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It all comes down to computers communicating. The information superhighway can be a confusing mix of on ramps and off ramps. Bitcoin is worthless artificial gold. Is it still rat poison? Probably rat poison squared. We need to get into the world of OK, this is actually foundational technology. What the Internet of money? Does is it creates a single network which can do a microtransaction to a. Giga transaction. The Internet is going to be one of the major forces for reducing the role of gun. The one thing that's missing that that will soon be developed is a reliable E cash. Hi everybody, thanks for tuning into another episode of Final Settlement. We had a fun and amazing podcast covering all things related to what happened this past week. No shortage of things happening with Tim Draper talking about or theorizing about a Bitcoin native fund denominated in Bitcoin. Obviously something early writers does, but also looking at the new Paul Atkins release that came out related to American leadership in the digital financial evolution. A lot of market mechanics and things changing in the space as well as stable coins and some of the pieces that have recently come out around free banking. Quick word from on ramp, we've had a lot of inbound and request booking via consultation and onboardings recently and sometimes folks necessarily may want to have some questions. They may have some thoughts around what is the insurance cover? Is inheritance built in? Is there additional cost? What does private client look like? And so we have a new resource page. If you go to our website under deep dives, you can find out a lot of this information, including a lot more like you know who the key holders are, the benefits of multi institution and who holds the keys. There's a lot of questions that naturally come up. I know there's a lot of listeners have been listening and following us for a while and we'd love to help you make that leap or at least educate the consultation or if you check out our website so you can go to honorandbitcoin.com. Hope you enjoy the rest of the show. And we're live. Welcome back gentlemen, my Co host Liam Nelson, Michael Tanguma. This is final settlement. Today is Monday, August 4th, 10:20 AM Eastern Time. How we doing, fellas? Another day in paradise. We got it. Looks like a little Bitcoin pump this morning. We are. A dump. I don't know where we went down after. Dump. It's so sad man. Like my wife was telling me over the weekend, like all bitcoins down and you know, it's fundamentally like a different thing when it goes from like 10K to 3K or you know, 64 to 17, but you know, 122 to 113 and like. We've dumped. We've dumped. Yeah, all the way down to the low one, teens. I think there's a good anecdote in that, though, that in the sense that like whatever volatility comes, the the detractors or the people are going to come back out and say that this thing failed and it's too volatile. I mean, I saw it somewhere. It seems like satire, but somebody posted like store of value with the kind of like, you know, set like, you know, ironic text or letters trying to be like, yeah, it's not a store value. And you like moved like $3000 and you're looking at 113,000 Bitcoin. It's pretty. It's going to be. It's just funny. Yeah, people try to find normies don't understand what store value really means. But I will say I did have a, just anecdotally, A normie friend reach out over the weekend who's been buying Bitcoin for over a year or so reach out and say that they were buying the dip. So there is, there's some learning going on understanding that not to get shaken out by a dip down to 112 and that's just a buying opportunity. If we're going to do normie anecdotes, I got a good one for you guys. Like this is our version of hanging out, right? And then we get to share stuff that we don't usually get to is so I'll make it really like tight. I had a nice lady in Austin used to cut my hair. She laughed, hadn't seen her in a while. She got stuck with the Asheville floods, ended up in Nashville. I'm in Nashville right now found her. And so she she between then and now. So it's been a few years. I got a text one day and it was like, hey, because I used to pay her in Bitcoin for the haircut and eventually was the price was like, you know, kind of like bleeding. And so it was funny because I remember it was like literally the last you knew it was like the bottom signal because the last haircut where she left, she like don't she looked. He didn't pay me in cash or like, you know, card. I was like, oh, fuck. And I'm like, I'm that guy. Just like selling her a Ponzi. And this is back in 2122, right? But but like 20-2 maybe. So I get here and between then and now I had gotten the text about like, Hey, do you want to invest in like suicide coin? And it was like from her about my friend has like a crypto token. It was like suicide. I didn't respond. I was like, whatever. So I find her in Nashville and I I was got her my haircut a month ago and I came back yesterday and I sit down and she was like, yeah, I never sold it. You know, the last time she was like, it's gone up. But we didn't talk much about Bitcoin. And she said, are you into those other Bitcoins or like those other Bitcoin things? And I was thinking about companies like, are you interested? And I was like, what do you mean? She's like, oh, you know, like the other tokens. And she's like, yeah, my friend, you know, she doesn't remember. She had sent me this text. And like, my friend got into the suicide token. It was suicide awareness, suicide. Pepe. I don't know. She just explained it. She's like, they sold it to the whole barbershop. And then he came back one day and was like, you know, it's all gone. She's telling me that she's like, they rugged me. But she. But the whole notion of all this is just explaining like that people still just don't get it. It's just all this crazy nihilism, all the stuff that we know, and they just assume everything is a different token, Bitcoins, no different than them all, and it's just going to take a long time. Yeah, no, it's unfortunate. The other Bitcoins out there, you got to be careful for those other bitcoins. He'll get you. But top news story of the day where this is where we're going to start. Michael, you brought this. This was our new chairman of the SEC, Paul Atkins made a speech, I guess towards the end of last week. This is titled American Leadership in the Digital Finance Revolution. So, Mike, what were your key takeaways from this speech from Atkins? Yeah. So I'll go to the key takeaways, but I think as you Scroll down, if you just do slow. So this was by Paul Atkins, the new SEC chair. First kind of bold bowl headline is evolution of capital markets from but wood to block and block chain. So he's referencing the New York Stock Exchange being enacted in 1792. So just breaking down how like capital markets need to evolve. You keep going. Just want to highlight a couple of the key themes that are in this. It's a it's a pretty incredible piece to see like where Gensler was to see Adkins come in forging the future America's leadership in the golden age of finance. So really breaking down the genius act and the working group of Trump and recognizing a lot of this piece was effectively them saying, hey, we're going to work to get what Trump is wanting to do is make BIC or US crypto capital the world. Like that's my mission onshore and crypto and you to hit the SEC. And so I'm sharing this like, you know, a kind of objectively by saying, I believe on all of it, but it's bringing back corporate structures around whether it's stable coins or token dumps or drops as part of that initial coin offering the airdrops you'll see here and then enhancing freedom choice among custodians and trading venues. I do think this is actually pretty interesting if you pause here because he references as I said before, the right to self custody ones, private properties, a core American value. I believe deeply in the right to use digital wallet to maintain personal crypto assets and for participate in on chain activities. He also references choke point 2.0. And then really there's a quote here, exemptive, possible exemptive behavior or other relief in addition to changes the rules themselves. I think this is kind of important because there's been, we talked about it a lot on the last trade, just the notion of a qualified custodian and what you know has historically been in securities law doesn't necessarily apply to digital assets and commodities. So it'll be interesting to see what they come back with. But yeah, I thought that was interesting. And then this one is also super fascinating, very Orwellian, but it says facilitating super apps, horizontal integration of product offerings. We obviously know China's, you know, the state of affairs with what is it, WeChat and and WhatsApp. And then here we know Elan and Axe is