your point, Jackson, like we are so kind of like messed up in our brains when it comes to the serotonin and dopamine levels of like Twitter and Bitcoin are kind of like the same proxies. Like they're so reactive to the market that we just want to see the Vol. Like we just want to see things happen. You want to see the announcements, We want to see the price move. And the reality is like, to your point, this is the great like taking a step back from the minutiae of the the mechanics of what's there, because I think it could possibly change specifically if there's like actual legislation outside of the executive order. The simple fact is that you have the president of the leading nation in the world not only talking about it favorably because the alternative was whatever every what had existed the past five plus years is the pure just like stigma and it's a scam like. Literally calling a scam in a Ponzi. Well, so scam. In that, but then the radioactive nature that it would be banned because that's where this has been a complete 180 shift from the institution's the Ras and folks were talking to. Because now if the government comes in and this ties in, you can't talk about this without the OCC because the OCC is cut leading from the administration side and the pressure there. And we talked about this again earlier this week. But Jax, you know this well, like high net worths, family offices, institutions don't want to catch a falling knife. They rather pick up the asset on the way back. It's very similar with dealing with the banks like catching the falling knife coming into space is going to Coinbase and by Nance and all these third party exchange, catching it on the upswing is just going to your bank when they've already approved it and then just buying it out of your account because now you're just like you're preserving your wealth. You're not going to just have it evaporate because the government banned it. So there's a lot embedded in this, this notion of independent of strategic reserve, just saying that we're not going to go and take you and black bag you or try to kidnap you or try to take the asset and then anything else is really gravy. And the sovereign level competition for the underlying is just part again of the economic reality. If there's only 21 million, it's naturally going to end up this way. Yeah. What's the saying? History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. I published something on my personal newsletter last week where I'd categorize what we're seeing now with Bitcoin within the United States. Very similar to be what happened in the mid 1800s with the gold rush. So in quick background, in 1848 when gold was discovered in California, there was a lot of skepticism. And so there were communities within, you know, the surrounding areas that recognize that there actually was gold here, but this is a precious metal. And of course there's going to be doubts that there could actually be significant amounts of this precious metals in the hills. And so naturally then there was skepticism around the country, around the world and most of the state isolated where I almost think of similar to Bitcoin, those who are early to adopt the asset class were in this bubble. And then there was always this skepticism that exists outside of that where again, going back to that conversation, well, maybe the government will ban it. Who knows what will happen? The banks will never step in. Institutional investors won't touch it. So existed within this little community, similar to what happened in the 1800s with the gold rush in California. But the critical thing, what happened later that year in 1848, was President James Polk delivered a State of the Union address in December of 1848, and he acknowledged a report about the discoveries of gold in California. And pretty much from that moment forward, there was widespread acknowledgement and belief, and they knew that there was gold in California. So what ensued in the following years was hundreds of thousands of people migrated to California, not only in the United States, but globally in search of discovering gold. And So what we've witnessed now in the past week is the Polk moment for Bitcoin, where you have the stamp of approval now from the Trump administration. They have the strategic Bitcoin reserve. And there's potentially ways now that they'll explore to acquire more of it. But this is really the signal to the rest of the world that we've given this the stamp of approval bitcoins legitimate, we're going to acquire or we're going to hold it at least likely acquire more of it. And this is really setting off what will be the digital gold rush or the Bitcoin rush and. Maybe to give Tim his his credit, you know, he's been having some pretty bullish price predictions on Twitter. And part of this conversation really is all about the convergence of everyone realizing this is the thing that they want, right from the sovereign level to the individual to the balance sheet. And there's we're kind of like seeing, you can squint that people are coming around to that this thing has value, but not how much value and how much of their wealth needs to be in it. And it reminds me, Jackson, what you just shared of this chart. And this chart gets a lot of slack. I'm pulling up the, the Weimar Republic and the hyperinflation of the, the mark. The, the reason why I bring it up is because it's not to insinuate like that we end up in hyperinflation with the dollar in the, in the traditional sense that you can't spend it and society breaks down. But there's that point where everyone realizes what Jackson was alluding to and you kind of see that you, you don't see any more downwards pressure into selling, but versus the dollar, it just kind of rips. And I think that's ultimately what happens once people in real estate and all these like everyone has this door they're trying to get through. And you can make the case that the dollar is hyperinflated against Bitcoin the past 15 years to go from effectively 0 to you know, $80,000 or 108 at the, the height that is, that's insane when you think about it at it from zero monetizing in real time. And so I think like we're just on the precipice of the market understanding this. And whether it's in 24 months or 48 months, you'll see something like this relative to the dollar. And that'll be everyone understanding actually what is Bitcoin? Yeah. And