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Thank you for joining us today. We're excited to bring you a brand new show from the On Ramp Media. Umbrella wake up call. Is a weekly show that will be streamed live on LinkedIn every Monday morning. To catch the premiere of each episode, follow On Ramps LinkedIn page and add Wake Up Call events to your calendar. After the live premiere on LinkedIn, we will distribute each episode across On Ramp Media's podcast channels. And YouTube page wake up. Call aims to educate financial professionals on the merits of the Bitcoin investment thesis, how this asset represents both a threat to legacy financial service businesses and an opportunity to differentiate oneselves and retain and attract new clients. Hosted by Mark Connors, Onramp's Head of Global Macro Strategy, and Rich Kerr, Onramp's President of Managed Wealth, this show seeks to provide financial professionals the wake up call they need, prompt them to have an open mind with respect to Bitcoin, rethink their prior assumptions, become more educated on the topic, and learn from others who are already farther down this path. Mark and Rich bring a combined 60 plus years of experience across traditional markets and financial services and will share their unique perspectives and how their peers and colleagues can approach the realm of Bitcoin. Wake Up Call will feature guests from various backgrounds and industries will also share their own journeys to Bitcoin and how others can get up to speed. Now time for the show. Well, good morning everybody, and welcome to On Ramps wake up call. I'm Rich Kerr, President of On Ramp Managed Wealth and I'm alongside Mark Connors. Mark say good morning. Good morning, everybody and Rich, thanks for kicking off in usual wonderful form. Trying to look through what happened maybe over the weekend. You going to give us a little context? Yeah, you know, last week we started off with a bang. I no pun intended with an assassination attempt this week. We've got Joe Biden stepping down and I'm, I'm fascinated. Mark, I'd love your comments. Well, I think it's such a packed unprecedented in the last 30 years, at least you got to go back to Johnson's Great Society really to see another president not continuing your term, another person coming in, a candidate being assassination attempt, at least this time. And what we forgot about was crowd strike, you know, planes not taking off the airspace of the US becoming desolate because of a global glitch. So it's so much going on, we are not able to digest it all. And I think that's one thing that we want to do here on wake up call. It's just talk about the opportunity in the markets for asset managers because it's you can be distracted by what's fast but fleeting and then what really is the nugget to take away. So hopefully, Rich, when with Lauren's help today, we can get that done. Rich, I think you may be on mute. Rich, did you have the leaf blower going in the background? Did you have the? Leaf blower, hey. Sorry, that's what I have. Yeah, I've got all sorts of chaos outside the window here, so forgive me, but yeah. So it we do have the distinct privilege today of sitting down and having a conversation with Lauren Asmus. And Lauren is a chartered financial analyst and chartered alternative investment analyst who is the Vice President of Investment Research at Canterbury Consulting. Canterbury's a $38 billion firm, and they focus on high net worth, ultra high net worth, family offices, endowments and foundations throughout North America. And correct me if I'm wrong, Lauren, I think you guys serve clients through Canada, United States, Mexico, maybe maybe another country that I'm forgetting about, but a sizable firm and one that that has done a little bit of work on Bitcoin along the way. And, and so we're delighted to have you here today as a guest to, to talk a little bit about how investment advisors, investment professionals might think about Bitcoin and how you as a firm at Canterbury kind of came to your conclusions. And so welcome, Lauren, we're we're thrilled to have you. No, thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Mark. Pleasure being here. Yeah. Well, maybe let's start off with A2 part question. So how does a large firm, I I guess like Canterbury, arrive at a decision to evaluate an asset like Bitcoin? And then what notable attributes or or rationale stood out in developing a Bitcoin thesis for your firm? No, I mean it. It's a good question, question, Rich. You know, I think even just taking a step back, you know, when we're, when we're looking at a new asset class or a new type of investment strategy or, or whatever it is, you know, we, we come in with the mindset of, of having an open mind and having a curiosity to it. And I think you need to have that specially sitting in the in a manager research seat, due diligence seat, you need to be able to take in a lot of new information, information maybe you haven't heard before. And then you don't really trying to cast a wide net across a lot of different groups out there, a lot of different thought experts, you know, like yourselves within the Bitcoin space and, and, you know, questioning and, and prod and, and try to get down to the truth of things. You know, we, we, we have a slogan on the research side, question everything, you know, and then we, we apply that across all of the asset classes that we cover and that we evaluate on behalf of our clients. And so when it comes to, to Bitcoin and, and digital assets, you know, for us it, you know, it really started doing more work and, and, and, you know, creating an internal working group, you know, 3-4 years ago. And even before that