working on their integration, but there's also really bringing in securities into the notion. So tokenizing securities coupled with stable coins, Bitcoin that you naturally start to like have that all vertically integrated and then unleashing the US markets big beautiful on chain software systems. Again, going back to they want to bring everything on chain securities, everything, which is pretty interesting. And then fostering innovation, commercial viability is our true North star. So this was just a highlight we ran through it. I think a couple of quick notes, bringing crypto assets in distribution and capital formation back to the United States is a key pillar. Interior market participants have maximum choice when it comes to custody and trading solutions. They want to allow for further innovation around super apps specifically, broker dealers should be able to offer traditional securities trading, crypto trading and then updated and to antiquated regulations to better support on chains, you know, and decentralized finance applications. So basically getting more integrated between securities and tokens. Yes, I, I think my, my brain kind of goes in two different directions on this. I think the first sort of on, on the very positive side is, is what we have pulled up here just around custody and, and thinking about it from first principles from a more on chain or protocol native perspective. This is a line of thinking or or sort of line of commentary that was mirrored at BP is policy summit a few months ago with a fireside chat with Hester Pierce where she was effectively you're just willing to have an open mind around there may be protocol native ways to think about custody and security in basically an an advantage way relative to incumbent systems. And so I think that is one of the big takeaways for me, for me to from this speech as well as broader commentary that we've started to see from the SEC is like, we're just going to think about this from the foundation of, of these protocols themselves and, and be open minded to the notion that there may be better ways to custody these assets then, you know, just labeling A custodian A qualified custodian. And so that, that was super positive to me. The other side of where my brain goes with this is like sort of to, to the conversation that we were just having prior to this around the conflation of Bitcoin crypto. And it's like we're kind of cheerleading anything and everything under the sun here. We're going to tokenize everything. And so that that's where my more cautious side of my mind goes is like this kind of just furthering or exacerbating the conflation in the market of, of Bitcoin versus all these other things and really being like, you know, crypto forward, we want to be the crypto capital of the world, etcetera. That's where my like hesitation or caution would come around. All this is just like this does sort of exacerbate the the exact level of conflation that we were just just talking about. Yeah, my mind immediately goes to just this is going to increasingly just become the Wild West. And you saw a lot of those banks trying to write the regulations because they control for have a big say in the financial services of today. And and tried to outline the, you know, with, you know, the past administration try to outline what the new rules of the road should be for crypto assets as well. And kind of tried to do that with this administration too. You know, I think it will just be increasingly clear that the regulations will be LAX and they're really forwarding innovation. And that's kind of any, anything new under the sun. And as we know with a lot of new things, they're not necessarily always going to land it right the first time. And so with that, I would just be cautious of anything out there that it you should put your money in that will potentially be promising you the world and and isn't necessarily tested. Yeah. I mean, this is what we've been talking about. I specifically been saying like we live in the Wild West, we're increasingly going to live in the Wild West and it's kind of like by design is it reminds me of the whole who's they and people. It's not that there's like a whole orchestrated thing, but there are frameworks you think about like COVID is a great example, like how do they get everyone to just do one thing? It's like there is a there is like factions and there are there is inertia and part of the inertia comes to this. Well, I'll say something you guys might not believe or aligned with, but there are very senior people that believe Bitcoin, if it credibly enforces a 21 million hard cap supply will become or could become money. But they also recognize that that proposition is an insane proposition to most people. And what is more likely for them is to go and play in the in all of this stuff and and again, lose in real terms, while in nominal terms, they get wealthier and they're more incentivized to do that. Because imagine a world where all of this was super segregated. You understood Bitcoin that was the only crypto asset people could adopt it. Well, that is very disruptive to everything else that exists in the current system. So the conflation and all of that is a natural like byproduct of how do we prop this thing up and let it stick for 10 to 30 years. And this is something Brian, I think is coming further around too. This is something Brahm is really away from. It's like This is why gold is going to persist much longer than everyone expects because it's just been built into everybody's models and there's the way that their sovereigns have been storing well. And so to just like believe that they're just going to like bypass it and give it all up. And everyone's going to go to Bitcoin and like they're going to, there's going to be this natural just like opaqueness that exists and people will slowly understand Bitcoin. They'll slowly realize, OK, I just store it. But there are certain people that just basically understand like that simple, the simplicity of I just buy Bitcoin and I go back to my life is such an insane proposition to the state we're at that they get that. And that's what like all this is about. 100% that this is bringing a lot of regulation and clarity to all those other bitcoins that your hairdresser is interested in. And this will be a great way for those other bitcoins to get some more regulatory clarity and that they have eventually look to market in their own different way. And you know, it's going to be something that is perceived to have value just like suicide awareness. But in the end, it just is a way to, you know, take money away from just hardworking people. Yeah, the the core mental model of all of this, and I'll go down with the ship if I'm wrong is 2022 was the dry run FTX and all of that was the dry run for the level of shenanigans and losses that we're going to see. Don't know the year, don't even care the year because just going to invest and build in the product. So we already know the beauty of like being early enough to see everything fall apart and also not ruining your credibility and not rugging anybody and then just building a conservative way. And we talk to people all day long that listen to us and they say, I get it. I get what you're building. I'm ready to sign up. And we'll just continue to do that. And there's a market for that. And it's a growing market as long as we believe we're right. And it's just fascinating because everyone's playing all these other games, including the everyone saying bitcoins, the hurdle rate and then telling you to like buy their equity into some like crazy thing. It's just like, yeah, guys, you just don't get it yet, but you will. No, agree with all that. And like you were talking around the the just the gold angle, Michael, like it is something that I've certainly come around on just in terms of gold persisting longer than people think. And the other angle that I've also been iterating and thinking about is like, just this, this notion of like a sound money thesis and the the idea that Bitcoin is looped in with broader crypto is just is completely illogical in from the standpoint of like, if you're assessing purely the, the investment thesis at hand. And so if you're thinking about Bitcoin relative to other crypto assets, I would charitably say other crypto assets are much more akin to venture tech exposure relative to hard money store value type thesis, which Bitcoin and gold represent. And so it's really, you know, in my mind, been a disservice to Bitcoin over the past 10 years, 10 plus years in the sense that it's been looped in from a technology standpoint. And and that's that's why it is looped in, right? Like there is a natural association by technology that people are making between Bitcoin and these other crypto assets. But from an actual investment thesis standpoint, they couldn't be more different. And so I think a, a nice way to, you know, on a go forward basis, articulate