the implications of this as well for the country and for states for that matter, as well as those nations or states that lead within Bitcoin adoption are ultimately going to be the jurisdictions that accumulate the most wealth in the 21st century. It's like the same thing in the 1800s. Hundreds of thousands of people go to go to California and just to discover and extract gold out of the ground. People make incredible amounts of money from that. They build new businesses, new infrastructure. The same thing is going to happen. And that's why Trump and his administration wanted to campaign on being the, they say crypto president, but it really is Bitcoin president when you think about the implications of the strategic Bitcoin reserve and then the digital asset stockpile. So this is incredibly bullish for the asset class, but it's also really bullish for the country as well. I I call it the orange age because you have orange man and he is now a big proponent of the orange coin. So I I don't think it's the golden age anymore. It's really the orange age of America. Yeah, I would. Also say I think. Similar. To what you both described and and Luke Groman has talked about this a bit, but I think everything they're doing is a signal to the average American that one you know we're not going to ban this. And so it gives that, it gives the average person air cover and space and, and the ability to learn about Bitcoin and save in Bitcoin and continue to spend dollars. And I think that's effectively what the plan is, is because they I think they know internally like, yeah, we're going to continue to debase the dollar. You know, when we're sitting here 20 years from now, you know, that trajectory of debasement is going to be unchanged, if not accelerated. And so this is giving the average person the out to saving Bitcoin and spending dollars. And what I think is great about this too as well, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago, but want to just highlight it again really quickly is a lot of people won't adopt Bitcoin until it's incredibly easy for them to do so. And there's a lot of reasons for it. It's like people don't have time. People don't actually have a lot of money to put into it. Like we're again in this bubble. But if you move a little bit outside of that, it ties into what Michael mentioned. There will be a point in the future, I don't know when that happens, but people will be able to access Bitcoin directly through their traditional banking relationship. And so until that is widely accessible, most people still are not going to buy Bitcoin direct, hold it directly. If they're going to opt for any solution, and this maybe applies to the top 50% in the US, they're going to buy the ETF. And so why this is positive, why is it good that the US government and why is it good that the states are going to adopt Bitcoin? Because ultimately a lot of their constituents won't do it on their own terms. And this is a way for states, if they do it responsibly and they do it with the right intentions, they can actually use the adoption of Bitcoin to better the lives of their constituents. Yeah, I. Mean this all talk goes back to the ETF even being approved and we've talked about on previous shows where if you're running a country, you're you're individuals, the constituents need to be able to spend. If you're going to onshore and you're going to produce things, they have to be able to you like you have to sell it to somebody. And so the individuals have to protect their wealth. Like it's very fundamental on why this is important for every country and specifically the US. And maybe this ties into like the sovereign game theory of again, we don't get the serotonin or dopamine hit that another country just ate in and bought, you know, 100 1000 Bitcoin, not bitcoins, by the way, Brian, but it's it's a different 100,000 golds, it's 100,000. It's a common thing, I think in the industry is a Bitcoin or bitcoins with our bitcoins, but with the largest investment in a digital asset firm in the past, the history with the UAE, MGXGMX, MGX. So MGX target $100 billion for AI investments. It's not even digital asset related. But if you go back to just pure sovereign game theory playing out into wanting to be a leader in any industry and sector. The UAE has had a strong stance in leading in new emerging technology, specifically AI, but they've also behind the scenes have had partnerships with Mara and other miners. It's been rumored that they've been mining on their own via their own energy, via nuclear. We know Bhutan is mining. There's no shortage of countries that you know, you can make the case that's their first instance of like buying or getting Bitcoin exposure via their natural resources. Point being is to put $2 billion into one of the largest exchange globally. That's their proxy for how do you start to buy the picks and shovels to get exposure to the space. And then shortly after that, it's come out that I guess Trump's team or network from his business side relations are actively looking at getting exposure to the finance US arm. So this is happening in real time. It's just takes time for people to like execute on a purchase when you think about consensus and just buying that those sizes, those size purchases. But it's playing out. It's playing out actively right now. Bitcoin. Custody is evolving and as institutional allocators increasingly look to incorporate digital sound money into their portfolios, risk management and operational excellence are paramount. 