on the research side, you know, I predominantly covered credit and fixed income for Canterbury, you know, which includes core bonds down to high yield, down to, you know, private credit and, and hedge fund oriented strategies. And you know, even prior to, to us formulating an internal group, it was having discussions internally on the research side of, you know, what is this Bitcoin thing? What, what, what is digital assets? How could this fit or not fit in a client's portfolio? And so it really started with that curiosity first and then developed as time went on and as the asset class grew into creating an internal working group. So we can bring in thought experts like on Ramp and others out there to, to really dig into the asset class and how it may or may not fit for clients. So I know that's a lot there, very high level, but happy to kind of get a little more granular or wherever you, you, you both would like to take it. Yeah, I, I mean, maybe I'll, I'll kind of drilled down. So when you think about the merits of Bitcoin, I mean, you obviously you guys have developed a, an opinion. You you got curious around it. You developed a thesis, you started thinking about how it fits into the overall portfolio. Ultimately, you're doing due diligence on various ways to access Bitcoin. You know, maybe maybe highlight some of the things that stood out in your process, you know, as it relates to Bitcoin in particular, any, any unique attributes or characteristics that that created an aha moment for Canterbury where you went? Oh, wow, OK, that's, that's really relevant. Or maybe there's maybe there's three, maybe there's five, I don't know. But I'd love to hear your thoughts there specifically. Yeah, and, and I'll just just copy out that, you know, opinions across our firm vary and we have really good discussions and so you know, my opinion could be different from somebody else's and, and, and our client too, right. So we have, you know, at the end of the day, we need to be a a solutions provider for our clients. And so it's really about us providing good solutions for clients. I want to access something like Bitcoin. And so yes, we have opinions, we develop thesises, but at the end of the day, we want to be open to a lot of different ideas and, and, and opinions. And so, you know, we're not trying to canvas our clients to go a certain direction all the time. It it's more of, OK, how would you like to pursue or how would you like to look at this? And then how would you like to pursue it? And it's our job to go it out there and find the best groups and, and best partners to, to do that for, for our clients. And so from a thesis standpoint, even just taking a step back and, and thinking about digital assets, you know, we had discussions a few years ago about if we were to do this, how, how would we bucket it, right? Where would you place it? Because it is a completely new, different, distinct, nascent still asset class, especially when you compare it to equities and, and fixed income and, and, and even alternate other alternative asset classes. And so for us, it was about, OK, one, you know, find a place where we can bucket this, but then two, you know, how are you going to, to access it? And so we, we really canvassed across groups that focus on Bitcoin, groups that focus on other digital assets. And then really, you know, trying to find your point earlier options that fit clients specifically for what they're trying to do. And I think my opinion related to to Bitcoin is it's a scarce asset and it's scarce because it can have a 21 million supply that is enforced by a decentralized group of participants that run the Bitcoin blockchain. And so the the same, and I just said, I think both of all of us on this call would agree, but that's something that we would then discuss internally with other groups and, and, and, and, and with other individuals at Canterbury. And so it's it's one having a thesis, doing some of the work, but then getting together as a group and then discussing some of these merits and and considerations. Yeah, that's awesome. I think for me, and I mentioned this in last week's, you know, when you recognize the scarcity component of Bitcoin and you start to really evaluate the monetary policy of Bitcoin, all of a sudden everything starts to really click. And, and so that that rings true with me. I, I'm curious about return characteristics and, and, and volatility. And maybe, you know, there's a lot of people that believe that volatility is, is a feature and not a bug, you know, But that being said, I'd love to kind of hear your, your impression of the return characteristics and the merits from that standpoint. Yeah. I mean, the work that we've done and you know, there's a lot of other studies out there that show this, even even if you have a very small position in Bitcoin, you know, 1-2 percent it, it moved, it has historically moved the needle on your risk adjusted returns to, to the upside. And I think with volatility that, that is something that we get in terms of consideration. But as in the day, it comes down to portfolio sizing and, and, and how to think about managing that volatility within the context of the fully diversified portfolio. And so it, it, it's interesting, right, because you have this asset that has historically been one of the better performing assets, you know, over the last 10 to 14 years, but the volatility has also been very, very high. But then at the end of the day, you look at the shark ratio or the risk adjusted type of return that you're getting and, and it's still very, very attractive. So it all comes down to how you size and how you position it. And then also just really at the end of