Bitcoin's thesis and value prop is associating it more with gold. And and that's also, you know, that's been a tactic in the Tratify world for many years. But I think it's still conflated in the sense that you see Tratify firms embracing crypto as a whole. And again, part of that is this administration speaking to to the entirety of it and not making as clear distinctions between the actual investment thesis at hand. Yes, the technologies are similar, but the actual investment thesis between Bitcoin and other crypto assets is very distinct. And I think instead looping Bitcoin in with gold can make that investment level distinction more clear to folks. So that that's something that we'll have more on to say from the early rider side soon. But I think that that is just going to be, in my mind, a very important theme going forward is like this, this sound money thesis idea as opposed to the broader crypto venture tech sphere. And that that's where all the money is going to go either way. Like you think about who's holding gold today and starting to, you know, allocate. I think one of the there's multiple things I wanted to share, but like one of the, I guess the main components of all the other. So what generally happens in this space is like you end up in a bubble because you have the same people. And maybe it was always how it was supposed to be because you know, in early in Bitcoin, you think people think you're crazy. And so then you have to find your tribe and you have to find the people that are going to help reinforce. It's by the way, why, although like podcasts and and tweets and thumbnails get engagement when you talk about retiring on one Bitcoin or whatever, it's like you kind of find your group that reinforces all of it. And the thing that reinforces reinforcing all of it doesn't do is talk about like the gold camp, because generally people that were that early to Bitcoin didn't find gold. But when you are building businesses and you're out and about, you start to see the the gold thesis where these people are playing. And I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but they are going to do this because you already see tether doing and there's others where you're going to like tokenize gold. You're going to have it trade around. Obviously you have problems with potential counterparty risk, but if you have reputable pieces and like a lot of people will pause it that I'm friends with in like text. I'm trying to explain this. Well, gold has no fundamental value and it's like, well, OK, what is Bitcoin's fundamental value like? Like it's the same trade in the sense that there, there's a finite supply, there have certain properties that make them good money. But like when you look at an abstract of a Bitcoin or you look at an abstract of a gold and if you can move it like there's just, it's a, there's a lot of group think to be like, well, to your point, the sound money thesis, which ties into the second part, which is the majority capitals not trying to 100X or 10X their money. They're trying to preserve their wealth. And so that's where a sound money thesis comes into play and why it makes a logical sense for a lot of wealthy people to park more assets in gold than BTC to start, whether it's liquidity profile, risk profile, whatever it might be. But then the other side is really like where crypto and the pub codes and all this stuff comes into place like people just forgot about how to deliver value. Because think about it like if you guys were wanting to go start a business and you had X amount of money saved, because that's what money does is it provides optionality. So you have X amount of money saved. Well, you wouldn't be in crypto or like some MSTR equivalent that can tend to 100 X because what you need is a steady base and then you're you have value to provide to the world. So you're going to go out and like maintain that. You're not going to deal with the volatility. It's the people that are like literally like, have they forgot how to deliver value? So they're only angle is like, I need to 10X my wealth. This is where the nihilism of like Robin, the Robin Hoodification world and the apps of everyone gambling. It's like it doesn't make sense to put all that capital at risk trying to get the next Bitcoin or better Bitcoin if you just have other ways to make money outside of like speculating on the thing. And there's just like this whole. And so that sounding money thesis is going to be where the winners play, and it's ultimately going to be how people preserve their well. And this is somewhat related, but that's why it's so funny to me to see these altcoin treasury companies crop up because it's like you're not even reading the room in terms of like the thesis or the play here. Like these other crypto assets are not reserve assets, right? Like they're not risk mitigated assets in the sense of being an asset without an issuer or, you know, having actual decentralized qualities that make them a credible or enforce A credible monetary policy that that gives it those qualities of being more risk off and a reserve asset. And so like, it's funny to me that you see these things crop up because like if you look at Tether, for example, like what are they holding in their reserve? They're not holding Ethereum, they're not holding Tron even. They're holding U.S. Treasuries, Bitcoin, gold, I think some land. They're holding actual reserve assets that have less counterparty risk, less execution risk, no management risks, etcetera. Those are the qualities that make a good reserve asset. So I think there's just this massive misunderstanding and part of it to your point is the, the nihilism and the, the searching for the 10 to 100 X as opposed to the steadier, you know, 20 to 40% CAGR over a long time horizon. So there's just a massive disconnect in, in terms of these different offerings and and products in the market. But there was another regulation related piece I want to bring up around the SEC and a new rule instituted last week around the ETFs. So as I pull that up, this was the first headline here, quiet SEC rule shift news, crypto ETFs closer to the mainstream. And then I have another link here. But maybe, Michael, if you want to give like just an overview of of kind of what this means, the misconceptions around it in terms of like, you know, your average Joe being able to contribute Bitcoin into an ETF for the reverse take it out and why this is really for the APS and institutional allocators to be able to take advantage of this. But maybe just I want to give it a high level. Here yeah I mean at the highest level my understanding because there's an article from Eric Balkanis in Bloomberg it's articulating that the ETFs have been kind of like treated a second tier ETFs by Wall Street in terms of the create redeems from underlying versus having to go in cash and cash in cash out. It's, it is, it's inefficient and but also not what traditional markets have. So the, the reality is this only impacts broker dealers and the authorized participants. When you're coming in to bring in large lots of BTC, rather than have to bring in cash, execute and then move into custody, you can be able to participate and bring in large lots of BTC and similar on the way out. Again, this only impacts institutional investors, specifically around the broker dealers and authorized participants. I think what's interesting here is that there is been no shortage of demand and interest on the conflation of how this impacts individuals. And we've shared it a lot, but I'll share it again it I'd make a bet we're at least 24 months, if not longer away from individuals being able to deliver in kind and specifically take delivery in delivery in kind probably is a lot easier because it's a one, it's a one way flow. But to take it back out, there's a logistical process because you have 3 levels of counterparties between the underlying custodian, the intermediary broker that you bought it from, and then obviously the sponsor, which would be BlackRock for most people. And to take delivery of that is from an OFAC compliance, OFEC sanctions slash compliance, KYC, the, it's just, it's a, it's a heavy process and these individuals wouldn't be prepared for it. But the other thing is that there's a lot of interest in it because there's a lot of interest in individuals feeling from a security perspective, among other things, they want to park their assets in a Bitcoin ETF, which is just like kind of crazy because if you think about it, I don't know, it's kind of shocking that there's a lot of notable people that have studied this space for a very long time and believe that like BlackRock and Coinbase holding larger and larger positions in this assets. Good for it. It's like they their whole thesis, they didn't understand what gold is and then where gold failed because you can hold 2 ideas in the same vein. And that like self custody won't be the standard