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We recently launched Onramp Institutional, a dedicated segment of the business designed to provide secure, innovative Bitcoin custody and advisory solutions for institutions worldwide, providing allocators with robust security without compromising on accessibility and allowing them to tap into a comprehensive suite of financial services, from trading to lending and more, all built to institutional standards. Discover how Onramp Institutional can elevate your firm's Bitcoin strategy. Schedule a consultation with our team to learn more at onrampbitcoin.com. Yeah. I would love to hear Brian and Tim from you guys. You were at the Bitcoin for America. What do you call it event or conference? It wouldn't be a conference, Yeah. Bitcoin for America Summit. I like that you guys were there earlier this week. It was an invite only event, so I guess it was quite intimate. Wanted to get your guys thoughts just in terms of the discussions that were had, the people you spoke to, what were what was the sentiment like coming off the strategic Bitcoin Reserve executive order? I. Think. You saw a. Few you quite a few things I'll hit on on one or two at this Bitcoin for America forum 1 you had both the House and the Senate either introduce or reintroduce legislation with six Co sponsors each. But almost more telling, it's the first time that we saw Michael Saylor do a presentation talking about the aspect of Bitcoin being a defense system for the country, which kind of goes into software and Jason Lowry and that that's sort of a vein, so I thought. That. Along with a few of the other talks about bit bonds about should the country look at self custody or use custodians How to buy Bitcoin? In a. Responsible market, neutral market maker sort of way, capital markets sort of conversations. I hadn't heard that before. So I thought that was very interesting. And then? To. Kind of almost connected the, you know, yesterday sitting down with the the president and CEO of strategy and him saying in the interview that when they first went to their accountants and attorneys for strike their preferred shares, they basically were like laughed at them. They're like, you can't do that. They're like, no, we can do this. And this is like just the beginning. So you think about like they can sell MSTR shares at the market. It's a $21 billion plan for each one of these. But let's use the the 24 round numbers, 20 billion in shares at the market, 20 billion in convertible debt, 20 billion in preferred shares. What if they come out with one or two other products? I mean think about last fall they issued almost they raised almost almost 20 billion, somewhere between 15 and 20 billion in like 40 days. So what if they raise 100 billion in 40 days? And what what if several companies end up doing that eventually And then you have nation states at play. So that's that's what the iteration and the and the game theory and and these additional now like on stage conversations is is what I took away from it. Yeah, echo all that. Very, very enthusiastic group. I would say probably hundred, 150 people total. So it was pretty intimate. Industry leaders, politicians, legal folks and shout out to to the Bitcoin Policy Institute. It was a very high signal event. Great keynote speakers and some some interesting discussions. Hard not to come away from that day being incredibly bullish despite what you know. Again, the the near term noise around the price movement has been there was a palpable sense of to to. Quote the. Don of of winning like we this is this is what winning looks like. You know, having this this forum in the nation's capital where there's tremendous bipartisan support for embracing this asset and really. You know. I think a big part of this and why Trump in particular and, and people surrounding him are so excited about it is because it's, it's completely sort of the antithesis of what was the status quo around this asset and the industry. And, you know, reassuring a lot of the innovation. Like, you know, in the past few years, we saw great companies literally shut their doors in the United States because it was so hostile and adversarial. And so I think, you know, that alone is a massively bullish and positive signal that people in the admin, people in in DC understand that this is an area of innovation that we can't, we can't afford to just lose and have, you know, great companies and entrepreneurs and founders leave America because they don't feel safe operating here. And so I think, you know, it was just great to see sort of this, this, you know, moment, particularly, you know, right after the executive order from last week. There was there was just a sense of like we are, we are back on the right trajectory here in terms of, you know, this country really being in support of the asset and the innovation that surrounds the industry. So overall a great event. Sailor stock was great. Vivek had some some some great comments around Bitcoin being the hurdle rate, which we at early riders have have been reiterating for over a year. So nice to see that that that narrative is is manifesting and permeating across various thought leaders. The bit bonds presentation was interesting as well. I think it's, you know, you're going to, you're going to start to see a number of. Sort of. Plans or suggestions around the the clause in the executive order around budget neutral strategies. There's a, there's a number of things that we could do. Could you also? Before doing that, could you also just define what bit bonds are for people who might not be familiar? Yeah, so. Basically, you know, it's effectively creating new debt, but backing, you know, in in the proposal that Andrew Huns from New Market Capital was was putting forth, I think it's 10% goes into Bitcoin. And So what that allows you to do is it it allows you to lower the interest rate on the bond effectively. And so it in in some of what he was presenting, you know, a part of his argument and his thesis is like, you know, if we issue a ton of bit bonds, this will be massively accretive to the United States balance sheet over the long term. And he had some projections around bitcoins price. And you know, if you, if you are projecting, you know, and you think Bitcoin's price is going to go up over the long term and you're backing government debt with the Bitcoin, you know, there is a, there's a trajectory there that would allow you to offset a lot of the, the debt that we have. And so that is that was the core of his thesis was we could basically, you know, chop away at that 36 trillion in debt by issuing this new form of debt, which actually has a component that is going to appreciate over time as opposed to debase. And so that's at a high level sort of the, the thinking around it. And it's, you know, it's not too dissimilar from what sailors doing, right? Like he's issuing debt that's backed by Bitcoin. So it's, it's a similar concept, but it would just be, you know, led by the US government. Yeah. I think it's fascinating and it's not widely understood yet how Bitcoin could be a creative and offset the debt issue that we find ourselves in. Because for a while there's been discussions of what is the productivity miracle that may get