the day, setting expectations and making sure that we're covering all of the risk factors with our clients on Bitcoin, right? There's, there are numerous risk factors and, and volatility is one of them. And I think it's it's a matter of making sure that that is very explicit when we're having conversations with clients and also explicit when we're discussing this internally. Rich, can I jump in for a second here on on a couple of points. Lauren, you kick this off talking about being curious and it's great because we all say things like we want to work in a place that's forward thinking yet preserves capital and trying to balance those two aspects about, you know, the leading bleeding edge so you don't miss the next opportunity versus, you know, preservation of capital, which is one of the larger not for your firm, maybe not, I mean, not in particular to your firm, but most asset managers there was to to change it to make an analog to another period, another active manager versus the firm like yours. In the 90s, I worked with a firm called Dawson Sandberg as a salesman. And so they were very big into tech and one of their key features was that they had this very large fund called the Scout Fund. And they had this very unique PM who was just could look at a lot of factors at once. I think there were hundreds of names in the portfolio, but he would size the opportunities, look for trends. And it was basically his fishing pond and it was a fishing pond for the principals of the firm and he would bring things in and manage them. It was the one of the better performing funds of the entire firm, but they couldn't scale it because the opportunities were so small. So when we look at that analogue to one of the more successful tech firms from the 90s looking at new opportunities in an evolving asset class or an evolving industry, tech related, Internet related. When you say curious, what are some of the processes that you, Lauren in particular or the firm engage in to make sure that that curiosity is being fed? That's a good question, Mark. It's, it's really a cultural thing. And that's, you know, one of the reasons why I've, I've really enjoyed being at Canterbury. And, you know, I've been with the firm for now over 11 years. And it's the fact that we have as a firm this natural curiosity to learn and to get better at what we do and, and provide the best type of service we can for our clients. And I think it's having the mentality of a, of a yes. And so yes, let's let's look into Bitcoin and then what should we do to make sure that we're doing it the right way and, and, and analyzing it in, in, in the most pure form versus no, this is too volatile. No, this is an innocent funny money, you know, magic Internet money facade. So I think it starts from this, from the very, very beginning of saying this is interesting. Let's look at it. It may not lead to anything, right? It may not lead to clients allocating, it may not, it may not produce any sort of defined outcome. But I think it's our job as a consultant to have a curiosity, be open to new ideas, because that's to your point, Mark, you need to be early on some of these things to, to, to really, you know, potentially enjoy the fruits of, of that investment. And if you have this, this no mentality at the start, you, you're just never going to never going to get there. And so, you know, bringing that all back, we're, we're in the, in the, in the job, in the market of finding best solutions for our clients to produce the best types of risk adjusted returns and, and meet their outcomes of what they're trying to do as an organization, you know, where, where they're effectively their investment arm. And it's up to us to make sure that we're doing that in the most appropriate way. And that you need to have a very open mind to, to, to really do this, this, this job, this role. Lauren, one of the more authentic answers and for the people listening, we we've only spent a few minutes prepping for this call. Everything's live. How many people, Rich Kerr, have you heard in our field say yes? And which is a very nuanced way of approaching something. It means that I have to have the temerity to be wrong, the temerity to not have everything line up to my existing protocol or my existing process in my firm and not have all the answers. But over time, that type of approach is that is part and parcel to an open mind, someone that does bring it this love that that the fact that you you answer the question by stating it comes with a mindset and then it goes to our process as a firm. Great. Thanks, Lauren, for that. Absolutely. I think it relates to on a personal level, right of, you know, I would, you know, say all three of us on a personal level probably took an attraction to Bitcoin because we had this yes and mentality of OK, there's something here. Let me look into it. Let me do my own research and, and figure out what what's here. And maybe it's nothing, but the fact that we're on this call. I, I think we, we maybe at least personally my opinion, we think that there's potentially something here. Yeah, it's a it, it certainly rings true with me, right. I think we were all, all three of us, you know, came from a traditional finance background in, in slightly different roles and spaces. And you know, it, it's, it's that intellectual curiosity that really helps tremendously, right. It, it's the way that we connect with clients. It's also the way that we evaluate, you know, our processes to support and and do well by our clients. And so no doubt about it, Lauren, I just, I loved hearing your response there. So, you know, maybe maybe this is a good point in time for a little disclaimer, because we