for every person on every to a part of the planet. While at the same point, Coinbase shouldn't be where all the assets at. And that's this gap we play in and part of. So anyway, maybe I don't know if you wanted to touch on the honor Bitcoin trust or where we started that, but we're just kind of like living in the future at this point and the markets naturally coming around. But yeah, it's just, it's kind of sad to see that a lot of people want to just park their assets and the ETF's they don't have to deal with like security risk or counterparty risk. Yeah. I mean this that's it's a notion that we've actually sort of heard anecdotally really ever since the the ETFs went live over a year ago. And just this past week, in light of, you know, an unfortunate story where a couple lost over 7 Bitcoin that they were managing self custody. They got scammed effectively by downloading a, an app scam app on, on the iOS store, which is, is crazy to think. But the, the fallout from that was like this recognition that maybe it is kind of crazy that we've been dogmatic about self custody in the Bitcoin space historically. And maybe it's not for everyone and maybe it's not for your entire allocation. And you know, even further along those lines, have heard more calls for like, yeah, it would be great if I could just transfer my Bitcoin in kind to an ETF like structure. And you alluded to it, But funny enough, we have this product, this product exists. It's the on ramp Bitcoin trust where you can contribute in kind to an ETF like structure. It's it's not an ETF per SE, but it's a grantor trust model, which is what the ETFs are. They're just not exchanged or our product is not exchange traded as it's a private placement vehicle, but it is, it is exactly what what clearly the there is market demand for if people are selling their Bitcoin to buy the ETF. Well, and obviously a, a tax advantage way of doing that would just be contributing the Bitcoin in kind to a vehicle like this. And so we're going to get louder about this, but the all that is to say that this product does exist. It's the Hundred Bitcoin Trust. But one thing to touch on with that individual who sadly lost their Bitcoin is it's not the first time they actually, yeah, back in 2020 lost all of or a lot of their Bitcoin in the Voyager. They had their assets parked there. And so, you know, it's naturally two things. You can't trust single custodians or, you know, maybe you the majority of the market is thinking, hey, I can trust Coinbase or Fidelity. Maybe they're a little bit less risky than Voyager. And then on the other side, OK, then I have to self custody it myself. And because of that, you know, there, there are challenges of people who, you know, think that they understand how they're custodying their coins and using best practices, but ultimately aren't actually completely there. And so there's just isn't necessarily right now the middle ground for the majority of the people outside of products like on ramp unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah, Brian, you were referencing the trust and did a good job, but it was like it's only half the equation. The other half was literally the underlying custodian, right? Yeah, so. It's better. It's better for multiple, multiple angles, tax implications and also the underlying custody. Yeah, it's really fascinating. I mean this it really a lot of times it comes up is how early we are. But this is visceral feeling of how early we are because it's not well understood like what Bitcoin is, is the fact that it is just data, right? And you don't want data at a centralized entity generally normally like it for anything because we keep seeing all these hacks with people's PII. But then if it's all your money and all your wealth, well, you definitely don't want it at a single custodian, like full stop, independent of like the game theory with gold. But then the the alternative has always been just we'll park all the data at your house. And it's like, well, that kind of becomes a problem that everyone knows that it's at my house. But somehow all of this is still taboo. And that's again, how early we are. Because like if you explain this to somebody like like 1/3 grader, like it'd be like, well, yeah, that kind of makes sense. But we just have too much try. Like it's the same thing with Bitcoin's thesis versus try, you know, other assets. But the price in the market will do do do the work. Yeah. So maybe you want to switch gears a little bit. It wouldn't actually want. To go to my third link, it's, it's related to the ETF. So if we're sticking on this topic, Yep. I got you. Hold on. I don't know. So this one I thought was fascinating. There are This is a really good article. There are about 3 good charts in here. One of them is it's highly unusual for an ETF to develop an option market of this magnitude, let alone ever or let alone eight months after launch. So I bit is now the fifth most traded options market or options ETF outside of SPYQQQ, IWM and GLD, which is very notable as the ETFs allowed for in kind distributions and contributions. They also allowed a 10X increase in the amount of options volume that participants can have. And then #2 if you scroll up just a little bit, it's the ETFUS Bitcoin ETF's grab a bigger share in crypto trading. So the US Bitcoin ETF's over the total stock Market Volume is almost half of all the volume now. And then finally the the last chart which really drives home this point is just like the the Bitcoin dollars trade more concentrated in US hours. And if you look at this chart, you know, back in 2021, the amount of, you know, volume that was traded right around the market open, which is when all hedge funds etcetera really trade because there's the most volume in the market. It was maybe 5-6 percent. And now ever since the the start of this year, it's almost 10%. So that just tells us that there is increasingly more institutions that are interested in Bitcoin, the more options traded will just, you know, somewhat reduce its volatility. And as you know, kind of the increased liquidity and you know, price all associated with these markets is just going to drive more market participants. It's just it's unfortunate that most of the trading is increasingly going to the ETFs. But just thought I would flag this as it's a really interesting data point an article. Yeah, this is, this is some fantastic data. I hadn't seen this, but yeah, I think it's a broader sign of of maturation market structure and and greater liquidity etcetera. And really the, the broader point is like we haven't seen, we still haven't seen like what these ETFs can do to a market. I think would be my broader take away of like whether it's this data that continues to to trend upwards or it's, you know, if you just look at the banks, wire houses, etcetera, who have actually turned on access to their underlying clients to these things, like we're still in the very early innings there. So to me it's a broader signal of like we haven't even while these are the most successful product launches of all time, we still haven't even really seen all that they can do from you know an options perspective as well as just a a broader access perspective. So all all very bullish for just the productization of the of the asset. One thing this is an optimistic take, but I think also likely is we'll see flow outside of this once people realize what they have. Like the best mental model I have is like when you buy cat when you bought Bitcoin on cash app and then either built up a material of balance and you you needed to get it off there, or you just like, you know, get forced to understand what it is because the price moves or you're just naturally curious person. And I think whether it's the market forces requiring certain ETS via competitive nature to, you know, leverage some of the things Brian talked about on the honor of Bitcoin trust or just moving out. The the other thing is that's the beauty. It comes up a lot around like, well, what happens when the it's always come up about like on ramp is like what happens if the banks start custody? It's like what happens? They're not like doing multi institutional custody goes against everything that they would ever do. And then also what happens if the ETF providers allow for income redemption? It's like, well, yeah, that's great too. But where does it go? Like it's all set to Coinbase. So you're going to leave Coinbase and go back to Coinbase or you can leave Fidelity, go back to Fidelity. Like people would be leaving because they're looking to level up the underlying. And so that's where we naturally step in. So all directions in my viewpoint to like Bitcoin, Bitcoin going up and then the natural version of people are going to want to diversify their custodial risk, but not in a way where you split 33% per custodian. You just split it across, you know, multiple custodians. And if somebody goes down, your