us out of this mess. And maybe it's the Bitcoin miracle, right? Because it's still a $2 trillion asset and there's 900 trillion, probably quadrillion now at this point of global wealth and there's $37 trillion of U.S. debt. So it's not unreasonable to think that Bitcoin will grow from 2 trillion to 10 to 50 to $100 trillion. And that might happen over a decade. It might happen over 2 decades, but that number will become will grow. Even though the debt is increasing so rapidly and exponentially at the federal level, post GFC, Bitcoin might actually grow faster, which is a wild thing to think about and. And that was included in some of these forecasts in the presentation was like there was an assumption of over the next 20 years that 36 trillion will grow to over over 50 trillion. So that that is part of the thinking, I think. There's one caveat or kicker like keyword, is it for all of that? Because it's something I've been thinking about more as the recapitalization, the the, the Bitcoin miracle I think is right. I think it's recapitalization of productive debt, right? Because unproductive debt and there's a lot of it. You can throw any kind of Bitcoin in the in it and doesn't make it like I always just anchor back to the crazy. Whatever growman throws out. I think it's 2 trillion that was like just effectively like wiped away in the past 20 years in the war in Afghanistan. Like what's the gross? Like what's the productivity that's going to out? Like the asset will grow, but if you owe the interest and you have this debt, it's just going to grow alongside it. But if you have businesses, and this ties into like early writers and Tim joining on the advisor side of like this notion of there's going to be a lot of opportunities to infuse Bitcoin into debt structures, but productive, like where there's productive businesses that have that and they can offset it via the BTC setting for the debt accumulating it being lean. But that's the one caveat. It's like you can't just throw Bitcoin in any kind of debt and then it just fixes it. You have to have productive businesses and you know, you make the case the US will be a productive business. Yeah, it's interesting too. That will tie into the stated objective then of trying to get interest rates lower. So there's, I don't, I don't think we talked about it in too much detail yet, but $7 trillion of federal debt maturing over the coming months. And so the US government, if you're operating as a business, you want less expenses, right? So the US government wants less expenses. They were to refinance that debt. It would be an absurd number given where interest rates are currently. So it's interesting to think about. Trump has said publicly several Times Now that he wants lower rates. You know, the Federal Reserve likes to position themselves as independent. That's up for debate. But they haven't lowered rates yet. And I think there might only be one or two perhaps that are forecasted this year. But Bitcoin will play a critical role in the recapitalization of America. And so I'll be interested to see what happens over the coming months. Of course, we'll talk about it on the show as well. But the US government wants to get the interest rates down because they have $7 trillion of debt to refinance. Bit bonds potentially plays a role in that, where the rates come down because the Federal Reserve is lowering them, but also maybe because we have the hardest asset that ever existed to back part of that debt as well and that may bring in new buyers of the debt. So exciting times. I'm curious to see what comes with that. Yeah. I mean, if you, if I think if you extrapolate at all the insatiable demand that we've seen for MSTR bonds, I think there would be a ton of global demand for US issued BIT bonds. I think that's a safe assumption. I would like to buy my first bit bond. Jack, you take. Out you take out a loan yet? I knew it was going to come up. I haven't. Yet we're we're. At a good price for you. Market has given. You another gift. I know, I guess it's time. I just sleep so well right now, and I don't want to not sleep well anymore. But you know, I'm going to figure that out. I'm going to come to the show here pretty soon. I'll have a loan out for everyone to be. Yeah, for TLT entertainment purposes. One thing I wanted to talk about, though, was the Cantor Fitzgerald announcement, the partnership with Anchorage and Copper. So I don't think there's anything there yet in terms of there's nothing there yet in terms of this business being built yet. But it was at least an announcement to let the market know where Cantor is headed. And so they want to initially commit $2 billion of financing to institutional investors, you know, providing lending to institutional investors that hold Bitcoin and I guess other digital assets as well. And they selected Anchorage Digital and Copper as infrastructure and custody partners. Would be curious to hear what the group's thoughts are just on this move. I know Howard Lednick's been very vocal as an advocate for Bitcoin and one of the thing to call out as well as on their balance sheet, they have a ton of exposure to MicroStrategy and I think it's over a billion dollars of MicroStrategy shares. But anyways, what do you guys think of Cantor stepping into the ring, making this announcement, the other partners, etcetera? It seems like, I mean, it's, it's an announcement of, you know, the first steps of a plan. Basically they have concepts of a plan because if you remember, you know, Lutnick first announced this idea, you know, almost a year ago now in in Nashville at the Bitcoin conference. And we didn't really hear anything about it since then. And so I think this is just a preliminary step to actually put that process and and sort of new business line for Cantor into into real motion here, but exciting nevertheless. Yeah, I think that's that's actually like a key point to bring up is like these individuals that are at the highest seats a power that are creating the frameworks for this asset class are behind the scenes and their business dealings making very huge moves that we've never seen, right. Like it's always the thing, don't you know, like put your money where your mouth is. And ultimately Cantor there was actually really telling podcast that he did before. I think I think it was before the the before the, I think it was, it was before the inauguration. I think it was even before the election where he it was very like at the end of this pod. He's just like, yeah, Bitcoin, I have hundreds of millions and it'll soon be billions of dollars. It was just like foretold and if that's true that they know number goes up, well then naturally number goes up requires trading. You got to have infrastructure around exchanges and then also is going to require the ability to lend against the asset. And obviously like I think stables play a part into that. And so Cantor being an equity holder and Tether, the stable coin stuff that's coming about, and then also them putting this facility of 1 to $2 billion setting up where they're going to lend against the asset. It all just makes sense that they're preparing for this emergent kind of like growth in not only the number of the dollar terms of what a Bitcoin cost, but then also the amount of new entrants coming in from institutions all the way to individuals. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's all about incentives, right? And so everyone is self interested. And when you have people at the highest level that have material allocations to something, then they're naturally going to make business decisions that will benefit them. I I think that's that's the simplest way to distill any of this one thing. That we should get when we get an older gentleman on the pod, like somebody that's, you know, been around the block for a while. I'd be curious. I think this is probably true. It's just we're younger. Maybe have it and maybe you guys can tell me if you know, like, because we're so glued into what's happening at this new administration level and, and digital assets, like has it been seen before where the like arm's length business dealings are happening? And like, you know, so it because I think there's probably a component of social media and it just gets brought to light. And there's the, you know, there's the there's the researchers for, for kind words that are out there sleuthing through the Internet to, to call this stuff out and see it. But I just wonder if this is just an anomaly with this new administration or this is something that happens every four years where different people, they hand off their business dealings and then they kind of know what's coming from a regulatory perspective and they place their chips accordingly. Yeah, I mean, I don't know for sure, but I do know just, you know, with Wall Street in general, right? You have a position in something and then you go on CNBC and you talk about why it's a great position or why you want a certain outcome. Like I think of Bill Ackman in 2020 where he just went on and started crying about what was happening in markets and the economy, but he had like a massive short position on. So I don't think any of this is new. I think just there's a, this is how people operate. Everyone's self interested. At the end of the day, there is certainly some distinction between what is legal and what's illegal, but Wall Street will always talk their book well. But I mean, just to take it a step further, it's like Trump's children are literally managing his finances in the same where Howard Lutnick's two boys are managing. It's like you just you go to dinner like every night or whatever and it's just like, hey, you know, we're going to get this thing approved or not. Like it's easy going to get his part in because I got this investment, you know, like it's not, it's just a, it's very interesting. And I've never like really paid attention all this stuff. So I don't know, there has to be like context where this happens. Everybody just feels so like blatant, outright and nobody's like questioning or apologizing. We're just like, it is what it is. We're going to World Liberty 5. We're going to launch, you know, all coins. We're going to do the whole thing. And you know though. Liberty, whatever it's called, they they're down significantly on some of the the investments that they made probably a month, month and a half ago like into Ethereum and all these other altcoins. I think they're down like 60 to 70% on that portfolio. Yeah, it's not. Like it's not like it benefited though. Not yet, Not yet. Speaking of down. Significantly, not down significantly, but I think it might be on the red on my strategy position. So Tim Kotzman Oh, no, I want to hear, I want to hear what the group had to say this week in the MSTR True North. What, what were you guys talking about with strategy also secondary? Question if your price prediction for Bitcoin is 1,000,000 by the end of 2025, what is MSTR at the end of 2025? A. Million, maybe 2. $3000 a share on MSTL. Everyone was bullish. Yeah, I mean, it's only a 10X, but yeah, I mean, I'm not glad. Can you be a 20? X if it's if. It's yeah, he's saying $30,000 a share by the end of the year. So that's are we saying that gladiator? All right. Well, yeah, yeah, but. But I want a serious person, Tim. Here's Here's the reality to quote Ryan McGinnis, I was talking earlier about how theoretically strategy could come out with like $100 billion capital plan. They. Keep. Iterating like that's possible. You have the bit bonds that we were talking about and I think the example that Andrew put up there was like issuing 200 billion. I mean, you just throw a couple other examples like that in there, whether it's companies, whether it's a country doing bit bonds before you get to that trillion dollar number. And right now bitcoins only a $2 trillion market cap. I mean, I think that should illustrate how early we are and and kind of what's potentially at play over the next couple of quarters. So Jackson. Should he should add to his MSTR position? Is that what you're saying? Not financial advice, yes. I'm just going to have to get wrecked for the for the show's purpose. I'm just going to take out like a massive loan, just dump all my Bitcoin and buy micro strategy something. Like. Dats and strats. Yeah, Tim, I I like secretly want Jackson to use as much leverage as possible so he has to work for on ramp for the rest of his life. It's not a secret anymore. All right, Where do we go from here? That's the question that everyone wants to know. One thing, Michael, maybe you wanted to discuss was what's going on with finance. I haven't gotten a chance to look into it much. I think, you know, you were able to dig into it a little bit, but anything you discern from that or I guess