obviously are talking about Bitcoin and, and I think it's important to always highlight that it that whether you're an investment professional and or not an investment professional and, and tuning into this live, live feed, it's important that you do your own research. And, and nothing that we're Speaking of here is construed as an investment recommendation for you. Everybody needs to have those conversations with their own financial advisor and, and evaluate whether or not it's right for you as an individual and, or as a firm. And, and so we're here just kind of building our strength and understanding around Bitcoin, how it integrates into financial services firms much like Canterbury, but also how it ultimately falls into the portfolio. So thank you for let me just take a little aside. So Mark what, what other things are you curious about as, as we sit here and, and have a conversation with Lauren about, you know, his process and, and maybe the broader Canterbury approach? So thanks for that, Rich. As, as Rich said, we all come from different backgrounds and mine was more on the hedge fund and institutional side as a hedge fund manager for a short period of time. But Moore as a chief risk officer at several hedge funds and then as a strategist speaking to funds from the platform of a bank that no longer exists, which speaks to the, you know, growing fragility of the banking system. So I bring that up as a launching point because Lauren, when you're speaking to people, it's hard to change process and say, hey, if you're, you know, if you only understand English. I'm going to send you a message in, you know, Greek or Spanish and maybe you can't take it on. So I've heard you talk about sharp and Sortino ratios when you approach Bitcoin with clients or even at an investment Policy Committee internally. What literally what's on the paper, just assuming it's going to start with a report and then you'll discuss to it. Is it numbers? Is it a fundamental view? What what what is the best way to, I'll call, create that attachment or that engagement with someone for the first time? Yeah, I know it's, it's really a, a wide range of, of things. And maybe, you know, from an, you know, from an internal perspective, you, you always hear, right, the institutions are looking into the SAS of class, right? They're doing their due diligence. They're, they're, they're putting in the work. You know, what does that entail, right? What, what, what actually goes on and really it, it, it's a really irritative process where, you know, it's, it's, it's a process that can take months to even over a year. You know, like I said, we, we started our internal working group four years ago. And so, you know, we have monthly or, or, or, or every other month committee meetings where we all get into a room or, or a zoom and, you know, we'll, we'll prep certain materials that you to talk about, given manager that's in the space or, or just, you know, the ask class in general. And then it's, it's a mix of things, right? It's looking at historical performance risk. It's bringing in thought experts and having them talk to our committees and any of their viewpoints and, and making sure we get a diverse group of, of people coming in and, and, and hearing different types of views as well. I think that's really important. And then it, it's just having those, those frank discussions at the committee level of, you know, what are the merits? What are the considerations? Is there anything we're missing? And then, you know, going back and forth with, with other thought experts out there and, and, and kind of getting more and more granular as you go. And so it, it does take a while. You know, there's, at the end of the day, it's a committee process, right? So you need to get buying from a lot of different types of, of stakeholders and people within the organization and, and people are at different levels of their education with Bitcoin or with what really with any other asset class. And so it's just a, it's just a time thing where it's like you're trying to get a internal consensus within your organization. And it's very different from on the personal level, right? Like you, I, you're rich, Mark, we can do our own research on Bitcoin and, and figure out what we want to do for our own personal stakes. And, and, but from a institutional side, when you're trying to get consensus and, and also from a fiduciary mindset of this is potentially going into client portfolios, it just needs to be more thought out and, and, and more more formalized. At Onramp, we believe that Bitcoin is the most important asset of the 21st century. The hard part is securing it right. There are shortcomings with keeping your coins on an exchange, but also with setting up your own self custody arrangement. Onramp solves for these concerns. Our multi institution custody solution maximizes security and minimizes counterparty risk, ensuring that your Bitcoin remains securely in your possession and provides built in inheritance planning to ensure your family is protected as well. On Ramp provides Peace of Mind for your Bitcoin journey, whether for your whole stack or for part of it as a compliment to your existing self custody set up. For more information, check us out at on rampbitcoin.com. Yeah, it's, it's such a great point. You know, it's, it's interesting you were talking about the, you know, the due diligence process and it may take months or it might take upwards of a year. Oddly enough, I had a conversation with a very large firm earlier or about a week ago today. And that being said, they have been developing a thesis since 2021 where and it's very deep, right? Like they're, they're going along the