assets are 100% secured. Yeah, this is what I view as the Mount Gox of, you know, institutional trading adoption, right? Like Mount Gox back in the day, I think had 80% of total Bitcoin traded volume. And this probably for institutional players has at least 80%, if not more. And I think it's just because that's, you know, Mount Gox was what retail investors could really understand wrap their head around back in 2014. And, you know, now this is just like what institutional investors can wrap their head around. Brian. There's another tweet that was the link right ahead of this too, which I thought was really telling as well that, you know, this is the first iteration of what will be many different institutional slash Wall Street products, which was, it's hard to be a needle mover for BlackRock at over 12 trillion in total assets. But digital assets have been the story. And it essentially goes into an amazing stat 75% of the investors who bought IBIT were first time customers of BlackRock and BlackRock is the number one player in the ETF game. So one, if you launch a Bitcoin product, even if you are #1 in your total field, you're going to level up. And then #2 it's not just like Bitcoin in its own unique, unique world. Like 27% of them went off, went on to buy another share, or went on to buy another iShares ETF. So it's just like how BlackRock increasingly gained share outside of their Bitcoin product. And I think this is just the key data point that every single bank financial institution is really looking at because, you know, all the banks know that they have the data that their customers, at least younger demographic like us, are increasingly allocating out of their bank account to go into Coinbase Cash App, whatever it is. As well as just looking at the stat that you can grow not just revenue from having I bet as the most profitable product that BlackRock offers, but also grow your revenue across all of your other products. And lastly, this is not just like BlackRock and financial institutions in particular, but we've seen Bitcoin be kind of a hack for every single company that really adopts it and ingrains it and everything they do, whether it's, you know, Peony Lane from accepting Bitcoin and really, you know, making that a core part of their business model to, you know, ETF issuers like BlackRock. Yeah, there, that's that's a great point. Randomly other you can attach it to anything like good friend Peter McCormick and and is it real bread Bedford Is that is it just real Bedford but real Bedford or whatever happened recently with the Shake Shack or hey, you know, Bitcoin can make, you know, securities cool again and you can, you know, launch treasury companies. But the other thing not to bring it back, I would I just feel compelled to is bringing it back to gold is this is where we've seen a lot and we're making, we'll be have some interesting investments announced on the. There's just a natural thing, whether it's Robin Hood aggregators, fintechs, banks, ETF providers that are looking for new clients and new trading vehicles, new ways to take spreads. And to your point, Liam, like so the market saturated across the traditional 6040. You've seen alternatives pop up. But if there's a growing theme around this sound money strategy and debasement and the the price is the ultimate arbiter, right? Because if gold trades at $1800 a try oz instead of 34 or 5000, nobody cares. But if it's moving. And people understand and know of gold, they're going to demand the same thing from their financial service partner. And so that's where you see a lot of these fintechs have been tapped out and they're trying to differentiate. And that's where integrating Bitcoin and then also specifically gold will start to bring us different client demographic. And then again, it goes back to how it's kind of like nonsensical to believe that somebody just going to like leapfrog, like everyone's just going to leapfrog the thing that's been around for 5000 years and a ball into BTC. If it's the same trade, like if the trade, if they're going directional through sound money, it's going to partially go through gold. And so that's the reason, again, why as the markets get repriced for, you know, Bitcoin and gold and everything being credit, you're going to just naturally see gold get inserted along with Bitcoin into basically every financial institution and product across the world. Yeah. And the other component there too, not to gloss over is like the demographic or age distinction. Like I think that that is what a lot of people miss when they think about this transitionary period of, of Bitcoin becoming money for the, you know, where the vast majority of capital sits today is with people that are, are older, older in age. And so the, the, the chasm or the gap for them to deeply understand Bitcoin to the point where they want, you know, 90% plus Bitcoin exposure is it is just a much larger gap. And so there's going to be this time where there's a transition happening and it's the sound money thesis playing out. And that it, there's going to be an interplay between gold and Bitcoin and whether it's, you know, 75 gold, 25 Bitcoin for a little extra upside, but less volatility. Like these products are, are just beginning to, to exist and hit the market. I think we covered on the show a few weeks ago, but Cantor made an announcement around a gold Bitcoin product. I think there was one or two others. And so we're just, I think, early innings of people realizing what this transitionary period is going to look like. Everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. There's no shortage of content to cover all things related to investments and Bitcoin infrastructure being currently built. I did want to give a quick shout out to a piece of research that early writers announced this morning. Early writers reckoning with the cost of the new cost of capital. And it really highlights a really great tweet from Luke Groman referencing the reason why FAR coin has values fundamentally because the underlying risk free rate of treasuries being insolvent. I think it's a really great piece that explains where we're heading with Bitcoin as the true corporate rate for any kind of capital investment. And then how early writers are really pioneering and leading the space in that way. Encourage you to check it out early writers.com research as well as reach out. And please don't forget to subscribe, like and leave us comments. We appreciate any notes, feedback, or thoughts on how we can be better incorporate different segments into the show. All right, have a good rest of your week. We'll be back with some big announcements later this week on Thursday and Friday. Hope you enjoy the rest of the show. I was going to switch gears to our other favorite topics, stable coins. We haven't even talked stables yet on this pod, which is a rarity for us. But Nick Carter put out a good piece late last week talking about stables and, and free banking. And, and Nick's been on this beat for many years. I would, I would say he's sort of a quasi stable coin czar of sorts, unofficial. And what he's talking about specifically in this piece was, I think for a while there's been, you know, people that are anti crypto or anti stable coins in general have landed on this thesis of like, oh, it's going to be a disaster because it's akin to free banking in the US. What Nick is walking through here is like that comparisons, not actually rational now that we have the Genius Act in the sense that there's very clear rules and regulations for how these stable coins need to work. They need to be backed by U.S. Treasuries. Whereas in the, you know, the Wildcat banking era of the US, which people often cite, that wasn't the case at all, right? Like there was no rules in terms of what needed to back a given form of money that any, any Wildcat bank could issue. And so he's just drawing a distinction in terms of, particularly now that we have the Genius Act, it's like it's actually not very akin to a free banking area era. There are very stringent rules and regulations around what these stable coins need to look like. That being said, related to this, a tweet from Nick the other day around. Yeah, yeah, go ahead there. And then we can go to the yield. Yeah, maybe going back to that piece, did you read the whole thing? Yeah. So I, I encourage everyone, if you want to see how this world's going to play out. It's not direct, but it because I, I was going to reach out to see if Nick wants to come on here or last trade to talk about this. I think Nick doesn't fully believe Bitcoin can become money And that's what this piece is missing and and like to to really bring it because I think in my opinion, this is like 70% of the way there and explaining. Not only was these I've been using free ranking loosely when it comes to digital asset firms specifically like Binance, because it's more repute. It's reputation based driven