a, could you just level set and tell us what what it was and then any thoughts on it? I mean, I guess. Like high level, there's just not enough infrastructure in the space. So we see it. I think there's rumors of a lot of MNA happening. There's a lot of public IP OS coming up that are rumored as well. I think bit go, I think these are public that came out bit go cracking and maybe one other firm, maybe it's Gemini in like targeting Q 12026. So a lot of appetite to get to the public markets now that this has been de rest and then a lot of bets just being made around capital infusements getting exposure to get close to it, right. Kind of first step in an acquisition sometimes is get exposure, do the diligence, figure out what it what makes sense and then acquisition you're close there. So there was two versions of finance that came up this past week. There was the GMX investment that we touched on, which is just kind of like global arms race on getting access to these businesses that are going to be, you know, the future infrastructure. Frankly, I think we talked about a lot on this part about, you know, it's and this stuff is so like alien when you really break it down from custody to manage volatility and everything in between that you're really going to need a native firm to help you and support your traditional business. So there's that aspect. And then there's just rumors swirling around since I think the end of last year that Trump's team was looking at Binance US and Binance US has been mired and a bunch of like regulatory and just wrapped up in a bunch of red tape because of where CZ was in with him get I think it was a 7 month sentence. I don't even actually know if they fully I should know this, but if they're fully been, you know, like shut down the business or stopped operations. I did talk to somebody from there that was key in helping that business go from like 50 to 500 people. And it was I this is all public, but that they were like top three exchange by volume globally at in 21. So they're the real deal. But obviously the administration and all the things associated kind of slow that down with CZ. So Trump was rumored to be talking with them or their their team. So I guess it's from rumored like making some acquisition or, or, or investment. And then I guess it came up that also in parallel. And I think they're denying it. But then the Wall Street Journal's like has first hand reporting that that CZ's lobbying to get a part in. And so it just brings up that similar thing like, well, if you're going to, you know, make the investment in the part. And because I would imagine CZ still majority shareholder in Binance US. And so it kind of makes sense where like UAE has to go and they put $2 billion in because he can come in what he wants. Another sovereign probably wants exposure to that, but then there's strategic relevance of that part of the world in the same way Binance US is a segregated entity. And that if you know, Trump's camp wants exposure to that and all the things associated, right? There's not that many exchanges, reputable exchanges, you'd say Coinbase is one of them. Then you may want exposure to that because it's going to be relevant from an acquisition perspective or just to be a market leader as digital assets become more adopted in the US. Yeah, I think it's generally positive from the like the competitive perspective of, you know, what you're referencing around, like Coinbase has, has largely dominated the US market from an exchange perspective. And finance had had tried at, you know, various points to infiltrate the market and, and really compete. And due to all the, the red tape and hostility towards them, they weren't really able to do that. So I think from that perspective alone, I see it as a positive sign of like, yeah, like let let these large crypto native firms compete domestically here, give people more options. That's always better. And so, yeah, I, I think it's more signaling than anything because it's not like finance needs the money. So it's just, you know, various sovereigns getting, getting their hands into the, you know, the infrastructure, the picks and shovels as you referenced. Well, but it. Reminds me of cantors investment in tether. We all know Tether doesn't need the money, but it's like I, you know, it's like I need your blessing to come operate here. And so it's this pay for play style thing. And that's where it goes back to like how much has that happened before versus now in real time? But either way, it doesn't matter. It's just the economic reality. It's just super fascinating to see that. Tim, I'm curious if you have thoughts on that. Actually, I wanted to see what if you guys had any reaction to about an hour ago, the Genius Act stable coin bill passed out of Senate Banking Committee. Do you want to share with that Bill is or what? Yeah. I just know it's a stable coin bill. It's about all I know. It seems important. I mean, that's, it seems like that's a priority for them. I, I think that was the way they've been signaling and posturing. They want to get that done 1st. And so it's, I think it's, I would be surprised if that doesn't pass because it's super blatantly aligned with US interests betting, spreading dollar dominance, leaning into stable coins, putting rules of the road and frameworks around what people can do. I mean, I haven't looked at the intricacies of the bill, but that's, that's not surprising to me that that's going to be pushed forward. We should follow. Stables more they're the least interesting, but they're also the most interesting. Like they're least interesting from an innovation from Bitcoin or the value prop, but they're the most interesting because it's obviously what they're invested in getting for dollar dominance and all the things. But it's actually super scary when you think about it because I think what like the middle of the curve will think about digital surveillance is like, we're already surveilled, right? Like our credit cards and all the things. But the reality is it's all disparate data, right? So you go to your banks, they don't talk to each other banks unless you get some kind of court order. You have your visa, you have like all these things and the data isn't all like compiled and collapsed on to each other. And so think about if you're actually have a playbook for bitcoins growth and all the things we just talked about, Well, not