process and, and they're exploring the right things and they're, and they're bringing the right materials forward to educate the investment committee, but they still haven't arrived at that decision. And part of that right is you've got different generations that live inside of a large firm, right? You may have a principal that is, you know, has had and built tremendous success, you know, you know, doing things traditionally and, and within their ethos and, and their investment philosophy. And this is something so new, right? It, it's a new asset class. It is something, although it now has 15 years of track record, but it is a new asset class that requires a, you know, a different way of thinking. And so it's fascinating to me to watch how you have, you know, research analysts or portfolio managers or whatever inside of a firm that have really strong conviction around Bitcoin. And then yet you still have to be able to make certain that everybody arrives at that same place in order to have the conviction and and put the firm's name forward in front of clients with the idea. Yeah. Well, at least even just fully understanding the, the, the, the risks and, and the opportunities, right. You don't need to be an expert in it to, to, to, to get that. But you, you do need to make sure that you fully understand what those risks and opportunities are very, very explicitly across and everyone across the organization understands that as well. And then I would just say, right, we're covering all asset classes, equity, fixed income alternatives. And so just from a time allocation perspective, everyone's very, very busy, right. Our consultants are working directly with their clients on different parts of their portfolio, us on research are, are, are evaluating different types of, of asset class and strategies consistently. And so just from a time perspective, I'm sure other groups out there have to have a similar, similar story where it's just you got to split up your time and there's only so many hours a day to cover the whole investment universe. So these things just take time. Yeah, no doubt, No doubt. It's interesting, though. It it certainly feels like things are picking up steam. You know, I think there's been tremendous curiosity about, you know, what is Bitcoin? How do I integrate it? Do my clients need it? You know, how do we address the the most common question when a client is curious about, you know, inflation or the debasement of their currency or whatever geopolitical matters that are causing them a degree of uncomfort or confusion, one or the other. And so Bitcoin seems to be a possibility that kind of steps in and gives people confidence that they're at least insulated in some way, shape or form. So we're seeing a lot more curiosity on the on ramp side from all sorts of institutions, whether that be investment consultants, advisors, family offices, certainly and, and, and even pensions. And so it's it's fascinating to watch that groundswell of curiosity kind of build and, and, and I'm excited to to see how that plays out. No, I think that's, that's right. We, we've seen something similar internally at Canterbury. You know, like I mentioned, you know, we, you know, initially started looking back, you know, 20/17/2018 during that cycle. And then, you know, we, we've effectively gone, most people within our industry have now seen, you know, at least two cycles of Bitcoin. You know, the, the ups and downs and the volatility and all that. I think the fact that it's, it's still here and, and, and you know, it's, it's continued to, to gain mindshare and, and market share. To your point, Rich, I, I agree. I, I think there there's just continuing curiosity to, to, to really dig in now and, and, and do more detailed work and, and look at this more closely. So Lauren, you Lauren Rich Rich asked you about you know, about the clients and and digging in to the bit to to Bitcoin for its own merits. Are you seeing anyone get curious about what's going on in the treasury market? You know, it's last, what, four years? It's down 3% annualized I think over the last three or four years about changes in, you know, is private debt the right place to go if there's no transparency or little transparency on on the underlying or history late stage cycle, you know, credit risk? Yeah. Are people. Because there's two things that like I ran to Bitcoin because I was running away from the other stuff that I was seeing. That's why I picked the book up because I saw, I saw the pathway narrowing and yeah, I didn't run to it. I ran from the other side. And are you seeing people still kind of clipping coupons, not worried and then getting slowly curious or are they concerned about purchasing power for their client portfolios going forward? That's a. That's a leading question, in case you couldn't tell there. No, I mean, I, I would say opinions vary across our client base and even with, with the groups that we partner with had a strategy level. And it's interesting, right, Because I think if you were to ask a fixed income manager, right, they're going to have very different views on fiscal deficits and, and they'll look forward basis for fixed income returns and where all that goes, right, versus talking about talking with the Bitcoin manager, right? They're going to have a very different view on where inflation is and, and the the value of the dollar going forward. And so it's really as a consultant, it's taking in all of those views, few points and making sure that those are conveyed to our clients. And, and, you know, trying to come up with, with the best, you know, diversified portfolio that, you know, at the end of the day, can, can fit in, in a, in a lot