more than anything, because not only does it have to do a genius act, but the majority of free banking when it worked had not only like a very small percentage of actual assets sitting there. You had a small percentage of like liquid assets, You had other liabilities, whether it was like gold, equities, homes, land that sat there. But then you also had the system. He references Scotland and Canada as the two examples because you needed natural clearing houses because it's all competitive forces. Actually really a beautiful system when you when you read this piece and understand that the clearing houses ultimately allowed for other banks to redeem the claims if somebody got too far out of their position and kept everyone effectively honest. That's kind of like the multi institution format of of of that. It's like if you start to look like you're exposed or may not be able to fulfill the obligation or your jurisdiction may have problems, you can actually take those assets out. And it's also what keeps that part not having those problems because you can't ever take the assets from a custodian and multi institution. But he also broke down why didn't work in the US, which I didn't know, and it explained that there's a lot more embedded in here that's to be read separately about just the different states. It was actually never had a fighting chance to succeed in free banking because there was a lot of problems, whether it was like post civil war and obligations from southern states to the fragmentation from each state. And then the Wildcat banking, as Brian said, referencing that a lot of these banks were just stood up to, to fail ultimately to rug the, the, the counterparty. And so point in all of that is that this is where I think this all goes on a long enough time horizon is that the central points will have reputations along with liabilities and assets that will be trusted by the market. The market will have clearing houses to accept or redeem those assets to make sure that, you know, if there was a bank run that people are solvent. If they're not solvent, the market will clear them in a fast and transparent way. And so I thought this was a real fascinating piece. And then I think his main point was just to there's a conflation around against stablecoins and free banking, which is just fundamentally different because stablecoins are just backed even pre genius act, they're they're pretty much backed by treasuries. And you know, now we have a different thing. I guess the Luna stuff is kind of where he references you. Can it really exist now post Luna a post genius with like a Luna type product or business. I, I haven't read this whole thing, but I kind of disagree. I kind of think that we're going to go not towards free banking, but just money warehouses, meaning, you know, you have a place where you can park your gold back in the day and all of your gold is held there. It's not necessarily relent out and there is just a, you know, fee that you're willing to pay in order to hold your gold. And that's kind of similar to the, you know, where we're going to go in the future of, you know, all of your Bitcoin is there and you know, it's just held by multiple different institutions and can be go can trade in and out of that, but won't be re hypothecated or lent away. Well, we won't go there. I'm sorry to share because people are going to naturally need like the reason why we won't go there is because whether it's gold or Bitcoin, you won't be able to transact, whether it's 10 to 30 years on chain in that. So you're naturally going to have whether it's like it'll ultimately be a confluence of different things, but think about E cash as an example. You'll have certain claim on the underlying the same way the gold will naturally have some proxy that will be traded and the note will be recognized. And then on a long enough time horizon as the price right now people pay for custody and multi institution because the price of Bitcoin still has 10 to 100 X to run. As that price naturally goes and financial products come about, people will demand some kind of actual yield because it'll determine there'll be more market structure, more things, more businesses on the balance sheet. And so that's why you get to it. It's an inefficient way to manage an economy if all the assets got to sit sit there because what's the claim on it? What are people using? Yeah, that's, that's fair. Maybe it would be a a very niche thing that is is essentially like holding your gold in a Swiss ball. Yeah. Well, the other component of this that I wanted to bring up was was sort of related to what you're saying, like all around reputation and trust building. And well, how do you differentiate in this world where everyone has these stringent rules on what backs a stable coin? And I think we, we talked about this maybe a month or two ago around like, well, they can't offer yield per SE. There's going to be workarounds for this. And so this is what Nick has a tweet here. It's pretty funny that the bank lobby tried to make stable coins an inferior product by legally prohibiting yield. And the issuers immediately found a way around that. And so he's quote tweeting a headline from PayPal. This quarter. We added the ability to earn rewards for our stablecoin on PayPal and demo and announced the expanded availability of PYUSD on seller and auction blockchain. So I think this is early stages of of these workarounds that you're going to see around going back to just the differentiation and the reputation around these things. That's what I think will will at least to some extent mirror the free banking world of like, well, how are you going to differentiate? How are you going to pay your rewards or your quasi yield to your holders of your stablecoin? Do you Scroll down a little bit? It's funny on this, there's a Bryant Armstrong tweet. I think it was here. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's on the. If you go back up, if you click on that one, yeah. And then Scroll down, it's the same thing. But he breaks down how they can offer like Scroll down to. I think it's like the maybe it's not there, but it's effectively like Brian Armstrong saying the same thing. It's like we don't pass rewards or the rewards because we use circle. Circle can't pass the yield, so a Coinbase can pass the rewards. But this was the theme I think we've been talking about for a while and that the market forces are just going to in competitive forces are going to require these these entities to figure out ways to differentiate. And to Brian's point, like the clearinghouse ultimately is this is all digitally native. Now, if you like read next piece, you can see how the missing gap because they talked about is just effectively like that. This is all digital. So now it's the same kind of concept of SVB and like having a bank run almost instant instantly is you'll, you're going to naturally see these companies start to do certain things like this. They're going to be free floating on assets that will trade. Everything being tokenized is just going to like extremely accelerate all this because then a bank's going to have those assets on balance sheet. It's going to get like again to the Wild West. And then that's really where the free banking comes in because it comes back to reputations and assets and liabilities and then ultimately being able to clear if they can make whole on whatever notes that they lent out that are claims against their underlying balance sheet. Is Ethereum Wall Street's invisible backbone? BM, I think you shared this link, but we're going to tokenize everything. But is this already the case? Is Ethereum Wall Street's backbone? I just thought it was, I had to put out these, you know, unfortunate It it all ties back to Michael's hairdresser too. And you know, don't, don't buy Ethereum, don't buy whatever else out there. But right now, I think there was like AUSA today piece like why XRP is the most valuable asset that you should put your money in. Why Ethereum? This Ethereum piece is like why it's Wall Street's invisible backbone was the on the front page of CNBC. And then there was another one that was the front page of the Wall Street Journal just kind of going into tequila drugs and torture the entire the spending binge of two crypto Bros that ended in jail. So essentially what you see from continued the mainstream is just the conflation of Bitcoin with all those other Bitcoins out there, as well as just the fact that Bitcoin is the same thing as crypto and everybody that uses it is just a financial nihilist and is just, you know, not a reputable person. We're just going to see kind of more of this is Bitcoin kind of comes back into the mainstream again. And that's kind of what what we do here is try to educate a little bit more on what Bitcoin actually is. It's some money, properties and how it's just completely different than everything else. Yeah, and some people are