only you're going to streamline the liquidity via these tables, but you're going to streamline all the data, all the analysis, all the choke points, all the ways you're going to cut off everything via these tables. So it's actually like it's going to pump the market, but it's also just going to provide so much more oversight and overreach versus what people. So it's like there's just a dance happening right now that it's bullish, but it's also kind of bearish from an Orwellian perspective because we're all this kind of goes is a lot more to not technocracy than people are expecting. That's for a different show. Find out next week on the last trade. Well, we get it. Jackson I wanted to throw a TV's or something else to chat about which is really elucidating the fact that we are so early and not from like us as individuals. It's this notion of if you are active in this space, you're a business professional, whether you want to build or join a firm. I met with banks this past week and there's this notion we we can talk briefly about it with the OCC kind of rescinding a lot of the like letters that they sent out around custody stables. And one other thing that we're just kind of hindering. This is pre, this is post SAB. This is just like letters that they send that are mean letters, but they effectively keep you from ever doing anything in the space because you got to look over your shoulder. But the problem is that similarly with banks and when I'm going to throw it to you, Jackson on the RA front is both sides or proxies for like this notion of because the government was always involved and it could be banned or this notion it could be banned. They just like have not paid attention. They just always assumed they don't need a strategy and they've just been caught flat footed and they all have no plans or ideas outside of like .1% that has just been active knowing that this is has inevitability. And so just curious like Jackson on your side on the the RA side, like what have you seen? What's your experience there to help like just listeners understand that they really have no plan yet outside of like maybe we'll do an ETF and then I can touch a little bit if it makes sense on the banking side? Yeah, On the banking side, one thing we can come back to there is just an interesting stat we'll tie into. What we'll discuss is there is about 8000 commercial banks in the US before the great financial crisis and now there's about 4500. So it's like over 30% decline in commercial banks in less than two decades. So that'll tie into the bank discussion. On the RIA side, there's a massive opportunity. So if there are any advisors that work at independent Rias, that's really where the opportunity is for now. I think the wire houses are going to be slower to adopt. They have been certainly with the ETF in the past year. But if you think about Bitcoin and its distribution right now, it's 70% held by individuals. And so these are individuals that in many cases have pretty significant exposures. And Bitcoin right now is about $80,000. That number 70% held by individuals will likely decline over time just as you have nation states institutional allocator step in. But I do think by nature of how the asset is currently distributed and also the investor behavior with it as well where a lot of folks who own Bitcoin or long term and they don't really want to sell it. We see this all the time with our client base. They want to hold it for generations, which is why inheritance is such a big value prop of the business. But beyond that, what that means then is you have 70% held by individuals. These are people that have couple 100,000 couple million couple 10 millions of dollars in Bitcoin. And maybe they haven't engaged with a financial planner or a wealth manager before, but maybe they do. But their financial planner doesn't know anything about Bitcoin. So it's kind of salary in their relationship since it's becoming a larger portion of their portfolio over time. It's just leading to worse outcomes because the advisor doesn't know how to advise on the allocation. They don't know how to think about it from a trust perspective. And so where this ties into an opportunity and what we're seeing with Rias is any RIA that is Bitcoin, not even first, but Bitcoin friendly and Bitcoin knowledgeable and can speak to their clients about what the asset class is. How do you think about it from a planning perspective? How does it fit into a portfolio? There's just such a tremendous opportunity here because there's probably, I could probably count on both my hands, firms that actually have a very defined Bitcoin strategy within the independent RAA space. And there's thousands of firms in the country. So one thing I would point to is if you're working within one of these organizations and we can be a resource just on the purely on the education side, if we could just talk to people in your firm and explain the asset class independent of even working with us. Beyond that, there's an opportunity here for advisors to really lead the charge A for helping people that have material Bitcoin exposures today, but then also being able to really set the stage and pioneer what this will look like within the broader wealth management space. So I think it's incredibly exciting. It's incredibly early as well. It ties back into where we talked a little bit of earlier. We're kind of moving from this point of skepticism within traditional finance, within Wall Street politics to embracing we've, we've crossed the chasm at this point and things are going to move very quickly. So it's just prudent, it's wise to kind of get ahead of it because the opportunity is now there's probably a window like we're already seeing this a lot with our A's, but there's still a window of opportunity that but that's going to close certainly over the course of probably the next year or two. Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest themes that we got lulled asleep by is accepting that centralization is organic or natural and will continue to persist. So whether it's Raas and aggregation, whether it's banks, you mentioned the 8500 that exist. The reality is if you probably looked at the AUM of those banks compared to the top four, it's like a Pareto distributed, right? Roughly when you think about Big Tech Magnificent 7, I was again having a conversation with somebody that works in retail and explaining like their shop now looks like the aggregation of like their shop looks like seven other shops, but in one because it's a big box retailer and they ultimately had to like everyone's gone out of business. So you think there's a section for RadioShack like this Aggregation is inorganic. And it just comes down to when you have centralized money, monetary policy, it will aggregate, but when you have a decentralized money, it will disaggregate. It will be out to the to the margins, to the edges. And So what Jackson shared is the individuals hold the vast majority of BTC, at least for the foreseeable future. They will continue to because of the quickest to make the move to adopt larger and larger positions because it's a single individual. And if that's to be the case, the individual is who you want to cater to, but nobody in this space actually caters to the individuals. And that means you have to build products and services for those. Those individuals are by nature the most sophisticated simply because again, they still hold the asset. So just by holding it long enough, you're saying that you're educated because you didn't lose it with finance or FTX, Celsius, etcetera, etcetera. And so that's really the opportunity. On the RA, similar to the banking side is what the B and YS and large banks are going to do is try to play the same game of aggregation. They'll make an acquisition, they'll of a bit go or whoever. And then that aggregation will be like, you know, sub custodial modeled out to challenger banks and it'll all look the same and it'll look like omnibus and it'll just be a natural way that they traditionally manage assets. But from an RAA or a challenger bank perspective, you can actually offer services that are more aligned with what somebody will actually want for their personal wealth. Meaning like cigarette segregated wallets on chain, multi institution custody, the ability to lend, but in a way that is a creative and makes sense for the longevity of holding that asset and not putting it at risk. So I just see this is an insane opportunity and it's going to be a land grab because ultimately those first Ras or banks that are able to say, hey, not only do we have not only do we are saying this isn't a stigmatized asset, it's not radioactive. Like we're friendly to it. But then when they build best in class differentiated products are going to build their future proofing their business, they're going to be market leaders. But it's we're still so early in that, that that cause or that, you know, kind of working through it. Totally. Well before we wrap up, is there a single point of failure of the week? I didn't come across one but I also have been spending a very limited amount of time on Twitter because it's just AI have a cesspool on there. I have a. Sad 1 So like at the end of the day, I guess we'll do like what honor and provides is Peace of Mind that that's the ultimate catch line. If you're coming to us, you want Peace of Mind from getting educated, so you protect your wealth all the way to Peace of Mind that all day long there's different attack vectors in your exposure. And we had a client that I worked with previously, He found us, worked with Jackson, didn't even know he actually had onboarded Jackson made an introduction and had a good conversation with him about two months ago. And he was very jovial, excited, work with us, recognized where we came from, the ethos that underpinned what we did. And so it was a good conversation. And sadly, this past week, we found out that he passed away and I was looking into his obituary and it was really sad because he's a brave guy that never told anyone that he had terminal cancer, aggressive terminal cancer, except for his partner. But he came to us a few months ago with the realization that he didn't want, he wanted to give. He wanted to have Peace of Mind, but he also wanted his partner to have Peace of Mind to be able to find a savings. And it really just underpinned this thing that we talked to individuals about. But when it like hits home, when it happens and then somebody comes and you're able to not only take care of it, but not have another thing to worry about when that happens with the laundry list of other things that you have to deal with when someone passes is the one that comes to mind that I think is important. It's sad, but it's it is a true. It's what we've been talking about. We joke around a lot about the plastic devices and all the other things, but the reality is like this is people's wealth, this is their livelihoods. This is generational capital for individuals that they've worked their whole lives for. And it's the last thing they want on their mind is to be able to go to sleep, go to sleep at night, trying to worry about are they going to be able to pass it? We have a lot of other things to worry about in our lives. Yeah, yeah, incredibly sad, really good guy. But it was well said, Michael. You know none of us and people listening, you generally don't have plans for anything to happen, but you just never know. And it really does become about Peace of Mind at the end of the day. So well said to to finish up on a more positive or a humorous joke. We, we may or may not see you all next week in the last trade. Do you want to? Do you want any guesses as to why? I have no idea. No idea what you're talking about. Well, if people don't like and subscribe to the podcast, I'm just not going to show up. I'm not going to get out of bed. So what I what I would like to see is some more people subscribe to the podcast, more people throw us some likes. Whether it's on. Spotify Apple Podcasts, if we're adding value would go a long way to to show the gratitude if you could do that or else I'm just not going to do the show anymore. And if you. Comment and YouTube. If you comment on YouTube, Jackson will will go and respond to each one. And next week there's a lot of individuals coming into Austin for South by Southwest. So if you're around, shoot us a note. We'll see if we can meet up. We'll be downtown having meetings with folks in town. All right, Maybe we'll see you next week. Find out. Thanks for. Listening to this week's episode of the show, if you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that On Rat Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private client advisors.
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