of different types of, of macro scenarios. And, and to be clear, we're not, we're not in the business of trying to forecast where the macro goes very, very difficult to do. You know, we're in the business of, of building diversified portfolios across a lot of different asset classes. And, and I'm working with the best partners and, and, and thought experts out there. And, and to my point O earlier, being open to different ideas. So no, I mean, you know, that's, that's how we view it. You know, really just just making sure that we're, we're open to all different types of viewpoints from the macro perspective. Yeah, and. You mentioned you know that your investment consultants are out there having these conversations with clients and, and you serve a, a, a wide set of clients. You know the high net worth, ultra high net worth, individual family office, endowment foundation, right? All different sets. Do you see one area or client segment that seems to be more curious about the asset and the inclusion of the asset in their portfolios over another? And and you know, I don't know whether or not you have that data or information in your role, but I'd be curious. Yeah. I mean, just anecdotally, we, we, it seems to be more from the family side where we've had a lot of more of the inbound interest in, in Bitcoin and digital assets in general, you know, but that's not to say that we haven't had some inbound interest from, from the E&F side too. You know, that that has, I would say has picked a bullet more as of late in terms of inbound interest or, or just questions from, from the, from those types of clients. And so, yeah, and I don't know if that has to do just with how clients are structured or, or kind of what their internal processes are in themselves. But but that's really been where we've seen at least, you know, inbound interest today it is more family oriented. But no, I think to your point, right, we, we saw news of a big pensions allocating a small percentage to Bitcoin and there seems to be some sort of news newsreel every month now of, of some other large organization and really kicking the tires on the asset and, and doing the, the, the deep dive. So and that I you know, my opinion that that's what we expected as you see the asset continue to grow and and be be more formalized. ETFSI think I've had a large part of that too. There's been improving January, February earlier this year that has really institutionalized the asset class. And then you have big groups out there that are actively promoting it and and and have their own products around it. And so that that all gives more and more credibility to to Bitcoin. That's very helpful and it and it makes sense, right? I mean, if you think about the origins of Bitcoin, it always it felt like everything was coming grass roots up versus, you know, being driven by banks in Wall Street, you know, from its beginnings. And so stands to reason that that curiosity is certainly there. But I, I do agree, you know, the, the curiosity of, of institutions, especially at once. We saw Swed make their announcement in May with their allocation. And while I'll be at a small allocation, you know, a very sizable allocation in dollar terms. And so that being said, it's, it's, it's got a lot of people paying attention and, and saying, OK, well, how the, how, you know, asking the questions that you're sharing with the audience today on, you know, how to, how do I do this? How do I do it smartly? How do I do it within my fiduciary responsibility and and ensure that I'm vetting all sources of ways to access Bitcoin in a portfolio or other assets in the crypto space I suppose. Everybody, everybody should have a Co host like Rich Kerr because you just brought a full circle back to my point about Dawson Sandberg with a scout fund. Now SWIB is a successful 9th largest pension fund. They have a setup that interfaces with Wall Street. And what what they did was a scout fund. They put 110th of 1% in. They said, let's see how you swim with the rest of the fishies in our portfolio. And that's exactly what they did. You know, to Lauren's point about being curious, they did the work. They're not wed to it. They're they're dating it. And that's exactly, you know, from the allocation standpoint, they've done enough to say, let's go. And it'll be, that'll definitely be. And we are watching the Edgar filings on that position up and down to see how it passes muster within SWIM. What you know, Bitcoin is one of the, at least from my experience, one of the few ask classes where it really came from this grassroots bottom up versus top down Wall Street. You know, when, when when we did our initial work, it was more from the curiosity point of this is interesting. This is different. It wasn't because some firm came in and said, hey, you should really look at this. We have a product that you know, we think may fit with your client. It was, it was more of grass roots. This is interesting. Let's do the work. And now you're starting to see groups like yourselves, you know, come in and provide really good institutional quality solutions for clients. Or typically it's the other way around, right? You get the product 1st and then you kind of see how it fits. This was this asset class is interesting from the bottom of grass roots. Now the products are starting to to come. Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. And I think that that's the right way to be honest with you, because it gets people into the space of, of asking questions of the asset and really learning, you know, what, what it is, how it operates, how it fits into the overall schema and, and more importantly, you know, the, the global situation that we're in. And so I, I think it's a, it's, it's a, it's a fascinating, fascinating time to be alive and, and to get intellectually curious about everything that's coming down the Pike. And Bitcoin just seems to have hit at the very right time for the world, in my opinion. But that being said, I know we're, we're closing in on, on our time. Lauren, any, any closing thoughts or perspectives that you think our audience might benefit from that that you'd like to share? No, I mean, thank you both for having me. It's great to, to be on, you know, I would just say that, you know, if you're evaluating Bitcoin or really any new emerging ass class, you know, just just keep an open mind and, and, and ask questions. And I think that's really how you get down to, to making a decision for yourself or for your clients. Is, is asking a lot of questions, ask, you know, asking the opinions of a lot of different types of, of, of people out there and then coming to your own conclusion. And, but the only way you do that is if you have an open mind, you have this, this curiosity to, to want to take in that information. So you know, to your point, rich bitcoins been around for 15 years, but it is still somewhat new for the traditional finance world and, and, and investment advisory industry. And so, yeah, I would, I would just say just keep an open mind as you're doing your own work on the on the asset. Yeah, and there and there's so many great partners out there that are are eager to help you formulate an opinion and and get the right resources to be able to formulate your own opinion. And that's really the critical piece of the equation. You know, Lauren kind of gave us some insights into Canterbury's culture, which is that intellectual curiosity. Just get curious about something and ask the questions and, and, and allow for competing ideas to be in the room. And, you know, I think that that's a winning, you know, culture in my opinion. And, and so think about your own culture as an RIA or investment consultant or whatever you might be, you know how it fits in. And, and I think you'll, if nothing else, be able to answer questions that clients bring to you in a really competent way. So do the work, right? Get curious. And and maybe one last thought, Mark, anything that we should be paying attention to this week? I know we've got Bitcoin Nashville, which in 2024, which is Lauren's backyard. So he's going to be, he's going to be hosting a lot of people. I'm sure he's like, no way. Nobody's getting in my house. It'll. Be it'll be, it'll be fun. But if anybody's out here in Nashville during the conference, happy to happy to meet and, you know, grab a coffee or, or just, or just meet up. But yeah, it will be pretty entertaining. Wild, but I think very impactful week in Nashville. Yeah. No doubt. And we've got rumors of Elon Musk landing in Nashville. Who knows whether or not he becomes a speaker, but Donald Trump is certainly going to be speaking and all sorts of speculation on what he might be talking about. I've seen things as crazy as the crazy, you know, maybe for the broader public, not so much for me, but I would. Talking about a potential backing of our or a Treasury reserve asset, Mark, any thoughts there on what we might see on that front? Yeah, you know, we always like to insert a movie quote here, Rich and Lawrence. So I would I would go back to Rocky Three. And the Clubberlang's prediction for the fight was pain. And I would say that that my prediction for the presidential election is not paying but printing. Whoever comes in is going to be spending regardless of party or person. And if anyone has access to some the 10 year, go look at what happened the day after Trump was elected to the 10 year on November 9th, the day after the election, it the the rate spiked like a 99.9 percentile move higher through 2%. And I don't know if it came back down again. So twin deficit Trump in 2016 probably won't be any different than what the Democrats have been doing. And we have data on that to share. This is not political. This is an investment in macro call trying to frame what's going on in the broader world and then bring on guests like Lauren to say, how is that information being on boarded. So I'll leave it with that, Rich, to say, look through the noise of what they're saying and go to the policy and then look at the numbers, look at M2, look at that and then look at the market. Standing, thank you for those closing words, Mark. We appreciate it. Lauren, we are so grateful that you took the time to join us today and share some of your thoughts. We may have you back again and press press the conversation at some point down the road. But in the meantime, thank you for hosting the what, 25 to 50,000 people that are going to be coming into Nashville. We're, we're, we're thrilled that you're there in the epicenter and welcoming everybody at the airport with, you know, cowboy hats and, and other fun things, right? Yeah. And, and we'll and we'll be there too. Lauren, front and center. We'll see you. Yeah, no, looking forward to Enrich. Mark, thank you for having me on. This was a fantastic discussion. Really enjoyed it and look forward to continuing our conversations as well. Great. Thanks, Lauren. Thanks, Rich. Cheers. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that Onramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only and nothing should be construed as investment or legal. Advice, regardless of where you. Are on your Bitcoin journey? We'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com/contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private Client Advisors.
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