taking note. We have this post from Tim Draper proclaiming his hopes to raise a fund all in Bitcoin, invested in Bitcoin and have start-ups pay their employees and suppliers in Bitcoin with all the accounting done on the blockchain with smart contracts as insight. Michael Orlean, I don't know which one of you saw this one first, but just interesting parallels with with what we've already pioneered at early riders raising a fund in Bitcoin, denominating everything we do in Bitcoin, which is also now been popularized via Bitcoin being the hurdle rate. Any any thoughts on on this announcement from Tim? Yeah, this was shared. I think it was credit to Chase. You see that first tag popped on my radar this morning or yesterday morning. I think there's a lot embedded in here. Ultimately, you know, it's just kind of like he's probably coming at it from different angles, thinking about everything on chain because he started really strong and then finishes finishes with everything being on the blockchain with our contracts and auditing. I think there's two aspects that stand out to me. One is most people think like if you think about Bitcoin denominator Bitcoin as a horror rate and from a venture perspective, it's it's not tenable or it can't be done because of Bitcoins kegger. And I've been putting together like thoughts because I eventually have to write something and like, well, this is one of them. Is ultimately like the reason why people shouldn't and just hold spot Bitcoin or try to don't believe you can make more Bitcoin in an investment perspective is is fundamentally just a lack of a imagination, but a lack of like being able to deliver and think about value, and that's OK. They should just hold the spot Bitcoin, but from a very first principle perspective, like the way you make more Bitcoin is by delivering more value to the world. And so we talk about it a lot of like we're value investors in the truest sense that we invest in things that deliver value to the world because they will naturally accrete more Bitcoin via different formats. And this is how on earth was built, spending my own Personal Capital on the business, because I believe that I would make more Bitcoin via equity and enterprise value, but then also returning dividends back to myself and anybody that had equity in the business. And so that's the second part is like, well, how do you spot gaps that can grow that way and fundamentally believe that unless you're a builder, you can't necessarily, you can't actually be an allocator. That's kind of like taboo today. But you can go back and look at like the best entrepreneurs and there was a natural version of allocation that existed while they were building the business. Because when you're building, you're spotting gaps and you're iterating and learning. And this doesn't get talked about enough, but there's great examples. The most recent one I've been reading about is like Steve Jobs in Pixar. You know, Steve Jobs like acquired Pixar, sold it one of the like largest company to the one of the largest companies. Disney's. It's a cornerstone. He had one of the largest positions. I think he had the largest position when he sold that stake to to Disney. But it's like, how do you spot something like that? Well, you naturally have to be building and allocating in the space view of your time. And then you get to see computer graphics and those things. And you've seen this with Bezos, had a very material position in Google, exited for billions of dollars early in the 2000s. Who else is out there? There was a couple. There's a good, there's a lot of anecdotes like this, but I think it just gets fundamentally misunderstood that like if everyone's looking at the same things, well, then it looks impossible to be able to deliver more capital or Bitcoin back. But if you're actively building and growing, as the market's growing, you start to see, and this is part of the discussion, we've been talking about gold and some investments we're going to be announcing publicly. You start to be like, oh, aha, like I see what they saw because they were in the middle of it working with their partners, seeing the market develop versus people just come in and pitching all these things that everyone's looking at. It's kind of like the definition of what's obvious is obviously wrong. That's what everyone's playing in this world right now because they're obvious. They're just obviously sitting there and they're, I think of it as playing defense versus playing offense, which is what we're doing. I would second that as well. And this ties out to a piece that we put out this morning, reckoning with the new cost of capital, diving into exactly this. So kind of taking a step back, Tim Draper is well known for buying almost 30,000 Bitcoin at around $632 per coin after the Silk Road Bitcoin was seized today. That would be worth I think like almost $3 billion. So, you know, that's naturally one of the best investments that has been made. He this really feels that he's invested over $2 billion into the venture ecosystem and he naturally feels that, OK, Bitcoin is this thing. It's it's unclear if he still holds it today or not. That has increased significantly. And and that's never to say like you don't ever put your Bitcoin to use because as Michael just went into, if you have a good idea of vision, know how to execute, there is a way to outperform Bitcoin. But it's just understanding that, you know, unless you actually see and feel that opportunity viscerally that you have the chance to outperform Bitcoin, you can just, you know, keep that as your hurdle rate. And so accordingly, I think that he probably has this feeling that all of his investments that underperformed Bitcoin, likely he should have just held that and at least incorporated Bitcoin as a, you know, reserve asset for his companies or etc, is to, you know, ways to better perform better, outperform Bitcoin. And then naturally, his investors will also feel the fact that a lot of them likely are deciding, you know, do I go into Tim Draper's fund with Coinbase and maybe other, you know, he. Calls them Web 3 and crypto companies or do do I just hold it myself? And so we're increasingly seeing this just from the business perspective as Michael mentioned of you know, you don't get out of bed to create on ramp or whatever other business if you don't actually think you can get yourself on Bitcoin because otherwise naturally you would be better off just holding the Bitcoin and then the the LP's and his fund. I don't know if they've already started to do it or or if they will, but they will just not understand like why would I allocate to a fund like this if it's not going to actually outperform Bitcoin? You know, there's there's everything that's related to both the US treasuries that are fundamentally no longer risk free and just the fact that Bitcoin only has a scarce finite amount. But ultimately this is kind of how all capital formation is going to occur that, you know, either just maintaining your cost of capital as Bitcoin itself or trying to outperform it will only be the the two natural angles that you know every business and capital allocator will move towards. Yeah. And a, and a corollary to this is, you know, a concept that we've talked about a bunch is, is doing more with less leveraging deflationary tools. So this was I think Mike, you brought this tweet from Greg Eisenberg that that speaks to sort of this other element of, of this new world of building not only leveraging Bitcoin as your hurdle rate and your capital asset, but also leveraging deflationary tools to do more with less. So I thought that was a nice, nice tie into everything in the report that Liam just shared. Yeah, it's a great call. The example of when you like break it down to make it simple and dependent of Bitcoin, just the notion of increasing the cost of capital increases the the OR increases the efficiency and the allocation strategy on anybody because now the capital cost is higher Bitcoins kegger and then ultimately when an entrepreneur, so then who gets the entrepreneur is fewer and far between. So you're more discerning there than when the entrepreneur gets that capital, their risk free rate, whatever it might be, has to be more careful and discerning. So then it ties into this part which is completely on the other side. But this is all like, you know, integrated into how we think about early writers is his quote about this is a generational moment to start a company and still market share from billion dollar incumbents, most billion dollar companies are adding AI the same way Blockbuster added streaming slowly, defensively, committee approved baby steps. And and there's a great tweet here. Ideally we'll link to in the show notes. But the core here is just thinking about whether you're searching on like, you know, social and you see like a, you know, a piece of clothing or wherever how people buy. Like think about how crazy and archaic like big box stores are now to go and to buy anything like it's just the the future is here. It's not evenly distributed and these companies are are basically dead and they don't know it yet because the best people don't even want to work with these companies because ultimately they're moving the fastest, they're moving the fastest independently. The company can't keep up and now it costs effectively nothing to start a business via like SAS based tools, AI, especially if you either hold some Bitcoin or take a small percentage of Bitcoin to like R&D and and do AV. One of a product doesn't take $1,000,000 pre seed. Maybe it takes a Bitcoin total if that. And so it's just a fundamental different landscape. And that's goes back into the whole name of like the early riders. It's at the end of the day, it's going to be the early riders that are going to like win and rebuild the world, not the incumbents, because the incumbents are the incumbents for a reason. And there's too much inertia to move that battleship until ultimately the best people are going to be the early adopters, that kind of wave. So it's just a it's truly an exciting time. And I think when when we go to some of these other things, I was hoping we finished on the optimistic note, but there will be some pessimism in the in the status of society as well that we'll share. Yeah, this this line from the tweet stuck out to me because you could really just swap in Bitcoin here for AI like the prime Windows 12 to 18 months. Eventually incumbents will be Bitcoin first from a a treasury or capital preservation perspective in the same way desktop companies became mobile 1st and it will be harder to compete. And so the longer you wait to adopt Bitcoin as a reserve asset, the harder it will be for you to compete against your peers that do decide to do that. And it's worth calling out just to say like Bitcoin's just a tool because it's a part of the whole toolkit, because I would much rather give somebody that understands what is written here doll. And they were going to have a dollar treasury and go and build a world class business and accrete more dollars that can eventually get swept into Bitcoin or just be held in dollars if it's good enough. So if the allocator is the ultimate, the entrepreneur is the ultimate allocator versus somebody that says, I, you know, love Bitcoin, hold it forever and then don't necessarily understand how to use these tools, understand how to execute, have a great idea. So it's just a component that's added into the confluence of these other tailwinds like AI, the notion of just all these other deflationary tools like SAS based technology where you can spin up businesses, you can live globally, you don't have to put everybody in San Francisco and pay insane real estate and insane salaries. It's just another aspect of it. And it just really reminds me of like we talked about last week on the last trade with Arch. It's a complete fallacy. And please don't get bought into it because I'm 100% confident of this is just because you build a big Bitcoin treasury doesn't mean you're going to build world class businesses or you're going to be able to go acquire world class businesses. And you have to have a brain, You have to have operational chops. And if you're saying like we're going to build Bitcoin native financial services, historically, nobody comes out the gate and builds innovative financial services without blowing themselves up in Bitcoin. So like you need both. You need the Bitcoin war chest and balance sheet and the great ideas. And if you have to pick one, you have to have the great ideas and be able to execute because money's relatively cheap, even Bitcoin capital, there's no shortage of people that will invest that understand Bitcoin. And so again, super early, similar to reminds you the ETF stuff. But if you have the vision and ability like to allocate right now is a is a crucial time. Yeah. Well said. And you said you wanted to end positively, but we're going to end. We're going to end on this this chart, which went a little viral over the weekend, estimated percentage of 30 year olds who are both married and homeowners from 1950 to 2025. Can you start on the bottom one first? I feel like it would this one got the the the virality, but this is where it all starts, right? Like what we're looking at as a chart. So it's US medium household income versus medium home price. And it's just one of the most insane charts, if this this may have taken the top, except for the next one that that Brian was talking about Will as it shows 1970 and the disparity between income and then price. You know, there was something there, but it was it wasn't an insane gap. And from 70 to where we sit today, it's just kind of like insane. It goes any if you have any boomer friends, family, I try to gaslight you that everything is the same for us as it was for them. It's just an absolute line. This is the easiest way. It's like wages have not kept up with everything that the cost of any asset, specifically real estate and real estate, for better or worse, just happens to be directly correlated to security of, you know, from a societal perspective, the security of a family, security to feel like you have optionality to have children, to not move. And so that ties into the chart that Brian was was bringing up, which is ultimately a chart showing the estimated percentage of 30 year olds were both married and homeowners from 1950 to 2025. And this looks like an Ethereum chart against Bitcoin. It's like absolutely insane where it shows a little bit over 50% in 1950 were 50% a little over were 30 year olds that were both married and homeowners and today where it shows it looks like 12 1/2% maybe less which is just insane. Staggering, staggering stuff. And and to your point, like strikes at the, the core issue here. So don't be, don't be gaslit into thinking like, Oh yeah, everything's just the, you know, the same as it was 50 years ago. You guys need to work harder etcetera. No, the the the playing field has has fundamentally shifted as a result of continued debasement of the money. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if Liam, if you have anything but the the thing that's kind of like, I guess sickening here is there's two parts. 1 is that you don't just reverse this. There was a tweet by, I forgot where it was, but it's like there's no, it takes a Black Swan to reverse. This isn't like built into the like fabric of society at this point. And then that ties into the antagonistic view. And the problem I see with the treasury companies is the way you get out of this is you got to dig yourself out. Like there's no, there's no shortcuts. You have to be able to find what you can preserve your wealth and you have to be able to produce value into the world. And then you have to, you know, continue forward. You don't you, there's not, no, there's not a one shot that'll get you out for maybe one out of 101 out of 1000 or a million. Somebody's going to go buy the next pub, go and get the next 100X or crypto coin or, you know, Super Bowl odds. But the reality is that it's it's a slow and steady preserve your wealth. And there's one thing that can do that we all agree on. And it's not buying some super volatile asset and then hoping to God you get there. Because that ties into the whole nihilism and ties into why these things develop communities and have picked up so much steam. And so, yeah, it's pretty sad. Liam, anything. Liam's rich, She doesn't give a Liam's rich, she doesn't give a shit. Nobody's coming to save you. You just have to. You just got to work hard yourself. Liam's in the Hamptons right now, just hanging out, you know, like he's, he's not worried about percentage of homeowners. He's like, he gots his home, he's married, like he's good to go. He does not care about the the common man. Not true, otherwise I I wouldn't be doing this podcast. I know I'm just, I'm just joking around, but Liam does always have a nice background. Well, gents, I think it's a, it's a good place to leave it. Work hard, produce value, preserve your value in a harder form of money. It's really simple when you lay it out like that. But thanks for joining us and we'll see you guys again next week. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the show. If you found the information valuable, please share the episode with a friend or leave a rating on your favorite podcast app. All the links we discussed in today's show will be in the show notes inside your podcast app. Before we finish, a quick reminder that Onramp Media is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and nothing should be construed as investment or legal advice. Regardless of where you are on your Bitcoin journey, we'd love to hear from you. Visit onrampbitcoin.com/contact to schedule a consultation with one of our private Client Advisors.
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